If OSAS is false, then what?

[Lambano]

Peter told simeon Your money PERISH with you , for ye have thought the gift of God could be purchased with money .
DID that make peter a hater . Nope .

Technically, Peter told him to go into ἀπώλεια, the place of Destruction. A better translation would be, "You and your silver go to Hell together!".

Just another piece of Bible trivia my mind is always picking up.

 

[quietthinker]

Do you pray "Forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those who trespass against us?" And if you do, does that negate your belief in OSAS because you are acknowledging sin?

Jesus prayer reads, You forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Using the personal pronoun of 'You' is valid in interpreting this text. In other words, any judgement one makes of others is made on oneself.

Someone before had told me that OSAS people don't sin, but when I asked what you call it if one does something wrong, and , they said something like "It's not really a sin, it's something else. Anyone know where this is in the Bible?
James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

All the fancy footwork done to negate guilt and sin knows no end. A denial results in twisting the words to suit the carnal nature. And what is it that accompanies this exercise if it ain't a pious image?

Fooling oneself on this matter is like smoking. One can bark and belch all one likes about being immune to its effects yet maintained for long enough it will kill you.

 

[Renniks]

Ok. I think i’m seeing where yall arminians are coming from. And its a bit scary to me. From what yall have said, i would be considered saved.
I could never be arminian, yall see things as being much easier, simpler, and more joyful than i do. Yall must see God much more differently than i do as well. No wonder yall dont worry about judgement day. If i was armenian, i wouldnt either. Wow, i honestly never realized how different calvinism is from armenianism. But i’ll always be calvinist.

How can you be either if you aren't saved?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, Satan would definitely say "NOSAS is satanic".

Nah, Satan would never say that. He wants people to lack faith and trust in God. Nosas was created by him.

 

[Lambano]

Jesus prayer reads, You forgive us our sins as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Using the personal pronoun of 'You' is valid in interpreting this text. In other words, any judgement one makes of others is made on oneself.

Sorry, no. ἄφες ("Aphiemi", to forgive) is in the Imperative mood, not the Indicative. That makes it either a command or a request. Since God is the addressee, I think it's safe to conclude it is a request.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let me explain Reformation Arminian theology again. You need to know what Arminians really believe. Justification is by faith. Salvation is by grace through faith. Sola Fide, the motto of the Reformation. You should know this. You cannot lose your salvation by sin; if you lose it, it is by abandoning faith in Christ. And make no mistake about it; people can and do abandon the faith. One of the main purposes of Hebrews is to warn believers of that danger. And do not interpret abandonment as “they were never saved to begin with”; that is imposing Calvinist theology onto Arminian theology.

Pay attention; this will be on the pop quiz.

You can not lose salvation period.

Claiming one can lose salvation by abandoning faith is just another way to say we must earn salvation. Its really no different than saying we can sin ourselves out of salvation. It places the onus on eternity on the person. Not on God.

1 John defeats this loss of faith issue, by claiming they were never of us, If they (these unbelievers who were once with us) were of us they never would have left.

its one of the reasons I reject both Calvinistic views and Armenian views.

Calvin did not say they were never of us, The apostle john did. That's one of the first things we have to remember

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don’t see where you’re getting that. 1 John 5:13 is exhorting his readers to continue on in the faith, not guaranteeing that they will.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

read the verse. what is the basis of continuing in faith.

the knowledge they HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.

Its not our faith that keeps us believing, it is the knowledge we have eternity in hand, and eternity is forever, it can not be lost

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is a strange conclusion. Actually lots of people would say that OSAS is easy believism. If you can't lose your salvation no matter what why try not to sin?
Unbelief is what causes you to lose your salvation. It's the only sin that can't be forgiven. We are saved by faith and only losing faith can lead to loss of salvation.
Actually for Calvinism, it's "perseverance of the Saints," not OSAS.

This shows a lack of understanding of eternal security and why a person is led to grow in christ not sin.

OSAS is not a license to sin. A person who thinks sin is ok or not hurtfull has never repented.. They can preach OSAS all they want. They have not repented.. if they did. they would not think this.

remember, the law causes sin to increase. Not service God.

A person only loses faith when the person their trust is in fails.. God never fails us. But even that is not the issue., Salvation is faith in God to save us. Not sure why anyone would trust God to save us then all of a sudden repent back to think God can not do what he promised.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

OSAS is a false doctrine ,all one has to do is look at the (IF'S) in the Word.

Every promise that God gave has a (IF) attached to it

For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH, but HAS ETERNAL LIFE.. - No if attached.

when it comes to the gospel. There are no ifs because we can not meet any requirements which would allow God to pass over our sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS, which has always been a major red flag for me.

if its grace it is not of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,

A concept which seems foreign to far to many people.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Doubt it. If God keep killing people for lying to Spirit of God, this world would be much less crowded.....

I doubt any of us would be alive if that was the case.. if we are honest.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I just don't get it.

I asked this several months ago and all I got was some flack.

If you get angry with someone, in a a fight or something, and you are OSAS from a few years back, but you injure someone, and the police see you and shoot you, and you die, are you still saved?

if I may

Does God keep his promises? If he WAS saved, Yes, He is still saved because God promised he had eternal life.

