If Anyone Is To Be Taken Captive ...

[Nancy]

I think, perhaps, you and I differ much in our view. But I can still voice my opinion on these things you suggest we do. The problem I see with "needing to flee major cities" is that the bible really doesn't say that. The verse you quote above is talking about Babylon, not "major cities". Now, even if we see 'Babylon' as a world system where they embrace worldly things rather than Godly ones, the call is still just to turn our backs on societies rebellion of God. We must not be a part of the "Babylonian" system.
So, regardless of whether Babylon is a single city or a system, that is all this verse calls for. And no other verse in scripture calls Christians to abandon the major cities at the end.


This...is a huge topic that requires a thread all by itself! Obviously many people see 'the mark' as a physical mark that will indeed be necessary for 'buying and selling' at the end. However, just as many people see it to be talking about declaring loyalty. When you say something is on their 'hand or forehead' you are saying they follow with deeds and thoughts. Revelation talks about the faithful also receiving the a mark, or seal, from God. This is not really painted as an actual mark, but more a stamp of loyalty...God calls and knows his own and we follow him with our thoughts and deeds. At the time of the end, anyone not willing to be a wholehearted follower of the social order will be unable to participate, which means buying or selling. This is not the first time we've seen this in history. When John wrote Revelation the Christians were experiencing a similar thing. Most had to be a part of a guild to work (and therefore buy and sell), but that guild would require tithes and worship of the Emperor, sometimes even celebrations that would include prostitutes. If Christians refused to take part in those things, the guild would toss them out, effectively cutting of their ability to be part of society; to work, to buy and sell. To follow Christ means you cannot follow a society that follows their own Satanic, Babylonian, anti-god agenda.

So...do we need to prep? I suppose it wouldn't hurt if that's what you're thinking. But others feel led, I think, to let God be sovereign over this matter. There is no explicit command for Christians to prepare so we can survive. Indeed, the sentiment is that if we must suffer and die, then so be it, we shall be rewarded at Christ's return. So, I'd say it's up to idividual interpretation.


I'm...not entirely sure what you mean here. Do we not, even now, approach God ardently on our own? Are we not supposed to? Who on earth approaches God while watching Oprah? *shudder*


As I understand 1 Thess 5:4, it doesn't mean we are to have any 'special' knowledge about when Jesus is coming. It just means that as Christians we should live in a state of readiness, always watching for our Lord. If we do not 'sleep', we will not be caught out.

And I'm sorry, but I think saying "we can't know the hour, but we can know the year, season, etc" is attempting to do a swifty on the intent of the passage. Here's the thing: people often say 'we CAN know the season because of these signs Jesus gave us to look for!' The problem with that is that most of the signs Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse are signs that span the course of the interadvental period. Wars, rumours of wars. Earthquakes, famines, disease. False christ's and prophets, persecution. Are they not things we've seen forever? The ONLY true sign we can point to is the analogy Christ used in regards to 'birth pangs'...we can expect these things to become more frequent and intense. But, even this in itself will not lead us to a 'year or season', because labor pains are sometimes quick, but sometimes they draw out for a long, long time. How bad do the pangs have to get before the baby arrives? No one knows. And considering how long it's taken for the pangs to get where they are now, who knows how long they'll take to go further. So, we are back to "no one knows the day or hour".
Actually, I don't count on a Rapture until Christ returns. I think the bible is pretty clear it's just a single event.

Wow, awesome post! Not one thing I would disagree with.

 

[Naomi25]

Naomi, we live in the world. Jesus was confronted by the world. GOD is not unaware of the word. In fact, Scripture is basically the HISTORY of the world. And it should come as no surprise that the a/c will run a one-world-government.

But if you think that Scripture has no affiliation with the world, then we'll have to wait until the pudding is ready to taste. But I'm not a fan of chocolate pudding, so I hope you pardon me for knowing what flavor it is before it's served.


With Best Regards,
Bobby Jo

So....let me try and get this straight. You're critical of me for trying to urge you to go "straight to the source" in terms of your information for biblical knowledge, rather than looking to our culture for it, but then try and tell me that the bible is well aware of our rotten culture?

It seems to me that you are chasing this around and around. Does God (and thus his word) know all about humanity, and it's forms (Hollywood, politics, comicbooks, etc)...of course...he's God. Does he allow those things to effect his own nature and his knowledge of the future or his own word? No...he is God, perfect and unchanging. The reason I am saying we turn to scripture to find out what GOD says about a certain subject, rather than culture, is because what culture thinks changes from decade to decade, and is based on sinful or mistaken notions, even if a good proportion of history is tossed in there. Remember, history is written by the victors.
But...if you want to move forward in your understanding of certain things...or eat puddings, or whatever metaphor we're using, based upon the culture and people around you rather than relying upon the perfect, unchanging, uncorruptable word of God, go right ahead. I just think you'll end up in a strange, strange place.

