Idolatry and the like in Catholicism

[DuckieLady]

No, Idolatry is worship just like anything can be idolatry. Having statues are not idolatry or God would be guilty of idolatry in the OT with the statues of the cherubs and he statue of the snake in the wilderness. The statues Catholics have, the icons that te Orthodox have are no different then the picture of a long dead relative or friend you have. Do you worship the picture, even if you talk to it? No it is a reminder of what went before.



So it is wrong to want to make the best things for God? Sports can have great things but God can't have great things built for Him by grateful Christians. Just because many protestant groups hate nice things, the majority of Christians don't



The only one that thinks this are protestant and evangelicals, and keep promoting many lies like these, Catholics know he is not



So you serve a god of the dead then? Christians do not and everyone in Heaven are more alive then we are. It is not just Catholics that ask the Saints to pray for them but so do Anglicans, Orthodox, and other Christians. Asking the great cloud of witnesses to pray is no different than you asking a friend to pray. The problem is protestant think words only have the meaning they attach to it. Pray means to ask, it is not something religious. When you go to a friend and ask them to pray yourpraying to them. Look up the definitions



See the above for this absolute myth



So is Protestantism and evangelicalism, dang those things are satanic then. For 1500 hundred years in the west he church was one then the great rebellion happened

Also not sure what you're talking about with the great rebellion. Is that the part where Luther translated the Bible into German and the people read it for themselves in their own language and started rebaptizing, and then the Catholic church murdered them and burned them at the stake cause they got all mad about it?

 

[DuckieLady]

Hello Fluffy,

I just gave you one.

Here is another:

I urge you, (brothers,) by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in the struggle by your prayers to God on my behalf

The communion of the saints is real! We pray for one another and are not ashamed to ask (pray) our brothers and sisters pray for us!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

thank you

He was alive when he wrote that. These are historical letters.

 

[dev553344]

In the story of the Witch of Endor, Saul asks the Witch to raise up the prophet Samuel. Why would he consult a witch if he could pray to him? And Samuel tells him he disturbed his rest.

The Bible says that the dead are asleep and will be resurrected at the end.

Here's a few verses that explain:


"The dead do not praise the LORD, nor any who go down into silence "
Psalm 115:17

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom"

Ecclesiastes 9:10


Now He is God not of the dead, but of the living; for to Him all of them are alive

Luke 20:38

Death never testifies of God, but only God's judgments and wrath. The resurrection does testify of God also, to glory or damnation. We can agree that many have already been resurrected and can visit the people on earth since I have already quoted scripture of them visiting the living and were most likely witnessing of the resurrection. Or do you disagree?

 

[DuckieLady]

Death never testifies of God, but only God's judgments and wrath. The resurrection does testify of God also, to glory or damnation. We can agree that many have already been resurrected and can visit the people on earth since I have already quoted scripture of them visiting the living and were most likely witnessing of the resurrection. Or do you disagree?

I say let the Word speak for itself and do as Jesus himself taught, because his way is always truth and it will never lead to guessing.

One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples."
2
He said to them, "When you pray, say: "`Father, [1] hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. [2]
3
Give us each day our daily bread.
4
Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. [3] And lead us not into temptation. [4]

Jesus Christ alone is our intercessor and he alone is enough.

 

[dev553344]

I say let the Word speak for itself and do as Jesus himself taught, because his way is always truth and it will never lead to guessing.

One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him, "Lord, teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples."
2
He said to them, "When you pray, say: "`Father, [1] hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. [2]
3
Give us each day our daily bread.
4
Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. [3] And lead us not into temptation. [4]

Jesus Christ alone is our intercessor and he alone is enough.

I agree, I wasn't talking about praying to people other than God, but we know that Angels visit people (who are implied here as having bodies so are most likely resurrected beings).

Hebrews 13:2-4

King James Version

2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.

 

[Philip James]

thank you

He was alive when he wrote that. These are historical letters.

Dear Fluffy,

He is alive now!

Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,

and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

We serve the God of the living!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[DuckieLady]

Dear Fluffy,

He is alive now!

Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live,

and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"

We serve the God of the living!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Philip, that verse was written while he was alive in the body because it was a letter.

Do you have a verse where it says to pray to those where the body has passed away?

He was asking for people to pray on his behalf because he needed prayer for his mission.

He wasn't asking anyone to pray to him when he is dead or when anyone else was dead.

