If Christianity is true
- Thread starter Matthias
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Answer: No. -> It’s a problem of the heart, not of the head.
Three reasons to deny any truth claim:
1. Rational
2. Emotional
3. Volitional
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Ok David... How can a world be Made through someone???
Jesus never claimed credit for the original Genesis creation of the heavens and the earth. He was in no doubt that the universe was God's handiwork.
Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,
Remember Jesus has a God…"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 1:3).
Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, (1Co 8:6)
Mar 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God (my Father) created until now, and never will be.
Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word (ῥῆμα/ rhēma) of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
Please note that the word used here is not Logos as it is used in John 1 but rhēma .
Observe in Colossians 1 that "all things" created are not “the heavens and the earth” as per Genesis 1:1, but rather “all things in the heavens and [up]on the earth." These things are defined as "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities." Evidently, Jesus has been given authority to restructure the arrangements of angels as well as being the agent for the creation of the body of Christ on earth, the Church.
How did you not know these things???
Now... David.... Let us mature Christians look at this word "through"
“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth”. Both verses say that the source of “all things” is the one true God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth and the Father of the Lord Jesus Christ. In contradistinction to this "one God and Father" out of Whom all things originate, the "one Lord, Jesus Messiah” is giving the preposition dia which means "through." In other words, Jesus is God's agent through whom God accomplishes His plan for our lives. This is a consistent pattern all the way through the N.T. God the Father is the source, the origin of all blessings, and Jesus His Son brings those blessings of salvation to us:
"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ" (2 Cor.5:18).
"God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ… has blessed us… in Christ. He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to himself” (Eph.1:3-5).
"For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:9).
"God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus” (Rom. 2:16).
"For God… has saved us, and called us... according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity" (2 Tim 1:9).
"Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has caused us to be born-again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead" (1 Peter 1:3).
"To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen" (Jude 25).
"Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which god performed through him in your midst" (Acts 2:22).
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Paul tell us in 1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through (dia) whom we exist.
Always God the Father is the source and origin of all works, deeds and salvation which come to us through the mediatorship of his son. From Him comes all to us through our Lord Jesus Christ so that to God the Father made all the praise be directed. The Father is the sole origin and Creator of "all things." In contrast, Jesus is the Father's commissioned Lord Messiah through whom God's plan for the world is coming to completion. The whole Bible from cover to cover categorically states that God created the universe and all the ages with Jesus Christ at the center of his eternal purpose. Jesus is the diameter running all the way through.
“The world was made through him,” i.e. with Christ in mind.
In the light of this background, it is far better to read John's prologue to mean that in the beginning God had a plan, a dream, a grand vision for the world, and a reason by which he brought all things into being. This word or plan was expressive of who He is.
CLV(John 1:1)
In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. " 2 This was in the beginning toward God. 3 All came into being through it, and apart from it not even one thing came into being which has come into being."
You have much to learn....
Very little that has been posted in this thread has anything to do with the OP.
And now a renewed Trinity fight - between “Christian” members - is about to break out?
My non-Christian target audience deserves better than this.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
LOL….I am beginning to wonder if you have a “non-Christian target audience” on a Christian Bible discussion site?
LOL….I am beginning to wonder if you have a “non-Christian target audience” on a Christian Bible discussion site?
I do. This is our forum. We are restricted here.
Don't change the subject....
EVERYONE read the previous post... "How was the world made through HIM"
This is why you fail... this is for both Christians and non-Christians... Do you actually think non-christians can't see the truth when you post crap verses that have nothing to do with the topic in the context of scripture... Perhaps you should start posting truth if you want to reach your non-Christian target audience...
Yet.... if you knew the truth... You would already know....
NASB Mar 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven."
Act 2:39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."
NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed
NASB 2Ti 2:10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of those who are chosen, so that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus and with it eternal glory.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
YOUR non-Christian target audience BETTER HAVE BEEN WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD....
Joh 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing (ie NAME IN THE BOOK OF LIFE), but raise it up on the last day.
Matthias.... How do you not know these things...
The subject is in the OP. Not me. Not the Trinity. A specific question put to non-Christians.
If you would like to put the question to “Christian” members, you may do so in one of the many “Christians Only” forums.
But I did not talk about any Trinity.... so go back to how the world can be made through someone.... Your missing John's whole point!!!
The topic of this thread is a question for non-Christian members to respond to. (See again post #1). If you’re a non-Christian member than I invite you to respond to it.
I’ve addressed what you’re wanting to talk about in threads where that is the topic. Please stop derailing my thread.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
Is there a reason why these ones are not responding?
Is the question too confronting?
There’s always a reason.
Maybe we’ll find out yet from one of them. Maybe we won’t.
Rephrasing the question, with the hope of making it abundantly clear who I’m putting the question to:
If Christianity is true, would you, a non-Christian, become a Christian?
Contrasting the question in the OP with what I’m not asking:
If Christianity is true, would you, a Christian, become a Christian?
I don’t think I can make the target audience of this thread any clearer than I have by this rephrasing and contrasting.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The very BEST from God Heart to the audience.
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The target audience were all made in the image of God.
Therefore the target audience will answer that question based on what God has spoken.
How else would a person, made in the image of God, answer a question without being able to properly asses that which the question is asking?
Yes.
Target audience: atheists, agnostics, non-Christians. In general, people who don’t care. (The subtitle of the video clip in post #14.) Experience tells me that, in addition to not caring, they probably don’t know - or know little about - what God has spoken.
They aren’t able to properly assess. The whole point of asking the question is to elicit a yes or no response from the non-Christian.
It should be fairly obvious that a yes response invites examining the evidence for Christianity with the non-Christian person.
A no response presents two options: (1)walk away; end of conversation or (2) push a little further; continue the conversation keeping the three reasons in mind why people deny any truth claim (post #42).
Maybe the non-Christian person can be moved from no to yes. Finding out why the person is a no (which of the three reasons applies) helps us understand where to begin with that person.
The question is an evaluation tool for Christians to use in conversation with non-Christians.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
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