If Christian Universalism is true, what's the point in evangelism?

[St. SteVen]

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

The bible ALSO says justification is through FAITH....salvation is through FAITH in Christ.

And what does this scripture say?
Condemnation for all people came as a result of one trespass. (Adam)
Justification for all people came as a result of one righteous act. (Christ)
All (the many) were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man. (Adam)
All (the same many) will be made (WILL BE) made righteous through the obedience of the one man. (Christ)

 

[Lizbeth]

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

And what does this scripture say?
Condemnation for all people came as a result of one trespass. (Adam)
Justification for all people came as a result of one righteous act. (Christ)
All (the many) were made sinners through the disobedience of the one man. (Adam)
All (the same many) will be made (WILL BE) made righteous through the obedience of the one man. (Christ)

Doesn't matter what anyone says, you will just continue choosing to ignore context and all the rest of scripture.

Still waiting for you to answer my question, as you love to ask so many questions while not answering any. What does it mean to perish and what do other terms such as perdition, destruction and corruption mean....as opposed to salvation? What does salvation of the soul mean, as opposed to perish, perdition, destruction of the soul...since the two are mutually exclusive. What does God's wrath do? Please expound, thanks.

 

[Lizbeth]

St. SteVen said:
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

No. "Those who belong to Christ" is not there.
Who belongs to Adam?

Don't know how else to explain it?
Why not take it at face value? (without adding to or subtracting from the scriptures)

I have already explained it the best I can. And I don't believe you would accept it no matter how it is explained.....we need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying don't we. The whole passage is clearly talking to believers about believers. It is explaining salvation with respect to resurrection. Are all raised to eternal life? Scripture clearly and explicitly says not.

 

[Lizbeth]

St. SteVen said:
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

No. "Those who belong to Christ" is not there.
Who belongs to Adam?

Don't know how else to explain it?
Why not take it at face value? (without adding to or subtracting from the scriptures)

Do you need me to post the WHOLE passage again?

 

[St. SteVen]

Doesn't matter what anyone says, you will just continue choosing to ignore context and all the rest of scripture.

That saw cuts both ways.
Why do you assume that you are right and everyone else is wrong?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

No. "Those who belong to Christ" is not there.
Who belongs to Adam?

Don't know how else to explain it?
Why not take it at face value? (without adding to or subtracting from the scriptures)

Do you need me to post the WHOLE passage again?

Only if that would help you to understand verse 22-23.

 

[St. SteVen]

What does God's wrath do?

Burns away the impurities in order to restore the individual.

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything,
as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Mark 9:49 NIV
Everyone will be salted with fire.

Malachi 3:2 NIV
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears?
For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NIV
If anyone builds on this foundation using
gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 their work will be shown for what it is,
because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire,
and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—
even though only as one escaping through the flames.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves,
even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness,
and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[Lizbeth]

St. SteVen said:
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

No. "Those who belong to Christ" is not there.
Who belongs to Adam?

Don't know how else to explain it?
Why not take it at face value? (without adding to or subtracting from the scriptures)

Only if that would help you to understand verse 22-23.

You are continuing to isolate a single sentence there. That is not how to rightly divide scripture in general and what is being taught in that passage specifically as a whole.

All fallen humans belong to Adam in that we were born of his flesh....that is why all die. But not all belong to Christ and are "bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh".....not all humans are born of Christ's Spirit so as to be IN Christ. and inherit eternal life. Those who are in Christ are saved and will have part in the resurrection to life eternal. Unfortunately those who are outside of Christ will not. That is what the bible teaches. One must come to Christ in order to have life.

We are going in circles, and you continue to CHOOSE to defend your doctrine with isolated cherry picked verses while ignoring the passage as a whole and the entire thrust of the bible as a whole. That is your CHOICE, instead of allowing the scriptures to teach and correct you.

When are going to answer MY questions for a change and expound on the meaning of perish, destruction, perdition, wrath etc., and why the Lord is warning us about that all over the bible? I'm not responding to any more of your posts until you start answering some of my questions.

