If churches are failing, how can they be improved

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

ScottA

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2011
13,321
6,305
113
www.FinishingTheMystery.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Don't you think God who wants us to walk in truth?
Will provide some teachers that are sound and good, which need to be sorted out of the many?

James 3:1 tells us....

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know
that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

Note what it says?
"Not many."

Add to that.

2 Timothy 4:3, tells us there will be many bad teachers. Those who will tell people what they want to hear,
rather, then being able to tell believers what they are needing to hear!

The problem is outlined right here!

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires,
they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
I found a few good over the years.
Here is one excellent teacher that I am so glad I found by God's grace through prayer.
R. B. Thieme, Jr., Bible Ministries | Home



Grace and peace!
Indeed, there are a few. However, what is foretold is very limited. Here are a few indicators, and what we should expect:

Mark 13:11
But when they arrest you and deliver you up, do not worry beforehand, or premeditate what you will speak. But whatever is given you in that hour, speak that; for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Revelation 10:7
but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.​
PS, Unfortunately, destructive doctrines were allowed by God, causing many good teachers to be unaware. It can even be said, that for a time, what has been taught was meant for good by God, that under the blindness of apostacy many generations and people would be added to the fold. The end of which would be the finish of the mystery of God that has remained sealed since Daniel and since John.
 
Last edited:

MatthewG

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2021
16,886
5,555
113
34
Fyffe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Big Boy Johnson, It's all perception.


In my opinion, www.thegreatnewsnetwork.com is a viable source for anyone looking for verse by verse teachings on the bible.

The Great News Network (TGNN) is led by Shawn and Delaney McCraney, a father and daughter who’ve (apart and together) spent decades discovering, teaching, and living out The Great News — a fulfilled perspective of faith beyond religion.

There are times were the Bible can be very boring. That is just facts... our flesh hates anything to do with it. That is my perception anyway.
 

The Gospel of Christ

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2025
675
334
63
54
Virginia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
But you enjoy doing it so much, it makes one wonder.

And, do not quote theologians as if you are quoting Scripture.
For some of them hated Jews....

Refute the Word of God quoted in post #41.
Not your feelings — not your emotional projections — the actual text.

Then refute the words of the early Church Fathers, the ones who lived, bled, and died to defend the Gospel before America, Scofield, or Zionism even existed. I literally have thousands of quotes like those that span over a thousand years..

All confirming one truth:

Israel is in Christ, or it is nothing.

And what do you bring?
Accusations of racism because the Bible and Church history don’t flatter your theology?

That’s not an argument.
That’s deflection.

If the truth feels like hatred to you, maybe that says more about the state of your heart than the state of my words.

Come back when you have something stronger than feelings.
Until then, the Word of God stands — and it doesn’t apologize.
 
Last edited:

Brakelite

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2020
10,097
7,268
113
Melbourne
brakelite.wordpress.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Getting it right about Israel isn't going to cure the church of worldliness and lukewarmness, but it certainly will force apart the current Zionist links between church and state. That can only be a good thing.

Who is true Israel? Is it the physical nation fighting for its existence in the Middle East, or is it the spiritual entity we know as the church. And if it is the church, which one?

The name "Israel" first appears in the Bible in Genesis 32:28. After a night of wrestling with the heavenly visitor (who I personally believe to be Christ Himself) Jacob prevails in his efforts and his name is changed from Jacob, the deceiver or supplanter, to Israel, meaning he will rule. Jacob has prevailed with God and overcome.

At the time of this event, Jacob was reluctant to face Esau after 20 years of exile and was quite simply terrified of him. His former deception of his father and claim to be Esau was now playing on his conscience and he desired God's blessing and forgiveness before proceeding. So the 'Angel' asks Jacob his name, to which he truthfully replies 'my name is Jacob'. In this he was confessing his guilt, and God then knew he was a changed man, so gave him a new name that celebrated so to speak his victory over sin, self and his night of wrestling in prayer, the 'Angel' saying "for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."
Israel, as a name therefore represents spiritual victory over sin.

Is this real Israel?
This is significant as it tells us God's purpose for His people. That is, to live in victory over sin, to show forth God's true character to the world.

In Exod 4:22,23 Moses is instructed on how he is to speak to Pharaoh in order that Israel's descendants may be freed from slavery. God says to Moses "and thou shalt say unto Pharaoh 'Thus saith the Lord,Israel is My son, my firstborn and I say unto thee let My son go to serve me..."
This is the first time Israel is used in a corporate sense for the entire nation. Before it applied only to an individual, but here we see it being applied to his descendants. First to a victorious man, then to his people.
Did Israel live up to that name? What was God trying to accomplish in establishing Israel in the first place? Was it not that He would have a people to represent Him on the earth? Before God had His champions, but all failed. Sin interposed and no longer was any of God's chosen able to fulfill the true destiny that God intended for them. Adam failed over appetite. So did Noah. Abraham also, but God was determined to establish a people after His own heart and show the gentiles His law, His mercy and grace and power. Interesting that Adam, Noah, and Israel all failed on points of appetite. (Gen 9:20,21; Exodus 16:27-29.)

