I wish evolution was true ... because I would have Wings

[River Jordan]

BELEIVE ME THE FLUE VIRUS will NOT change into a hippopotamus.. or some other specie.'
that's not the reason we get a flue shot...

Well that's good, 'cause no one ever said it was.

the reason is with in the same specie their are different types ..

what type of human are you.. do you have long legs or short ones.. in school were you better at lunch or physical exercise..

were you good at jumping or climbing over things ..

species can also change .. if all of a sudden you decided to be better at lunch than physical exercise You wouldn't turn into a pig but you might start to be a little chunky around the hams .. and you would be come more easy to control than some one more energetic.

So how does the influenza virus change? Does God make it change, or is something else going on?

 

[Mr.Bride]

Powered flight is not in the Bible, so I guess that's "of the devil"?

"Then God said "Let the land produce vegetation"." Sounds like evolution to me.

I didn't say what's not in the Bible is of the devil. I said of God. And powered flight is in the Bible.

Who caused the land to produce vegetation???

 

[River Jordan]

Who caused the land to produce vegetation???

God did. God let it happen, just as it is written.

 

[Pelaides]

http://science.howstuffworks.com/zoology/all-about-animals/animal-camouflage2.htm

Here, this gives the basics in why animals are able to change colors.

The website below has a more technical explanation for why the artic fox changes color, but you would have to pay to see the entire text. But, if you read the abstract you should get the gist of what the text says.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0196978105002688

So according to this text animals(once thought of as dumb)can manipulate their hormonal reactions at will and change their color?Why cant humans do the same?I dont believe it.But maybe animals are not as stupid as we thought.

 

[horsecamp]

Well that's good, 'cause no one ever said it was.
d
So how does the influenza virus change? Does God make it change, or is something else going on?

perhaps the influenza mutations are do to sin ..

God has designed caterpillars to turn into butterflies yet there the same specie.

 

[KingJ]

Ever since mankind saw birds in the air he has wanted to fly.

If evolution is true men should definitely have wings by now.

Or at least be sprouting the origins of some little wings on his shoulders .

If only we kept our dna .

This makes me think of my biggest question on evolution. Where are all the missing links?

If we look at the lotto, we have 13 983 816 different combinations off 6 numbers between 1-49. So where in the universe are all the missing links?

We should not have a society of humans that have so many similarities! We should all be completely different. Our noses are miraculously in the centre of our face. How did that evolve there? Our hears are on the side of our head. Our arms are equal length. Our bum is well positioned so we don't drop feces on ourselves. Evolution is only possible if it takes place over trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion years! (Forget ''millions')' and the being, being evolved has some say in the matter!. But then there would be even more missing links needed.

 

[snr5557]

So according to this text animals(once thought of as dumb)can manipulate their hormonal reactions at will and change their color?Why cant humans do the same?I dont believe it.But maybe animals are not as stupid as we thought.

Humans cannot change color for the same reason we cannot fly, we are not built to do so.

How do you not believe that certain animals change color? Scientists have seen this happen. Unless you're saying you don't believe what those scientists have found is true, and I have to ask what your explanation for how this happens.

I guess in this case, for you at least, truth is stranger than fiction.
We should not have a society of humans that have so many similarities! We should all be completely different.

Well, that would go against evolution actually. If we have a trait that is beneficial, then that trait will increase overtime if the individuals who have that trait live long enough to reproduce. So, for example, thumbs are useful to humans. We use them on a regular basis and have aided us in our survival, so it makes sense that everyone in our species would have them.

Our noses are miraculously in the centre of our face. How did that evolve there? Our hears are on the side of our head. Our arms are equal length. Our bum is well positioned so we don't drop feces on ourselves.

All of these things happen because that is the best place to have those things. If our nose was on the palm of our hand, it would make grabbing things difficult. Also, since our brain interprets the senses that we obtain from our environment around us, it makes sense that the parts of the body that allow us to gather information from around us would be close to the brain. So, aside from sense of touch, almost all other parts of the body that involve the senses are close to the brain, because it needs that information to get an idea of what is going on around it. Speed is important, because sometimes life and death decisions have to be made in seconds so having all the necessary information to make it as quickly as possible is important.That way the information can get to the brain more quickly. Our ears are on either sides of our head in order to gain a better advantage in hearing. If both ears were on the same side of the head, the side without an ear would be more difficult to hear from. If our "bum" was placed anywhere else it would more than likely be disastrous, since many diseases are spread through feces.

 

[KingJ]

Our noses are miraculously in the centre of our face. How did that evolve there? Our hears are on the side of our head. Our arms are equal length. Our bum is well positioned so we don't drop feces on ourselves.

