That verse is definitely for me.
And regarding the OP, if it's ghosts you're worried about, I have this:
Idolatry and the like in Catholicism
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And regarding the OP, if it's ghosts you're worried about, I have this:
HeheheThat verse is definitely for me.
And regarding the OP, if it's ghosts you're worried about, I have this:
Okay, that's a cute one.
ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
BLASPHEMYS by the RCC
"the great Mother of God, the Virgin Mary, who is the treasurer [sequestra] of our peace with God, and the mediatrix [administra] of graces...."
"He hear the prayers of those who beseech through her, whom He Himself willed to be the mediatrix [administram] of graces."
"nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother."
"it is dispensed from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, from the Virgin to us"
"Mother, that she who had been the minister [administra] of the mystery of human redemption, was equally the minister [administra] of the grace to be given from it for all time, practically immeasurable power being given to her"
"So may the most powerful Virgin Mother, who once 'cooperated in love that the faithful might be born in the Church', be even now the means and mediatrix of our salvation"
"Now from this common sharing of will and suffering between Christ and Mary, she 'merited to become most worthily the Reparatrix of the lost world"
" the fact that she was with Him crucified and dying, was in accord with the divine plan. For with her suffering and dying Son, Mary endured suffering and almost death... ... further, there is a most constant belief among the faithful, proved by long experience, that as many as employ the same Virgin as Patron, will not at all perish forever. "
" She, the Virgin Mother, [is] the treasurer [sequestra] of all graces with God"
" we know also that all things are imparted to us from God the Greatest and Best, through the hands of the Mother of God"
" ... having been associated, as Mother and Minister, with the King of martyrs in the ineffable work of human Redemption, she is always associated, with a practically measureless power, in the distribution of the graces that derive from the Redemption.... And her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion"
" Mother, there may be opened to them, all the treasures of the divine Redemption, and so they may have life, and have it more abundantly. Did not the Lord will that we have everything through Mary?"
"the great Mother of God, the Virgin Mary, who is the treasurer [sequestra] of our peace with God, and the mediatrix [administra] of graces...."
"He hear the prayers of those who beseech through her, whom He Himself willed to be the mediatrix [administram] of graces."
"nothing is imparted to us except through Mary, since God so wills, so that just as no one can come to the Father except through the Son, so in general, no one can come to Christ except through His Mother."
"it is dispensed from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, from the Virgin to us"
"Mother, that she who had been the minister [administra] of the mystery of human redemption, was equally the minister [administra] of the grace to be given from it for all time, practically immeasurable power being given to her"
"So may the most powerful Virgin Mother, who once 'cooperated in love that the faithful might be born in the Church', be even now the means and mediatrix of our salvation"
"Now from this common sharing of will and suffering between Christ and Mary, she 'merited to become most worthily the Reparatrix of the lost world"
" the fact that she was with Him crucified and dying, was in accord with the divine plan. For with her suffering and dying Son, Mary endured suffering and almost death... ... further, there is a most constant belief among the faithful, proved by long experience, that as many as employ the same Virgin as Patron, will not at all perish forever. "
" She, the Virgin Mother, [is] the treasurer [sequestra] of all graces with God"
" we know also that all things are imparted to us from God the Greatest and Best, through the hands of the Mother of God"
" ... having been associated, as Mother and Minister, with the King of martyrs in the ineffable work of human Redemption, she is always associated, with a practically measureless power, in the distribution of the graces that derive from the Redemption.... And her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion"
" Mother, there may be opened to them, all the treasures of the divine Redemption, and so they may have life, and have it more abundantly. Did not the Lord will that we have everything through Mary?"
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This is wonderful scripture, there is so much packed in 4 verses. What is it may you will be done in earth as in heaven, don’t see it here.
But seems to say - May the things that possible In heaven be done on earth - Love;joy;peace;forgiveness;mercy;forbearance; living by the spirit- suffering for Christ.
Give us our daily bread: Jesus is the bread of life who we partake with living inside of us; in which something to rejoice about. Jesus is also the everlasting water; we may receive from him if we desire until we are filled spiritually.
Forgive our sins _ which has been - so we may forgive others as the Lord has forgiven us. Help us not be lead into temptation and into having a evil heart even harden heart of unbelief.
And this connection is open. 365/24/7
The prayer line of access to the Father through the Son by prayer.
Thank you for sharing.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I am not sure what is in the heart of a Catholic. I do know the Catholic Church carried the Gospel for 1000 years before Martin Luther and still does. I would like to think that they do not bow down and worship statues, which specifically God warns about in the Ten Commandments. These are just symbols. I would like to believe they do not worship Mary, only pray for her to intercede along with the saints as well. I asked a priest about that once and he cleared that up. They do pray the Lord's Prayer, that is a perfect prayer, a template for all, but the repetition of it over and over does not reflect our individual needs. The clergy got carried away with selling indulgences and so many of these other false practices and beliefs were a bit off track - which is why God sent Martin Luther with His Ninety-five Theses.