Or if you commit what we otherlings would consider sin, and you don't ask forgiveness since you don't sin, are you still saved?
Do you pray "Forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those who trespass against us?" And if you do, does that negate your belief in OSAS because you are acknowledging sin?

Do we know every sin we commit on a given day. How many sins do we commit we either did not know they were sin, or forgot because we were so busy with life?

if asking forgiveness is required, we are in serious danger. no one would survive

Someone before had told me that OSAS people don't sin, but when I asked what you call it if one does something wrong, and , they said something like "It's not really a sin, it's something else. Anyone know where this is in the Bible?
James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Please enlighten me, I do not understand.

OSAS people usually base their life on the fact that we are sinners, and are grateful to our father who loves us in spite of ourselves.

I do saly know a few people who claim osas that think they do not sin, I pray for God to open their eyes.

 

[Cassandra]

if asking forgiveness is required, we are in serious danger. no one would survive

Then why is it in the Lord's prayer? Jesus said we were supposed to.

Matt 6:9-12

"9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

The bolded part above is not a request. It is a tell.

 

[bbyrd009]

For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH, but HAS ETERNAL LIFE.. - No if attached.

when it comes to the gospel. There are no ifs because we can not meet any requirements which would allow God to pass over our sin.

”For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH…” there is an “if” implied in “whoever” i think

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then why is it in the Lord's prayer? Jesus said we were supposed to.

Matt 6:9-12

"9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

The bolded part above is not a request. It is a tell.

He did not say we must confess to be forgiven.

God also tells us to confess our sins to each other for healing.

I confess my sins to God. but if I think I remember or know every sin I commit on a daily basis. I am decieved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

”For god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him will NEVER PERISH…” there is an “if” implied in “whoever” i think

that's a WHO (a believer vs a non believer)

Not an IF

And eternal life is a given, Not conditional life.. So it is not a requirement to keep your salvation.

 

[amigo de christo]

Technically, Peter told him to go into ἀπώλεια, the place of Destruction. A better translation would be, "You and your silver go to Hell together!".

Just another piece of Bible trivia my mind is always picking up.

And notice how that grave rebuke actually worked . The man got scared and asked for prayer .
This is why i believe the church must be much more serious when it sees error amongst the brethren .
Now , let all that has breath praise the glorious LORD . And let us be encouraged in the Holy scrips , in our glorious Lord .
Being hearers and doers of all things He did teach . The LORD is with the lambs .

 

[amigo de christo]

if its grace it is not of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace,

A concept which seems foreign to far to many people.

When the grace of GOD appears , it teaches us to do something .
The problem is that many are under another kind of grace , and another kind of gospel , and another jesus .
Let us simply learn all things JESUS taught and the apostels . Let us take heed to all IFS and every word .
For the SPIRIT knows how to keep a lamb safe and from falling . But if we dont heed the Spirit
IF we dont take serious the warnings , If we dont do as JESUS said and if we dont beleive in what HE said
Who are we truly following . Now JESUS himself makes very clear that IN HE ALONE is eternal life .
HE also makes it very clear HE or she who endures to the end the same shall be saved .
SO i say lets just trust in what HE said . Everything HE DID and does is for our own good .
Just trust in HIM . IN HE ALONE IS SALVATION . IT IS BY GRACE through Faith in CHRIST . IT IS .
But again many are following another kind of grace . ONE that omits things JESUS both said and taught .
The grace of GOD dont do that . JESUS SAVES . But we better know what JESUS we follow . We better
as peter would say make that election and calling sure . AKA WE BETTER KNOW ITS THE BIBLICAL JESUS
we BELIEVE IN and DO FOLLOW . Cause no other version of jesus can save .

 

[Cassandra]

He did not say we must confess to be forgiven.

God also tells us to confess our sins to each other for healing.

I confess my sins to God. but if I think I remember or know every sin I commit on a daily basis. I am decieved.

No one is asking you to remember every sin,( no one said anything about that) but you can ask for forgiveness in general.

We are to confess our faults one to another. God hears the sins.

 

[amigo de christo]

Learn those bibles well . Learn that CHRIST , learn the apostels doctrine , learn that biblical doctrine well .
Follow the voice of the great shepard and do test all things men do teach against what JESUS First taught
and what later the apostel would expound on and teach . OMIT NOT A WORD OF IT .
Every word , every IF , every thing recored was done for our own good . Learn it well . TRUST IN CHRIST
and beware of men , for many are teaching things they ought not , many have left off beholding both the goodness
and severity of GOD . Many have made shipwreck concering the true faith and all who do swim in their doctrines
are drowning under their delusion . Look well to the things recorded in that bible . Learn it well .
Our hope is in THE LORD , make sure its THE LORD one follows and not what many have taught is the Lord .
Learn those sayings well . Cling to them . Heed them , embrace them and love them , obey HIM .
And beware , for we have many decievers that have abounded and a delusion grows very fast in these days .
Learn thy bible , learn thy GOD , LEARN HIS CHRIST and learn that pattern well . TIE IT about thy neck
and HEED the SPIRIT and not the flesh .