It wasn't until Jesus came on the scene in person that the title "Israel" in it's truest spiritual sense and power could be rightly bestowed. And Mathew in particular showed this time and time again how Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT prophecies which may have originally applied to the nation, but now, according to Mathew's inspired writings, applied in fact to Jesus. Examples are Hosea 11:1 ; Isaiah 41:8,42:1-3 .

Or is the spiritual entity we know as the 'church', true Israel?
Paul followed the same idea and reasoning by paralleling Col 1:15 with Ex 4:22, Gal 3:16 with Isaiah 41:8 and elsewhere.

Jesus Himself proclaimed Himself as the true vine, in fulfilment of Ps 80:8 which applied to the nation.
So now the mantle and authority once bestowed upon the nation has been given to Jesus. Jesus is the essence of true Israel. He only has the right to bear the name for He only has prevailed with sin and overcome. Jesus walked over the same ground that Israel walked, but came through victorious. In His temptations in the wilderness, it was appetite that came under particular scrutiny.

What Paul does in Romans and other writers in the NT however is extend that idea and show how the name Israel also now applies to Jesus' descendants, just as it did to Jacob's descendants. Peter also showed this when he compared the church to Exodus 19:6.(1 Peter 2:9).
So as Paul says, immediately after saying that Jesus is the 'seed' of Abraham, Gentile converts in Galatia were now also Abraham's seed because they are Christ's. They are also heirs according to the promise.

This is not 'replacement ' theology. It is merely a revelation of who true Israel always was and who Israel is now. It is those people, of whatever nation kindred tongue and people, who by faith in the mercy grace and power of God overcome sin and receive Christ's righteousness and forgiveness as a gift and are willing to share that gift with the lost. True Israel was always exclusively those who "as princes had power with God and men and prevailed".

Thus the unfulfilled covenant that Jeremiah speaks of and repeated in hebrews, "I will place My laws in their hearts and in their minds I will write them" applies to the church, not a resurgent nation. All Israel will be saved, but the descendants of Jesus, not flesh and blood descendants of Jacob.

And the prophecies that most believe apply to the nation, apply to the church. For example, Armageddon is not the world arrayed against the nation of Israel, but the unsaved world (those who have accepted the mark) arrayed against the remnant who have refused the mark, and are under the sentence of death. Those who keep the commandments of God, (and thus have gained that victory over sin) and have the faith of Jesus. Rev.12:17; 14:12.
 

The Gospel of Christ

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2025
675
334
63
54
Virginia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Getting it right about Israel isn't going to cure the church of worldliness and lukewarmness, but it certainly will force apart the current Zionist links between church and state. That can only be a good thing.

Who is true Israel? Is it the physical nation fighting for its existence in the Middle East, or is it the spiritual entity we know as the church. And if it is the church, which one?

The name "Israel" first appears in the Bible in Genesis 32:28. After a night of wrestling with the heavenly visitor (who I personally believe to be Christ Himself) Jacob prevails in his efforts and his name is changed from Jacob, the deceiver or supplanter, to Israel, meaning he will rule. Jacob has prevailed with God and overcome.

At the time of this event, Jacob was reluctant to face Esau after 20 years of exile and was quite simply terrified of him. His former deception of his father and claim to be Esau was now playing on his conscience and he desired God's blessing and forgiveness before proceeding. So the 'Angel' asks Jacob his name, to which he truthfully replies 'my name is Jacob'. In this he was confessing his guilt, and God then knew he was a changed man, so gave him a new name that celebrated so to speak his victory over sin, self and his night of wrestling in prayer, the 'Angel' saying "for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."
Israel, as a name therefore represents spiritual victory over sin.

Is this real Israel?
This is significant as it tells us God's purpose for His people. That is, to live in victory over sin, to show forth God's true character to the world.

In Exod 4:22,23 Moses is instructed on how he is to speak to Pharaoh in order that Israel's descendants may be freed from slavery. God says to Moses "and thou shalt say unto Pharaoh 'Thus saith the Lord,Israel is My son, my firstborn and I say unto thee let My son go to serve me..."
This is the first time Israel is used in a corporate sense for the entire nation. Before it applied only to an individual, but here we see it being applied to his descendants. First to a victorious man, then to his people.
Did Israel live up to that name? What was God trying to accomplish in establishing Israel in the first place? Was it not that He would have a people to represent Him on the earth? Before God had His champions, but all failed. Sin interposed and no longer was any of God's chosen able to fulfill the true destiny that God intended for them. Adam failed over appetite. So did Noah. Abraham also, but God was determined to establish a people after His own heart and show the gentiles His law, His mercy and grace and power. Interesting that Adam, Noah, and Israel all failed on points of appetite. (Gen 9:20,21; Exodus 16:27-29.)