I think God could easily send another Martin Luther to correct the Protestants as well in the many ways they have gone off on a tangent.
There is no perfect Church.
Notice in the Letters to the Sevens Churches around 95 AD, only two of the churches did not receive rebuke, corrections and warnings to repent. One was almost dead and another the Lord wanted to vomit them out of His mouth.
Maybe you should have a conversation with a priest or a Nun sometime and talk about these things, you may be surprised that they love Jesus.
That artwork in that photo is kind of scary. It looks like the Devil. The artwork may have been superimposed in the photo to present something evil. I have never seen anything like that for their Christmas or Easter services.
There are many stories going around, sometimes fabricated, having evil intentions in themselves. Hatred leads to opening the door to evil and giving Satan a foothold.
I heard the Pope was forming an alliance with Islam and combining both religions into a One World Religion. Maybe? If that is true, that is way off track.
Praying to anyone but God is a waste of time and goes out void. People get emotional after the death of a loved one and want to communicate with that person. The Bible tells us we cannot so yes, Mediums who claim they can are either lying for money or being fooled by demons who may mimick a person, give information about a past life of someone else that checks out - but it is not theirs.
Joseph Smith used to wear a pyramid shaped hat and gaze into a crystal ball and e tered into an altered state, which left him open to demonic activity. An angel of light appeared. We know Satan can appear as an angel of light - I think he appeared as Moroni to Joseph.
Bottom line, we cannot invalidate Catholism because of some traditions, false beliefs or sin.
We see a lot wrong in their church but they still bear fruit. A bad apple can spoil the bunch. I actually asked a priest about homosexuality in the priesthood. He said yes, there was but maybe one case in a thousand and that one gets in the news, then the whole church suffers and people think it's widespread.
Throughout the ages, The Catholic Church planted orphanages, hospitals, missions, were charitible to the poor - this cannot be forgotten. Do you think Mother Teresa was evil? I read Pope John Paul II's book, Beyond the Threshold of Hope and I was impressed, he was so smart and wise, a good man.
Popes don't believe they are Christ, just vicars of Christ... In a sense, we are all priests and ambassadors of Christ on certain occasions when the Holy Spirit uses us.
You will probably be surprised when you see half of the Christians in heaven came from The Roman Catholic Church.
I'm just going to add a little to what you're saying to explain why we do not idolize Mary. Jesus himself did not. In fact, he corrects the person praising her.
Luke 11:27-28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."
Now see his response...
He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."
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ByGraceThroughFaith
Well-Known Member
How about calling Mary the joint redeemer? And giving her a status that makes her equal to the Lord?
As someone who was raised and confirmed in the Roman Catholic church, I'd say that your list just touches the tip of the transgressions in orthopraxy by the leadership of the RC church. That being said, it is that leadership that has come under judgement. The average devout Catholic only knows and follows those doctrines that they've been taught through catechism or from the pulpit, and you should understand that every false doctrine, every transgression through orthopraxy has an explanation that seems reasonable to them and usually biblical verses taken out of context or misinterpreted to justify unbiblical practices or outright biblical transgressions. Devout Catholics like my mother refer to the RCC as Holy mother the church and have been taught that "the church" is the absolute doctrinal authority and that the Bible can only be properly interpreted by the church. The RCC also has a doctrine from the writings of a third century saint included in their Catechism that states that there is no salvation outside the church. These doctrines may be half truths dependent on how you define "the church", because the testimony of scripture is that spiritual things can only be comprehended by spiritual people and that such people became that way by the quickening of the Holy Spirit; only those who have received Christ by faith and recieved His Spirit are qualified to interpret scripture. That is a description of a born again Christian and the born again Christians are the body of Christ, the congregation of the saints, or simply put Christ's church. The other doctrine which says there is no salvation outside the church is again true because you must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven and only those born again are members of the body of Christ. The problem is in how you define the church and the word itself simply means congregation.
I was raised Catholic, but walked away because of the obvious unbiblical practices and obvious transgressions against God's law that were either orthopraxy or just common practice, at the age of 13, after my confirmation.
I was 39 years old before I heard and believed the gospel of salvation as I understand it, as it is written in chapter 53 of the book of Isaiah. After that I attended services in the RCC, baptist churches, Episcopal churches, Methodist churches, so called "bible churches", Calvary chapels, and in every church that I attended I found doctrines that contradict scripture and always based upon some catechism or charismatic church founder. There is no perfect church upon Earth because there are no perfected people on Earth. We have not yet had our bodies fully redeemed and that doesn't happen until the 1st resurrection and the gathering together of the Church (body of Christ, His bride). Neither you or I have the power or the authority to restructure any church, though we alter orthopraxy all the time within congregations to please the tastes and preferences of the congregation, grow the assembly (and frequently to bring in the bucks.) The place where we tend to fail as congregations is in our practice of correcting everyone else when our primary concern should always be in correcting ourselves. I love Isaiah chapter 58 because it explains what God values in His congregation and the beauty that's possible to be seen in the bride when we simply follow His way rather than our own.