 

[Stranger]

I watched family members over the years who were devoted Dispensationalists. They were also paranoid watching the news like hawks seeing possible fulfillment of prophecy. They all died never seeing one of their fears materialize. It took years of bible study to deliver me from their phobias. The really sad part is the rapture they had their hearts set on thinking they were the generation who would see Christ's return.

What does dispensationalism have to do with it?

Stranger

 

[Taken]

Hi Naomi25,

There's several things we can anticipate, it's difficult to assign any priority, and best to start where GOD leads you, -- but START.

Agree...
Gods path is toward Him. His Salvation.

One aspect is that we're warned to flee from major cities:

Major cities, denotes a large amount of people. A target for one who wants to control people. Evil and Wickedness is always at work, promoting cities through numerous ways, and as well, making living in rural areas nearly impossible.

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Another is that we won't be able to buy or sell without the mark of the beast, so it might behoove us to have a "lifeboat", which is to suggest a Shelter, with a MINIMUM ~six month supply of Food; Fuel; and other Necessities.

This is more prevelant Once the anti-christ is revealed. The anti-christ shall assume the position of power over people, by assuming the high position, of a man-made governmental position.
Gods governmental position, is via a Spiritual governmental position, of His extablished Kingdom, which follows after distruction of man-made governments.

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It might also help if we're not depending on a "hireling" to do all of our studying, praying , and thinking:

Agree. The source of knowledge, "begins" by hearing. (Mommy, Daddy, siblings, relatives, neighbors, babysitters, daycares, teachers, friends...)
Gods teaching teaches to move beyond a beginning, making one accountable unto themselves for what they learn, and what source they rely upon.
God teaches to rely upon Him.
It's a freewill choice of the individual.
And it's to the individual, the consequences of their choices shall be accounted and effected.

​

I guess this means I won't be communing with GOD while reclining on the sofa, eating a bag of potato chips and drinking a Pepsi, while watching Oprah. -- It might take MORE.

Agree. Come to an understanding of what is "entertainment" and what is the "source" of Salvation.
Bluntly...Oprah is an "entertertainer".
And IFY ~ while revealing she is commended for her
"Philanthropy"...that is sometimes mistaken as her being "trustworthy"
To "entertain' folks with "anti-christ" views.
​

Of course it might help if we could KNOW when these things are about to happen:

Agree. As well WHO they WILL affect.
"Peace and SAFTEY< SAFTEY< SAFETY"
Are all the rage in these days.

Every Law, from household rules, to homeowners associations, to cities, to counties, to states, to nations, to international law....is promoted and hailed by the public, yeah, yeah....whoop, whoop, the Government is going to garner PEACE...and everyone will be on the fast track to being SAFE.
(And BTW, the fine print, is it will "ONLY" "COST" ... (har har, the wealthy $$)...
But will "COST" every person, "their LIBERTY".)

As I understand the Scripturally based timeline, we've only got ~two years until the mark of the beast, and another ~6 months until Jesus returns:

Eh...disagree.

Matt. 24:36

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

.. but we can know the week; month; season; year (1); decade (10); score (20); century (100); daytona (500); and millennia (1,000). And I don't need to know down to the week, -- within a month is sufficient for my purposes.

You can know the Signs of approaching. A nearness, but not set times.

Continued to your last point.

​

 

[Taken]

Bobby Jo (continued)​

But if you expect that the "rapture" will get you out of the 42 month (not "seven years" as we're errantly taught) tribulation:

Disagree.

Jesus came to DIVIDE.

Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

What has been happening SINCE Jesus bodily came and left the earth...and continues to this day;
IS DIVISION.

It is a Spiritual Division; clearly dividing men who Believe IN God "AND" In Christ Jesus the Messiah and IN HIM.......FROM........those who clearly do not and are NOT IN HIM.

The RAPTURE...is ABOUT Jesus "collecting", "redeeming", "taking", "claiming" and """resurrecting""" unto Himself, every man WHO,
Is "clearly" "IN" Him.
"Clearly" being defined as "CONVERTED".

It is those converted in SOUL (saved) & SPIRIT (quickened/born again), RISEN UP, in a BODY (glorified).....
Precisely Because "THEY WERE DIVIDED" from all other People "on" earth.