All of these things happen because that is the best place to have those things. If our nose was on the palm of our hand, it would make grabbing things difficult. Also, since our brain interprets the senses that we obtain from our environment around us, it makes sense that the parts of the body that allow us to gather information from around us would be close to the brain. So, aside from sense of touch, almost all other parts of the body that involve the senses are close to the brain, because it needs that information to get an idea of what is going on around it. Speed is important, because sometimes life and death decisions have to be made in seconds so having all the necessary information to make it as quickly as possible is important.That way the information can get to the brain more quickly. Our ears are on either sides of our head in order to gain a better advantage in hearing. If both ears were on the same side of the head, the side without an ear would be more difficult to hear from. If our "bum" was placed anywhere else it would more than likely be disastrous, since many diseases are spread through feces.

You are missing the point by a mile. Once more absolute brain dead reasoning! Your eyes are well positioned above your nose. Why is one eye not beneath your nose? Why is one eye not beneath your ear? Why are our mouths and eyes not on the other side of our head? How did our elbows evolve to be exactly the same on both arms? Why didn't we evolve longer range senses for the brain that would enable our eyes to be on our bums? Why only two eyes? the list is endless. Not sure how someone can be so naive.

So we experimented over millions of years on where to put our bum? You really can't see how DUMB your reasoning is? That would take trillions x trillions x trillions x trillions of years and ONLY still work IF we had a say in our evolution .

To believe in creation you need simply use your brain and senses. To believe in evolution you need to switch them off and dream...and repeat to yourself that you are way beyond anyone elses intelligence on the matter.

We should not have a society of humans that have so many similarities! We should all be completely different.

Well, that would go against evolution actually. If we have a trait that is beneficial, then that trait will increase overtime if the individuals who have that trait live long enough to reproduce. So, for example, thumbs are useful to humans. We use them on a regular basis and have aided us in our survival, so it makes sense that everyone in our species would have them.

Miraculously all at the same time / generation and in the same place . If beneficial parts evolved, then where are our hollow bones and wings? tail?

How about you stare at your thumb for a few secs with wonderful eyes that can see and grasp intelligent desgin?

 

[snr5557]

You are missing the point by a mile. Once more absolute brain dead reasoning! Your eyes are well positioned above your nose. Why is one eye not beneath your nose? Why is one eye not beneath your ear? Why are our mouths and eyes not on the other side of our head? Ho did our elbows evolve to be exactly the same on both arms?

Well, a good reason to have the eyes above the nose is because when a person sneezes, germs are shot through the air. If the eyes were beneath, it would be more likely for germs to get into the eyes, increasing the chance of a person getting sick. If an eye were beneath the ears, it would make it difficult to walk forward, because we could not see well in front of us. If our eyes and mouth were on the opposite side of our head, it would make it difficult to eat because the rest of our body would be facing the other way. We would have to walk backwards if our eyes were on the back of our head, which is more difficult than walking forwards. If our elbows were different, it would make common functions that we used both hands for more difficult. If are arms worked the same way, which they do, those tasks are easier to do.


So we experimented over millions of years where to put our bum? You really can't see how DUMB your reasoning is? \

I wouldn't say that. I think you are working under the idea that every single trait combination has been tried.


To believe in creation you need simply use your brain and senses. To believe in evolution you need to switch them off and dream...and repeat to yourself that you are way beyond anyone elses intelligence on the matter.

I disagree, many scientists look to each other for assistance. We look to God for guidance. We look at how His creations work, and often take the way they move to incorporate into what we create.

 

[KingJ]

Snr557, you are still dodging that it points to intelligent design.

Evolution is only believable if you believe God guided it. But that then disagrees with scripture and the purpose behind evolution. Evolution without any guidance is simply madness!! Where are the trillions and trillions of missing links? I see you ignored that question.

 

[snr5557]

Snr557, you are still dodging that it points to intelligent design.

Evolution is only believable if you believe God guided it. But then it disagrees with scripture. Evolution without any guidance is simply madness!! Where are the trillions and trillions of missing links? I see you ignored that question.