 

[St. SteVen]

All fallen humans belong to Adam in that we were born of his flesh....that is why all die. But not all belong to Christ and are "bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh".....not all humans are born of Christ's Spirit so as to be IN Christ. and inherit eternal life. Those who are in Christ are saved and will have part in the resurrection to life eternal. Unfortunately those who are outside of Christ will not. That is what the bible teaches. One must come to Christ in order to have life.

You have to juggle the words around in the verse to make that conclusion.
It doesn't say all in Christ, it says in Christ all.
And in terms of context, I take this to be a summary statement.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

We are going in circles, and you continue to CHOOSE to defend your doctrine with isolated cherry picked verses while ignoring the passage as a whole and the entire thrust of the bible as a whole. That is your CHOICE, instead of allowing the scriptures to teach and correct you.

You completely ignored the Romans five passage which supports 1 Corinthians 15:22.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

--- TOPICS ON THE WHOLE BIBLE VIEW ---

Why doesn't your "whole Bible view" include Universalism?​

Examining the supposed "Whole Bible" view. - No consensus?​

 

[St. SteVen]

When are going to answer MY questions for a change and expound on the meaning of perish, destruction, perdition, wrath etc., and why the Lord is warning us about that all over the bible? I'm not responding to any more of your posts until you start answering some of my questions.

You like to control the discussion. I may not play by your rules.

I think I already responded to "wrath". Post: #207
Which should have been sufficient.

Certainly I believe that there will be consequences in the afterlife.
Consequences intended to restore relationships.

Honestly, what is God about? Restoration or punishment?

In another topic about NDEs there were three videos of individuals that were clinically dead.
All three subjects recall being led through their life experiences to see where they hurt and helped others.
They experienced the pain of those they hurt and shared the joy of those they helped. Very interesting.
This tracks with what I believe about Universalism. There will be an age of restoration. (each in turn)

Atheist Dies; Shocked by Who She Met on the Other Side (Powerful NDE)

What do you make of this NDE? I see strong ties to my Universalist beliefs.

www.christianityboard.com

 

[soberxp]

Here is the A.i response about whether God can save all lost humanity according to the Bible:

---

**Based on the full text of the Bible, can God save all lost humanity?**

According to the comprehensive teaching of the Bible, God has the power to save all lost humanity. However, whether everyone is actually saved involves God’s will, human free response, and the conditions of salvation as revealed in Scripture.

1. **God’s desire is for all people to be saved**
The Bible clearly states that God “desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Timothy 2:4), and that He is “not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance” (2 Peter 3:9). This shows that God’s love and salvific will toward lost humanity are universal.

2. **God’s saving power is unlimited**
God is omnipotent (Jeremiah 32:17), and the redemption of Jesus Christ is sufficient to cover the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2: “He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world”). Therefore, from the perspective of ability, God is fully capable of saving every lost person.

3. **Salvation requires faith and repentance**
At the same time, the Bible emphasizes that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ (John 3:16: “whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life”) and repentance from sin (Acts 3:19). If a person rejects God’s grace, they obstruct their own salvation (Matthew 23:37: “How often I have longed to gather your children… but you were not willing”). Therefore, not all are saved not because God is unable, but because some choose not to believe.

4. **God does not violate His justice or human free will**
God respects the free will He has given to humanity, and His plan of salvation also includes judgment (Revelation 20:15). The Bible does not promise universalism (that all people will be unconditionally saved), but clearly states that some will face eternal destruction (Matthew 25:46).

**Conclusion**: God **can** save all lost humanity, because He has complete power and sufficient salvation. But according to the overall revelation of Scripture, God **in fact** does not predestine or force the salvation of every individual; rather, He requires people to receive salvation through faith and repentance. Those who remain lost do so because they reject God’s grace, not because God lacks power or love.

 

[St. SteVen]

Here is the A.i response about whether God can save all lost humanity according to the Bible:

That AI is a Damnationist. - LOL

 

[soberxp]

That AI is a Damnationist. - LOL

I think AI's answer is very objective.I understand how you feel. You want everyone to be saved.But have you ever thought about itMaybe someone really will.Reject God's grace forever.Because this is also a possible thing to happen.