 

[Mosheli]

So it is wrong to want to make the best things for God? Sports can have great things but God can't have great things built for Him by grateful Christians. Just because many protestant groups hate nice things, the majority of Christians don't

That's partly true like they had things like the golden ark in OT times.
But they don't make the best things for God, they make the best things for their clergy/elite. Some of the things do not seem to be very much for God.
Best things for God would be for everyone including the poor. Priorities. Its bad that Vatican has so much wealth while others have so little.
The Vatican etc full of gold everywhere is not a very good witness for/of God.
I don't call myself a protestant or a catholic, but I don't hate nice things.
Material things and wealth are not everything, there are other things like culture and love/charity and goodness.
They may have best things but they also have other bad things (some not visible).
Maybe also similar to being humble and modest too.
Too much of some things can be sickening, sort of like I don't like Baroque architecture/art much.
Neither asceticism nor gluttony. Nothing in excess, all in moderation.
(Neither prosperity gospel not poverty gospel.)

 

[DuckieLady]

That's partly true like they had things like the golden ark in OT times.
But they don't make the best things for God, they make the best things for their clergy/elite. Some of the things do not seem to be very much for God.
Best things for God would be for everyone including the poor. Priorities. Its bad that Vatican has so much wealth while others have so little.
The Vatican etc full of gold everywhere is not a very good witness for/of God.
I don't call myself a protestant or a catholic, but I don't hate nice things.
Material things and wealth are not everything, there are other things like culture and love/charity and goodness.
They may have best things but they also have other bad things (some not visible).
Maybe also similar to being humble and modest too.
Too much of some things can be sickening, sort of like I don't like Baroque architecture/art much.
Neither asceticism nor gluttony. Nothing in excess, all in moderation.
(Neither prosperity gospel not poverty gospel.)

Yes and to back up what you wrote-

Luke 3:11

John answered, "Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same."

 

[Philip James]

Philip, that verse was written while he was alive in the body because it was a letter.

Do you have a verse where it says to pray to those where the body has passed away?

When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

 

[DuckieLady]

When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

That still doesn't say to pray to dead people.

It says there's incense that represents the prayers of the holy ones.

It doesn't say they are being prayed to.

 

[dev553344]

When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.

Yes but these twenty-four elders "fell down before the Lamb" indicating they were not worthy to hold the prayers of the holy ones?

 

[Grailhunter]

Martin Luther's 95 Theses he nailed on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany on October 31st, 1517.
Followed by the 30 year war...

Martin Luther's 95 Theses

I am thinking that there will be some that will agree with you.
Annie get your gun!

 

[DuckieLady]

Martin Luther's 95 Theses he nailed on the door of the castle church in Wittenberg, Germany on October 31st, 1517.
Followed by the 30 year war...

Martin Luther's 95 Theses

Thank you I was being a little bit facetious. I really am not familiar with the great rebellion, however. Still good info though

 

[DuckieLady]

Yes but these twenty-four elders "fell down before the Lamb" indicating they were not worthy to hold the prayers of the holy ones?

Aye, nice point! Didn't catch that.

 

[dev553344]

Aye, nice point! Didn't catch that.

I never felt comfortable praying to anyone other than God. And often I wonder about asking for prayers from others for healing as I see God as fully capable of healing me if he desires. But I think God might come to the rescue of someone who receives a lot of prayers for healing to proclaim his glory so I'm a little divided on the issue of praying for someones healing?

 

[DuckieLady]

I never felt comfortable praying to anyone other than God. And often I wonder about asking for prayers from others for healing as I see God as fully capable of healing me if he desires. But I think God might come to the rescue of someone who receives a lot of prayers for healing to proclaim his glory so I'm a little divided on the issue of praying for someones healing?

It is encouraged to pray for one another! Sounds like the uncomfortable feeling of praying to someone was the Holy Spirit saying "no not that way!" A joyous thing to have that guidance.

Nothing wrong with prayers for healing.

James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord.

 

[dev553344]

It is encouraged to pray for one another! Sounds like the uncomfortable feeling of praying to someone was the Holy Spirit saying "no not that way!" A joyous thing to have that guidance.

Nothing wrong with prayers for healing.

James 5:14

Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord.

I've seen healing performed by my Church member priests and witness the ultrasounds that proved the healing was performed by God. He does heal and prove his glory. So yeah. I think the issue I have now is do I have enough faith to just let God heal me or do I seek man to help provide that healing? And maybe God desires me to have man be part of that healing to proclaim his glory?

 

[DuckieLady]

I've seen healing performed by my Church member priests and witness the ultrasounds that proved the healing was performed by God. He does heal and prove his glory. So yeah. I think the issue I have now is do I have enough faith to just let God heal me or do I seek man to help provide that healing? And maybe God desires me to have man be part of that healing to proclaim his glory?

Jesus said we only need faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains. I believe that God will answer the prayers we ask in Jesus' name, if it is in accordance with his will.

But with the scripture Philip did post, he proved one thing correct by the example set in that scripture; that we are meant to pray for one another and ask for prayer.

And you asking for prayer gives others the opportunity to pray and be obedience to the holy scriptures.

 

[DuckieLady]

@Devin Wintch

The Lord wants you to know this and believe it- it is the verse he gave me.

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it."

John 14:12-14