If no Rapture - then what ?

[veteran]

People with dementia have trouble remembering things, suffer hallucinations, have delusions, and become paranoid. They also are generally unable to recognize the symptoms in themselves.

Jesus of Nazareth, who was actually Joshua, son of Joseph, of the house of David, of the tribe of Judah, was a man of 100% flesh, born of a virgin named Mary (or actually Miriam) in Bethlehem (not Nazareth), and without a natural father, but was begotten by the power of the Holy Spirit. As the Son of God, He is of the same Spirit as God the Father, and in this has complete equality with God, but subjects Himself to His Father, the two still being One (echad). The Holy Spirit is One like Jesus, Who is given to indwell those who have believed the Lord and takes the things of Jesus and gives them to us, so that Jesus may be glorified in and through us, just as He glorified His Father. These three are One, and the really amazing part is that His intent is to make men One in Him (but only those who receive Him by faith.)

By the way, when Peter denied Jesus, the Holy Spirit was not yet given to indwell men. This only happened after the resurrection of our Lord.

Excellent. I also like to know where people are coming from that I converse with here.

Then you tell me why Jesus said they should pray their flight is not on the Sabbath if he is referring to the 7 year tribulation.

Have to put that Scripture in the context where it was given...

Mark 13:14
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
(KJV)

Mark 13:18
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
(KJV)

That's not about the time of Christ's coming and a so-called 'rapture'. It's about the time when the abomination idol is setup in Jerusalem like Jesus warned.

This is a non-response. You haven't quoted one source from anywhere, let alone reading through the early Church fathers. When did I say it impossible to know about Christ's warnings for the end? I said I don't believe in a 1,000 year literal reign of Christ but that this number is symbolic (like the 10 days of testing some of the churches would endure as stated earlier in the book...not 10 literal days). I told you that I understand that many in the 1st century church were historic premillennialists. I also said there were many in the 1st and 2nd century that were amillennialists. Clearly there was not one view that everyone agreed on. So lets quit acting like there was one view that everyone believed and it wasn't until hundreds of years later a different view was invented that went against the clear teaching of the Bible.

It's a very valid response I gave you, because the early Church fathers DID... write about the events to occur at the end of this world, and about the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem to sit in a temple playing God. Quite obvious you've failed to research all that for yourself. I'll not do it for you. Their writings are readily available. And I do NOT recognize your term "historic premillennialists", for that's just some seminary label later men's doctrines came up with that the early Church themselves never used. I feel the same way about all such seminary labels, they do nothing to establish the real Truth that's written in God's Word. They're more like a play on politics. So can you cover your thoughts without such labels, and stick to the simplicity that is God's Word? I can.

Veteran, you have a propensity to cloud everything by your own perception.

No, I just choose to not play games with God's Word like you're trying to do.

As I said before....ad nauseum...I don't believe in a literal 1000 year millennial reign. So of course I don't believe Zech 14 is referring to a 1000 year literal millennial reign. I believe it could very well be referring to the 2nd Coming. In my view, the 2nd coming comes AFTER the symbolic 1000 year millennial reign, which is occurring right now! Currently the Gospel is binding Satan by freeing those he has enslaved. Currently people are being raised in Christ and are born again. Currently, believers are overcoming the world and the devil. Currently, saints who have endured in the faith and died in Christ are living and reigning with him. This will not happen one day in the future, but is happening now (in my humble opinion). So yes, I believe Zech 14 is likely a reference to the 2nd Coming, the Day of the Lord, and no, I do not believe it is picturing a 1000 year literal reign of Jesus on the earth. Clear?

I know you do NOT... believe in a LITERAL "thousand years" reign by Christ Jesus and His elect priests and kings that will start at His return. So what? Doesn't mean you're correct just because you've chosen to believe a doctrine of man that denies that Biblical fact as written in Rev.20, and pointing directly to in Zech.14 (and other Scriptures also like Ezek.38 thru 47, Rev.22:14-15, etc.).

The Zech.14 Scriptures is pointing directly to the time of Christ's 2nd coming. And it is pointing directly to the final event of this world with the nations gathered around Jerusalem so as to pour God's wrath upon them. And it is pointing directly to the time right AFTER that "day of the LORD" event, with those who came up against Jerusalem that are left coming up to Zion to worship Christ The KING from year to year, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. Zech.14 is also directly pointing to God's River of the Waters of Life, and to a change of the physical layout in portions of the holy lands. It's also directly pointing to the event of God's consuming fire that will end this present world on "the day of the LORD" which God's OT prophets were given to write about, which Apostle Peter also wrote about (2 Peter 3:10). That's when the eyes of the destroyed wicked that come up against Jerusalem will melt in their sockets.

Just as with all the Books of God's Old Testament prophets, the event timing flow changes back and forth. Zechariah is no different, even within the Zechariah 14 chapter itself.

But you... have not studied these things written in God's Word, but instead deny them from the outset, just so you can keep your 'own' tradition! Because of you're doing that, God will remove from your understanding what little you already think you know, so that you will eventually come to know He is The GOD and not those men who you listen to instead of Him.

 

[Wormwood]

But you... have not studied these things written in God's Word, but instead deny them from the outset, just so you can keep your 'own' tradition! Because of you're doing that, God will remove from your understanding what little you already think you know, so that you will eventually come to know He is The GOD and not those men who you listen to instead of Him.

Very disappointing. After such a well thought out response in the other forum, you go back to your ravings and name-calling here. I had hoped things were going to change. I wont have this conversation with you as long as you write like this. You keep talking about knowing the Word and having the meat of the Word, but you write bitter words filled with hateful accusations and self-aggrandizing assertions. You continually spout rash words about people and schools you know nothing about. If you really knew the Word as you claim you know it, you would be obedient to it and love your neighbor as yourself. You would obey the words of God in Philippians that say you should consider others before yourself or in 1 Corinthians that teaches that knowledge puffs up but love builds up. You are committed not to building anyone up but tearing people down. Even if I am wrong, does that excuse these kinds of comments? The church is made up of people and those people have the Spirit of the living God. Some of which that Spirit has empowered to teach and edify, and you mock such people as though you need no one but yourself. You have no understanding of the Word of God and no grasp of the body of Christ or else you would not be so quick to hatefully judge those who serve God and others with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. Go learn what "I desire mercy..." means since you have such flawless understanding of God and all the things written in his Word.

 

[veteran]

Very disappointing. After such a well thought out response in the other forum, you go back to your ravings and name-calling here. I had hoped things were going to change. I wont have this conversation with you as long as you write like this. You keep talking about knowing the Word and having the meat of the Word, but you write bitter words filled with hateful accusations and self-aggrandizing assertions. You continually spout rash words about people and schools you know nothing about. If you really knew the Word as you claim you know it, you would be obedient to it and love your neighbor as yourself. You would obey the words of God in Philippians that say you should consider others before yourself or in 1 Corinthians that teaches that knowledge puffs up but love builds up. You are committed not to building anyone up but tearing people down. Even if I am wrong, does that excuse these kinds of comments? The church is made up of people and those people have the Spirit of the living God. Some of which that Spirit has empowered to teach and edify, and you mock such people as though you need no one but yourself. You have no understanding of the Word of God and no grasp of the body of Christ or else you would not be so quick to hatefully judge those who serve God and others with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. Go learn what "I desire mercy..." means since you have such flawless understanding of God and all the things written in his Word.

The only one you should be angry at is yourself for having thought that denying Scripture as written like Rev.20 could get you somewhere other than confusion.