I am not in the field, so sadly I can't get access to all of the cutting edge information. The world is madness KingJ, a cruel, beautiful, and amazing madness. I cannot account for every missing link, science takes time to happen. It isn't instantaneous. However, if you are curious about the evolution of humans, here is a wonderful website that should help you get started. Hopefully this will help guide you towards where some of our missing links are.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/

 

[KingJ]

I am not in the field, so sadly I can't get access to all of the cutting edge information. The world is madness KingJ, a cruel, beautiful, and amazing madness. I cannot account for every missing link, science takes time to happen. It isn't instantaneous. However, if you are curious about the evolution of humans, here is a wonderful website that should help you get started. Hopefully this will help guide you towards where some of our missing links are.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/

I am not in the field, so sadly I can't get access to all of the cutting edge information. The world is madness KingJ, a cruel, beautiful, and amazing madness. I cannot account for every missing link, science takes time to happen. It isn't instantaneous. However, if you are curious about the evolution of humans, here is a wonderful website that should help you get started. Hopefully this will help guide you towards where some of our missing links are.

http://humanorigins.si.edu/

No snr557, this is an amazingly complex world of perfect order. There are no visible stages of evolution present. Everything is a final product.

I have heard the reasoning for the missing links. 'Fossils are hard to come by, are not kept intact''.....braindead braindead braindead! Where are all the missing links TODAY???

13 983 816 different combinations off 6 numbers between 1-49...think on that!

 

[snr5557]

No snr557, this is an amazingly complex world of perfect order. There are no visible stages of evolution present. Everything is a final product.

Well here is one example of evolution today. When did I saw the world was not ordered? It is, but it's a messy sort of order. New species arise, and some go extinct. The fight for survival can be brutal, but the ingenuity is beautiful. All of it is amazing...but mad.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0050254

I have heard the reasoning for the missing links. 'Fossils are hard to come by, are not kept intact''.....braindead braindead braindead! Where are all the missing links TODAY???

Are you asking where all of the fossils are? I should remind you that fossils are buried underneath dirt, so it is difficult to locate them since we cannot see them. Also, the envirnoment does not have feeling or thought, so it will not try to preserve fossils, which will lead to them being damaged.


13 983 816 different combinations off 6 numbers between 1-49...think on that!

I do, it's amazing. I remember watching a film on how long it took for scientists to map out the genome of one person.

 

[KingJ]

I have heard the reasoning for the missing links. 'Fossils are hard to come by, are not kept intact''.....braindead braindead braindead! Where are all the missing links TODAY???

Are you asking where all of the fossils are? I should remind you that fossils are buried underneath dirt, so it is difficult to locate them since we cannot see them. Also, the envirnoment does not have feeling or thought, so it will not try to preserve fossils, which will lead to them being damaged.

Not just fossils but living examples... today.

Your statements like 'the eye can't be beneath the nose because the nose will put germs in it'' are something to consider for sure, but it is dodging the point. We can place the nose at an angle to dodge the eyes. We can place the eyes beneath the ears too.

 

[snr5557]

Not just fossils but living examples... today.

If a human body only needed eyes (1), ears (2), arm (3), mouth (4), brain (5) and legs (6) to work, we should have 13 million different combinations of humans with them. Your statements like 'the eye can't be beneath the nose because the nose will put germs in it'' are something to consider for sure, but it is dodging the point / fact. We can plave the nose at an angle to dodge the eyes. We can place the eyes beneath the ears too.

I wasn't dodging, just answering your question. Mostly because it wouldn't make much sense is why our faces are not arranged like a Picasso painting. We should not have 13 million different combinations because part of being of the same species is having the same anatomy. If we were all completely different in the way our body is shaped, which would usually alter how each of those parts worked, would most likely be the start or result of a species.

Just fyi, the nose would still probably get germs into the eyes, whenever a person had a runny nose the snot could drip down into the eye...eww...

Where did you even get this argument from?


Now I am not saying it can't work. It can happen that over trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion (NOT simply millions!!!!) years we all have these 6 body parts in the same positions and ONLY if we have a say in our own evolution!! If we can't then where are the missing links?

Just one quick question, why do you believe that living missing links will prove evolution? If you know.

 

[KingJ]

Not just fossils but living examples... today.

If a human body only needed eyes (1), ears (2), arm (3), mouth (4), brain (5) and legs (6) to work, we should have 13 million different combinations of humans with them. Your statements like 'the eye can't be beneath the nose because the nose will put germs in it'' are something to consider for sure, but it is dodging the point / fact. We can plave the nose at an angle to dodge the eyes. We can place the eyes beneath the ears too.

I wasn't dodging, just answering your question. Mostly because it wouldn't make much sense is why our faces are not arranged like a Picasso painting. We should not have 13 million different combinations because part of being of the same species is having the same anatomy. If we were all completely different in the way our body is shaped, which would usually alter how each of those parts worked, would most likely be the start or result of a species.

Just fyi, the nose would still probably get germs into the a eyes, whenever person had a runny nose the snot could drip down into the eye...eww...

Where did you even get this argument from?