IOW...the DIVISION begins ON Earth, with a mans Conversion, of soul & spirit.

The SEPARATION follows by the Removal of the DIVIDED (IN Christ), to be (WITH) Christ;
Soul, Spirit ...... and Bodily......ABOVE the EARTH....out of harms WAY.

It is the SAME FASHION...God saved Noah from Destruction ON the EARTH, that Noah being IN the Ark was Lifted UP ABOVE the Earth....out of harms WAY.

Gen 7
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.

Noah was lifed up about the earth, for nearly one year.

Another Destruction ON the earth is coming.
Another SEPARATION is coming.
Nothing new...as in the days of Noah...
God destroyed mankind that was ON the Earth...WITH THE EARTH.

Gen 6
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

There is a Seven year period For, several things to happen....
The Lambs wrath for disbelief in Him.
Gods Wrath for disbelief in Him.
Any who choose to believe, opportunity to do so.
And separation for those who reject Him.
And Gods Vengance upon those who persecuted believers.

First, before the Tribulation BEGINS...
That which BELONGS/ Converted/ Sealed unto Christ Jesus........He SEPARATES and CLAIMS and CALLS UP TO HIMSELF...in the clouds, ABOVE the face of the earth....WITH HIM, and out of harms way.

THEN WHAT? Well to start a Tribulation, a catalyst, a powerful introduction of "something" needs to be present.

BTW...how did we get this information?
Oh yes, John, (the Converted faithful servant and friend of Jesus, wrote His testimony of what was to come)....AND...exactly "WHERE" was this faithful servant John, during his observation of this future event?
Oh yes, UP ABOVE the Earth. (Rev 4:1)

So what kick starts, the Tribulation?
OPENING of the ""SEALS"",which BEGINS, the anti-christ being GIVEN great power and authority OVER the people OF the EARTH.

Are the Converted still on Earth, running for their lives, running away from the WORLD powers, that is gathering unto himself, a promised allegience TO him? No.

IS Jerusalem the God sanctioned HOLY City unto the Gentiles? No.
...
IS it Jerusalem where JEWS, have gathered together, on and off for centuries, as their God sanctioned Holy City? Yes.
...
IS God going to send Gentiles to the earth to Jerusalem, To witness of Jesus to Jews? No.
...
IS it Jews (who believe IN God, but not Christ as their Messiah) who are instructed to run to the hills? Yes.
...
As the SEALS (7 of them) are opened one by one, who IS Opening them? And where IS He who is Opening them?

Rev 5
[3] And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book,(of seals) neither to look thereon.
[4] And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
[5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

Well where was this man, who was Opening the Book and each Seal?

In the clouds, and His Church WITH Him.

1 Thes 4
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

And what IS the signifance OF the SEALS, being opened....in addition to releasing the anti-christ upon the Earth "with great power and authority" ?

Rev 6
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

For what purpose would those IN Christ, believing IN God and IN Christ....be subject to the Lambs Wrath, (SEALS) the authority of the anti-Christ, (TRUMPS of Woes), the Wrath of God (VIALS, mixed with Gods Vengeance)?

Wouldn't that be like....saying, "come to the Lord God"...so He can punish you for Believing and Committing unto Him?

... then you should probably study Rev. 20 more closely, where the "rapture" is how those who are alive and remain on earth AFTER the Millennial Kingdom arise to the New Jerusalem to be with the LORD forever in the air.

Disagree with your wording.

No, the Converted saved and quickened, do not REMAIN on Earth, just as Noah did not REMAIN on Earth.
Noah was Lifted up Above the Earth, and then Returned to Earth, "AFTER" God destroyed the living remaining on Earth, with the Earth.

During the SEALS opening, the 3 1/2 years of Gods two witnessing preaching in Jerusalem, Jews running for the hills, 144,000 Jews sent to preach to the Jews, THE Jews, are coming into belief In Christ Jesus, being found, rejecting the mark of the beast, (Most, but not all) being bodily killed, and their saved souls redeemed up into Heaven.


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God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

"fight or flight" about ten minutes in...goes here
Watch Heal Online Free | Putlocker

 

[Bobby Jo]

... the only way I can imagine to avoid being "trucked off to a concentration camp" is having an isolated location with enough provisions to not venture forth and be seen or assaulted. Just keep your head down and eat a bowl of porridge for the 5 to 6 months (my estimate) between not being able to buy or sell, and Jesus' Second Coming. And we've got about 2 years (my estimate) until this will all be necessary.

OR, -- I understand that the concentration camps will be offering FREE SHOWERS!


Bobby Jo