I was raised Catholic, but walked away because of the obvious unbiblical practices and obvious transgressions against God's law that were either orthopraxy or just common practice, at the age of 13, after my confirmation.
I was 39 years old before I heard and believed the gospel of salvation as I understand it, as it is written in chapter 53 of the book of Isaiah. After that I attended services in the RCC, baptist churches, Episcopal churches, Methodist churches, so called "bible churches", Calvary chapels, and in every church that I attended I found doctrines that contradict scripture and always based upon some catechism or charismatic church founder. There is no perfect church upon Earth because there are no perfected people on Earth. We have not yet had our bodies fully redeemed and that doesn't happen until the 1st resurrection and the gathering together of the Church (body of Christ, His bride). Neither you or I have the power or the authority to restructure any church, though we alter orthopraxy all the time within congregations to please the tastes and preferences of the congregation, grow the assembly (and frequently to bring in the bucks.) The place where we tend to fail as congregations is in our practice of correcting everyone else when our primary concern should always be in correcting ourselves. I love Isaiah chapter 58 because it explains what God values in His congregation and the beauty that's possible to be seen in the bride when we simply follow His way rather than our own.
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Riverwalker
Active Member
I would caution you not to throw the baby out with the bath water. While there are many Catholics who are praying to Mary and the saints, it is NOT because they are making the idols, but in my experience it is because they are afraid of God.
As an ex-catholic, In my Catholic background (augmented by the fact that I have an Italian Mother) guilt, shame, and chastisement were a large part of my life. I felt unworthy to reach out to God directly, they told me I had to earn my way into the grace of God and I knew I was not worthy, and the biweekly trips into the confession booth did little to allay that.
I felt as if God was standing over me with a hammer waiting for me to fail. So the idea that I could pray to a saint and they would pass on my prayers was very alluring. If I just sat down and did the hamster wheel of prayer (The Rosary - a lot of action going no where) once a week I was good. I never worshipped Mary or the saints, I just used them
There are some very good Catholics, generous and giving. There are many priests who are living under a vow of poverty and have never touched a child.
You simply cannot indict nearly 2 billion believers based on the bad actions of some. These are God's people. Yes they are bound up in tradition and wrong teaching, but like myself back in the day, They love God and Jesus is their Lord.
You're right that we can't blame the members for child abuse. But keep in mind that the victims of abuse are the members.
What I am stating is that we are responsible for our faith and understanding of the word- there is no excuse to being ignorant to what is already written. God decides what is right. He does not stir away from himself. The wisdom of this world is foolishness to God and the way is narrow - he says so himself.
The church itself will be held accountable for what they do and we will be held accountable for choosing to let evil pass us by and refusing to stand in the way of wickedness.
"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."
That says pray for us, not pray to us.
You're mistaken here on your comment about the churches responsibility. It is the shepherds of the flock (actually under shepherds with God as the Great Shepherd) that are responsible for the flock. The flock is never responsible for the shepherd.
While I'm inclined to agree with you for the most part, I don't believe that the RCC is mystery Babylon. It, like any other church is comprised of all its membership, not just its priesthood and some are willing to change and correct two millennia of error. Pope John Paul certainly was. Unfortunately, the vast size of the church makes it hard to turn. It's like a great ship with a broken rudder. In that analogy, the priesthood is the rudder and the priesthood is rigidly structured to resemble partly the biblical example and partly the example of the Roman empire (because of the influence of Constantine and Rome in that millennia.)
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Indeed,
This shows that our brothers and sisters continue to perform the priestly function of interceding for us, presenting our petitions in the heavenly liturgy.
Now James tells us 'the prayers of a rigbteous man are powerful indeed'
Who among us is more righteous than those who have already gone to abide with Jesus in heaven?
Further, the 2000 year experience and witness of the Church affirms that God had wrought many miracles in response to our requesting the aid of the prayers of the Saints..
I have experienced this personaly as my son wad miraculously healed after I asked for the aid of this hero of the Faith: Saint Brother André - Saint Joseph's Oratory of MountRoyal
So then, i have answered your objection that Jesus is our only intercessor, demonstrating that we do indeed ask for one anothers intercession and that we do indeed intercede for one another.
I answered your objection that those who have gone before us are dead, demonstrating that they are very much alive and interceding for us.
Further, I have demonstrated the 2000 year old witness of the Church that asking these heroes of the Faith for the assistance of their prayers is effecacious.
Having thus destroyed the charge that the communion of the saints is some kind of pagan or occultic practice of necromancy,
I am prepared to move on to your charge of idolatry of you wish.
Peace be with you!
Philip James
Well-Known Member
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