 

[amigo de christo]

I think AI's answer is very objective.I understand how you feel. You want everyone to be saved.But have you ever thought about itMaybe someone really will.Reject God's grace forever.Because this is also a possible thing to happen.

Many hold onto sin and cares and pleasures in life . SO its not so much the fact they desired everyone to be sav ed ,
ITS MORE the fact they like an idea that all will and that GOD is okay with whatever they desire .
But if any has the true agape love of GOD shed upon their hearts , whose faith WAS IN JESUS CHRIST
THEY HAVE THE TRUE DESIRE for souls to be saved
AND ITS WHY THEY POINT TO JESUS and say YE MUST BELIEVE TO BE SAVED . that is THE LOVE OF GOD .
That we keep his commandments and his commandments are not grievious .
TO BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST and to love one another . No man who rejects JESUS is the Christ
has the Love of GOD in them . Nor would any who offer up false hope , which by that false hope
Actually DENEIS JESUS HIMSELF who SAID YE MUST BLEIEVE TO BE SAVED .
So let us keep that in mind . Be encouraged my friend .
A unversalist MIGHT THINK his or her desire is for souls to be saved .
BUT really its the idea they are fine and everyon e else will be fine
And that GOD is just fine with their own lustful hearts desire for whaterver lust held their heart captive .
You ever notice the apostels , WHO I KNOW LOVED THE LORD AND the peoples
ALWAYS went about with such a sense of urgency OF PREACHING JESUS and THE DIRE NEED To BELIEVE ON him .
With warnings about those who did not . BECAUSE THEY HAD the true agape love OF GOD shed upon their hearts .
SO TO JESUS THEY POINTED and offered up no false hope to any .

 

[St. SteVen]

I think AI's answer is very objective.I understand how you feel. You want everyone to be saved.But have you ever thought about itMaybe someone really will.Reject God's grace forever.Because this is also a possible thing to happen.

Humans live their lives here in constant search to better their situation. This is human nature.
Why would anyone settle for less than what God is providing in the afterlife?
I don't really think there is another choice than God's grace. Hell is a human invention.

 

[soberxp]

Humans live their lives here in constant search to better their situation. This is human nature.
Why would anyone settle for less than what God is providing in the afterlife?
I don't really think there is another choice than God's grace. Hell is a human invention.

Who really Knows?
I don't really Know about it.
Even if I know it,who will believe in me as if Divine authority?

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Humans live their lives here in constant search to better their situation. This is human nature.
Why would anyone settle for less than what God is providing in the afterlife?
I don't really think there is another choice than God's grace. Hell is a human invention.

Who really Knows?
I don't really Know about it.
Even if I know it,who will believe in me as if Divine authority?

What would be gained by rejecting God's grace forever?
Find a corner in hell to sit and pout? While the gates of heaven are open wide?

 

[soberxp]

St. SteVen said:
Humans live their lives here in constant search to better their situation. This is human nature.
Why would anyone settle for less than what God is providing in the afterlife?
I don't really think there is another choice than God's grace. Hell is a human invention.

What would be gained by rejecting God's grace forever?
Find a corner in hell to sit and pout? While the gates of heaven are open wide?

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[St. SteVen]

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

That supports what I am saying. Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. (= salvation)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

 

[soberxp]

That supports what I am saying. Every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. (= salvation)

1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says,
“Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart
that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Note on "acknowledge" in Philippians 2:11 from Strong's Concordance
S1843 eksomologéō (from 1537 /ek, "wholly out from," intensifying 3670 /homologéō, "say the same thing about") – properly, fully agree and to acknowledge that agreement openly (whole-heartedly); hence, to confess ("openly declare"), without reservation (no holding back).

But even if people are put on judgment, it also needs to be confess Jesus Christ is the Lord, and confess their mistakes.

Then the whole Bible will not contradict itself.