Now I am not saying it can't work. It can happen that over trillion x trillion x trillion x trillion (NOT simply millions!!!!) years we all have these 6 body parts in the same positions and ONLY if we have a say in our own evolution!! If we can't then where are the missing links?

Just one quick question, why do you believe that living missing links will prove evolution? If you know.

When first I applied my mind to evolution I hit this hurdle. My example of 6 body parts I deleted as re-arranging 6 parts = 36 .

Using species doesn't change anything except raise the question as to why there aren't more species? Just meditate for a day or two on this... 13 983 816 different combinations off 6 numbers between 1-49.

If the starting point is random there needs to be alot more humans within our species. Only hands on theistic / guided evolution is possible...but true evolutionists will not accept this into their algorithms and nor devout Christians who know scripture.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Mr. Bride said ... 'The probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the probability of the Unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing factory'~Edwin Conklin

River Jordan replied .... Can I see your probability calculations?

My response .... I tried to find my old notes from 1995 but was unable ...... back then a mathematician was commissioned to do a study to determine the compound odds of probability that intricate cells could arrange themselves by random chance to form a human body

His findings amounted to huge and impossible odds .... something like trillions and trillions and trillions and trillions to one ..... just the size of the number took pages and pages to type out.

When asked to put it in layman's terms he said it would be akin to a whirlwind blowing through a junkyard and the result was a fully functional Boeing 747 ready to fly . Fuel included.

This is mathematics speaking. Not religion.

If you wish to refute those findings please present your own mathematical model

I am not a mathematician , ..... but we can easily show there are 49 possible numbers in the lottery and to pick 6 of them the odds are 49x49x49x49x49x49 = 13,841,287,201

There are estimated to be a hundred trillion cells in the human body ... which is infinitesimally larger than the number "49" used in the lotto example.

And remember those hundreds of trillion cells only have 3.8 billion years to evolve and assemble themselves.


Best wishes in your studies.

 

[River Jordan]

perhaps the influenza mutations are do to sin ..

And what determines whether any given mutation remains or is eliminated from the population?

This makes me think of my biggest question on evolution. Where are all the missing links?

Pick two taxonomic groups that are supposed to be evolutionarily close (reptiles and mammals, reptiles and birds, fish and tetrapods, humans and primates) and we'll see what's out there. Alternatively, we can also check to see if there are any "links" between taxa that aren't supposed to be evolutionarily close (horses and birds, reptiles and plants, etc.) and see what's out there as well.

It's not just the predictions about what we should see that are important, but what we shouldn't see as well.

There are no visible stages of evolution present. Everything is a final product.

Except for that pesky little fact that we still see populations evolving today...developing new traits, abilities, genes, and even species. Other than that.....

My response .... I tried to find my old notes from 1995 but was unable ...... back then a mathematician was commissioned to do a study to determine the compound odds of probability that intricate cells could arrange themselves by random chance to form a human body

Well there's one problem already. Cellular arrangement is not random, which renders any calculations that operate on that basis meaningless.

This is mathematics speaking. Not religion.

It's a straw man speaking, not science.

If you wish to refute those findings please present your own mathematical model

Why do you need a probability calculation for something that happens right in front of us?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

Yeah...that plays well in youth ministries...

"Hey kids! You know that fossil you saw at the museum? You know how you have to get a new flu shot every year? You know that whole human genome thing? STAY AWAY FROM THEM! THEY'RE ALL OF SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!"

Hang on for a minute .... Christians do not tell their children fossils displays are from Satan ..... it is when children are told God did not create humans ... they just evolved by themselves ..... that comes right from the pit of Satan

On that same note isn't there a place in the bible that warns against teaching ungodly things to children ?? .... the consequences are severe.

And on the subject of flu shots .... do you realize they were implemented because of new and deadly flu strains ??

Trouble is .... the flu shots immunize against previous known flu strains .... which does absolutely nothing against the new pandemic strains.

You cannot vaccinate against something that does not yet exist .

Interesting a few years ago the Canadian government went on a big campaign to get everybody to take a yearly flu shot .... there was a lot of concern whether it was necessary or not .... plus there is a percentage of people who have harmful effects from the shots.

Long story short .... Canada buys all our vaccines in bulk and one year the vaccine was thrown out because it was tainted .... that year had the lowest number of flu cases since the vaccination program was implemented. Most people no longer get the shots and life is fine.

 

[River Jordan]

Arnie,

http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/ageofearth.htm

"Others say that Satan created these fossils in order to deceive us."

And I'm not going to get into the whole anti-vaccine thing with you. As it is, I can barely keep up with all the science denialism from the creationist perspective here.