It wasn't until Jesus came on the scene in person that the title "Israel" in it's truest spiritual sense and power could be rightly bestowed. And Mathew in particular showed this time and time again how Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT prophecies which may have originally applied to the nation, but now, according to Mathew's inspired writings, applied in fact to Jesus. Examples are Hosea 11:1 ; Isaiah 41:8,42:1-3 .

Or is the spiritual entity we know as the 'church', true Israel?
Paul followed the same idea and reasoning by paralleling Col 1:15 with Ex 4:22, Gal 3:16 with Isaiah 41:8 and elsewhere.

Jesus Himself proclaimed Himself as the true vine, in fulfilment of Ps 80:8 which applied to the nation.
So now the mantle and authority once bestowed upon the nation has been given to Jesus. Jesus is the essence of true Israel. He only has the right to bear the name for He only has prevailed with sin and overcome. Jesus walked over the same ground that Israel walked, but came through victorious. In His temptations in the wilderness, it was appetite that came under particular scrutiny.

What Paul does in Romans and other writers in the NT however is extend that idea and show how the name Israel also now applies to Jesus' descendants, just as it did to Jacob's descendants. Peter also showed this when he compared the church to Exodus 19:6.(1 Peter 2:9).
So as Paul says, immediately after saying that Jesus is the 'seed' of Abraham, Gentile converts in Galatia were now also Abraham's seed because they are Christ's. They are also heirs according to the promise.

This is not 'replacement ' theology. It is merely a revelation of who true Israel always was and who Israel is now. It is those people, of whatever nation kindred tongue and people, who by faith in the mercy grace and power of God overcome sin and receive Christ's righteousness and forgiveness as a gift and are willing to share that gift with the lost. True Israel was always exclusively those who "as princes had power with God and men and prevailed".

Thus the unfulfilled covenant that Jeremiah speaks of and repeated in hebrews, "I will place My laws in their hearts and in their minds I will write them" applies to the church, not a resurgent nation. All Israel will be saved, but the descendants of Jesus, not flesh and blood descendants of Jacob.

And the prophecies that most believe apply to the nation, apply to the church. For example, Armageddon is not the world arrayed against the nation of Israel, but the unsaved world (those who have accepted the mark) arrayed against the remnant who have refused the mark, and are under the sentence of death. Those who keep the commandments of God, (and thus have gained that victory over sin) and have the faith of Jesus. Rev.12:17; 14:12.


You got so close to the truth you could feel the heat, but then you wrapped it in ambiguity and softened the edge.

The Gospel doesn’t ‘redefine’ Israel.
It claims Israel.
It transfers the title deed to Christ — and to those in Him.
Not by bloodline, not by Torah.
But by the cross.

This isn’t about who “rules” or “overcomes appetite.”
It’s about who follows the Son.

He is True Israel — and His Body is the only covenant of people God recognizes on Earth.

Anything less isn’t theology, it’s Zionist propaganda dressed up in scripture to sell a covenant God already ended 2,000 years ago.

And not a single Christian on Earth believed any of this until John Nelson Darby conjured it up in the 1830s — and Scofield, backed by the Dragon, bushwhacked America with it during the Great Depression.

Period. The End.
 
Last edited:

The Gospel of Christ

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2025
675
334
63
54
Virginia
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What misled Christians are doing here is playing the trans-insanity game with the Jews — just on a religious level.
Just like men claim to be women and demand affirmation, they're claiming a covenant that isn’t theirs and demanding the Church not only go along with it, but bow to their delusion.

But the Gospel of Jesus Christ obliterates those claims.
God doesn’t honor self-identification or genealogies.
He honors the cross.

Even the Puritans would’ve seen through the 1948 hijack of Palestine — bought by Rothschilds, backed by Rockefellers, and anointed not by God, but by propaganda and war.

But in 1909, they began rewiring the mind of the Church.
Scofield replaced scripture.
Darby replaced doctrine.

And they manipulated you into forgetting who you are in Christ.

Now you’re pledging allegiance to a covenant God ended 2,000 years ago and calling it “prophecy.”

It’s not, it’s absolute insanity.
Stop going along with it.

Wake up and repent.
Come back to the cross — or keep serving the Dragon whose spell and veil you're firmly under.
 
Last edited: