If OSAS is false, then what?

[Eternally Grateful]

No one is asking you to remember every sin,( no one said anything about that) but you can ask for forgiveness in general.

We are to confess our faults one to another. God hears the sins.

Yes..

But the question was in regards to OSAS and are you still being saved.

So in that context was my remarks.

We should confess. to god and others.

But is it required to stay saved? That is the question

 

[bbyrd009]

that's a WHO (a believer vs a non believer)

Not an IF

And eternal life is a given, Not conditional life.. So it is not a requirement to keep your salvation.

well, ok, but im pretty comfortable with “whoever = if someone”

 

[Enoch111]

OSAS isn't true as the bible points out. But I also think it's true that God doesn't give up on people. He selects people and saves them.

However, you can't have it both ways. If OSAS is not true then neither does God select people and save them. Because that would be eternal salvation. Therefore whether God selects people and saves them , or whether people respond to the Gospel and are saved, it is eternal salvation.

 

[dev553344]

However, you can't have it both ways. If OSAS is not true then neither does God select people and save them. Because that would be eternal salvation. Therefore whether God selects people and saves them , or whether people respond to the Gospel and are saved, it is eternal salvation.

I don't follow your logic.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't follow your logic.

When God does something it is permanent. So if He selects some and saves them it is eternal salvation. That automatically cancels the denial of the eternal security of the believer.

 

[dev553344]

When God does something it is permanent. So if He selects some and saves them it is eternal salvation. That automatically cancels the denial of the eternal security of the believer.

Not entirely. With OSAS it is the believer that say they are saved. If God says it then it's true. There is a difference. God saving people is not OSAS.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

The is neither Jew nor Greek,there is neither bond nor free,there is neither male nor female: for ye all are one in Christ Jesus.
Gal.3:28
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision,Barbarian,Scythian,bond,nor free: but Christ is all,and in all.
Colossians 3:11
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for IT IS the POWER of God unto SALVATION to EVERYONE that BELIEVETH; to the Jew first,and also to the Greek.
Rms.1:16
Rms.10: 38.............................. for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.


Do any of these verses label BELIEVERS?

Is there any criteria above for sayinging I'm Baptist ? OSAS? Calvinist ?Preterist? Church of Christ? Ammillienist? Pentecostal? Methodist? Premillienist ?,Lutheran? Anglican? Presbyterian? Protestant? Legalist ? Law keeper? etc ect .......?

IT is or should be what God does in a life to be acceptable and pleasing to him,according to his word.......NOT WHAT A MAN,ORGANISATION OR ENTITY SAYS!!!!!!!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I just don't get it.

I asked this several months ago and all I got was some flack.

If you get angry with someone, in a a fight or something, and you are OSAS from a few years back, but you injure someone, and the police see you and shoot you, and you die, are you still saved?
Or if you commit what we otherlings would consider sin, and you don't ask forgiveness since you don't sin, are you still saved?
Do you pray "Forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those who trespass against us?" And if you do, does that negate your belief in OSAS because you are acknowledging sin?

Someone before had told me that OSAS people don't sin, but when I asked what you call it if one does something wrong, and , they said something like "It's not really a sin, it's something else. Anyone know where this is in the Bible?
James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Please enlighten me, I do not understand.

hello cassandra, im not sure what your beliefs are, but im a calvinist, and we believe in OSAS. The key question is, was a person actually saved to begin with.
To answer your question, yes, even if you injure someone, you will remain saved, as did david when he had uriah killed.
I dont know many Calvinist folk who would tell you that they no longer sin. Most calvinists i know have a greater understanding of just how bad a sinner they are, than most.
As a calvinist, this is how it works; once you are truly saved, God forgives you of all your sin, past, present, AND future. You cannot lose your salvation. Now the arminians would tell you that if a person ever lost their faith, they lost their salvation. Us calvinists say no. Since God already knows every sin you will commit till your death, He also will know if your “faith” is real and lasts. We say that if a person ever lost their faith, they were never saved to begin with.
Hope that helps.

 

[ScottA]

I just don't get it.

I asked this several months ago and all I got was some flack.

If you get angry with someone, in a a fight or something, and you are OSAS from a few years back, but you injure someone, and the police see you and shoot you, and you die, are you still saved?
Or if you commit what we otherlings would consider sin, and you don't ask forgiveness since you don't sin, are you still saved?
Do you pray "Forgive us our trespasses , as we forgive those who trespass against us?" And if you do, does that negate your belief in OSAS because you are acknowledging sin?

Someone before had told me that OSAS people don't sin, but when I asked what you call it if one does something wrong, and , they said something like "It's not really a sin, it's something else. Anyone know where this is in the Bible?
James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin."

Please enlighten me, I do not understand.

It is because people look at every day, but God does not. But rather with God, He is "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Meaning that once He has forgiven one's sins, He has not only forgiven them for that day and before, but forever (always)...because He considers it all.

 

[dev553344]

It is because people look at every day, but God does not. But rather with God, He is "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Meaning that once He has forgiven one's sins, He has not only forgiven them for that day and before, but forever (always)...because He considers it all.

I hope that's true

 

[Lambano]

Since God already knows every sin you will commit till your death, He also will know if your “faith” is real and lasts.

This is not quite correct. The concept of “foreseen faith” is consistent with John Wesley’s Arminian understanding of Election, but I recall the Westminster Confession specifically precludes “foreseen faith” as the basis for election. Please fact-check me on that, because I’ve only sampled the WCF. Instead, my understanding of Calvinist doctrine is that God actively preserves the elect so that they cannot permanently lose their faith. Again, please fact-check me on that.

However, when addressing how a totally depraved non-elect soul could possibly come to faith in the first place before apostatizing, Calvin postulated that God issued a Temporal Grace for a while before pulling the rug out from under him. This is horrible and one of the reasons I cannot be a Calvinist. But the alternative is to reject Total Depravity and allow that humans have the ability in themselves to trust Christ.

 

[PinSeeker]

This is not quite correct. The concept of “foreseen faith” is consistent with John Wesley’s Arminian understanding of Election, but I recall the Westminster Confession specifically precludes “foreseen faith” as the basis for election. Please fact-check me on that, because I’ve only sampled the WCF. Instead, my understanding of Calvinist doctrine is that God actively preserves the elect so that they cannot permanently lose their faith. Again, please fact-check me on that.

Right. "Foreseen faith" is based on a wrong understanding of God's foreknowing as Paul states it in Romans 8:29. It is not mere cognitive foreknowledge. In a mere cognitive sense, God is omniscient and thus foreknows every one and every thing. It cannot be that, because Paul is talking about God foreknowing only a certain group of people and not foreknowing everyone. 'Foreknew' in Romans 8:29 is used in virtually the same sense as 'foreloved.' And in this way, it fits perfectly with what John later says in 1 John 4, that we love because He first loved us. God loves all His creation, of course, but Paul, in Romans 8, is talking about God's distinguishing, choosing love, which He only extends to His elect, much in the same way that fathers love their children in a distinguishing way from all other children.

However, when addressing how a totally depraved non-elect soul could possibly come to faith in the first place before apostatizing, Calvin postulated that God issued a Temporal Grace for a while before pulling the rug out from under him. This is horrible and one of the reasons I cannot be a Calvinist.

I don't quite follow you here. Maybe you could cite exactly what John Calvin said regarding this.

But the alternative is to reject Total Depravity and allow that humans have the ability in themselves to trust Christ.

Well that would be wrong. Maybe that's not the only alternative.

Grace and peace to you, Lambano.

 

[Lambano]

I don't quite follow you here. Maybe you could cite exactly what John Calvin said regarding this.

Another term is “Evanescent Grace”

Temporal Grace

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

This is not quite correct. The concept of “foreseen faith” is consistent with John Wesley’s Arminian understanding of Election, but I recall the Westminster Confession specifically precludes “foreseen faith” as the basis for election. Please fact-check me on that, because I’ve only sampled the WCF. Instead, my understanding of Calvinist doctrine is that God actively preserves the elect so that they cannot permanently lose their faith. Again, please fact-check me on that.

However, when addressing how a totally depraved non-elect soul could possibly come to faith in the first place before apostatizing, Calvin postulated that God issued a Temporal Grace for a while before pulling the rug out from under him. This is horrible and one of the reasons I cannot be a Calvinist. But the alternative is to reject Total Depravity and allow that humans have the ability in themselves to trust Christ.

once we are justified, or saved, ALL sins, past, present and future are forgiven. Three reasons to know this is true;
1. “When Jesus died, all of today’s sins were yet future. Jesus did not die only for the sins of people who lived before Him. He died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2), including the sins of those who lived after Him.”
2. “If our future sins are not forgiven, then two things must happen: 1) when we sin in the future, we revert to an unforgiven state, meaning we lose our salvation and must be saved again, and 2) Christ must die again to cover the sins we’ve committed since His last death. Neither of these scenarios is biblical. We are kept by God, and thus our salvation is secure (John 10:28–30); and Christ died “once for all” (Hebrews 10:10; cf. Hebrews 7:25).”
3. “There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Nothing, not even our future sins, will condemn us. The verdict of “forgiven in Christ” has already been handed down from the divine bench.”

 

[Lambano]

Jesus did not die only for the sins of people who lived before Him. He died for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2), including the sins of those who lived after Him.”

Oh, good; you’re a four-pointer.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Oh, good; you’re a four-pointer.

HA! Sorry to disappoint, but im a full five. Im still talking about His elect.

 

[Renniks]

person only loses faith when the person their trust is in fails.. God never fails us. But even that is not the issue., Salvation is faith in God to save us. Not sure why anyone would trust God to save us then all of a sudden repent back to think God can not do what he promised.

There's lots of warnings that we can fall into false teaching and unbelief. If OSAS was correct those would not be in the Bible.

 

[kcnalp]

Nah, Satan would never say that. He wants people to lack faith and trust in God. Nosas was created by him.

Thanks for saying I can NEVER be unsaved! Wish I could say the same for OSASers.

 

[Cassandra]

hello cassandra, im not sure what your beliefs are, but im a calvinist, and we believe in OSAS. The key question is, was a person actually saved to begin with.
To answer your question, yes, even if you injure someone, you will remain saved, as did david when he had uriah killed.
I dont know many Calvinist folk who would tell you that they no longer sin. Most calvinists i know have a greater understanding of just how bad a sinner they are, than most.
As a calvinist, this is how it works;. You cannot lose your salvation. Now the arminians would tell you that if a person ever lost their faith, they lost their salvation. Us calvinists say no. Since God already knows every sin you will commit till your death, He also will know if your “faith” is real and lasts. We say that if a person ever lost their faith, they were never saved to begin with.
Hope that helps.

Didn't you recently say that you weren't saved? You promote Calvinism, but then it doesn't apply to you. You had changed your "Christian" status to something else==now you are Christian again?

What always bothered me about you is your claimed that Calvinism was true, but you didn't accept it for you. So you don't believe what you push.

Also you say "once you are truly saved, God forgives you of all your sin, past, present, AND future." How very presumptuous.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks for saying I can NEVER be unsaved! Wish I could say the same for OSASers.

Your a broken record. You think you continually repeating this same comment will draw attention and make people see it your way?

I would not say you can;t be unsaved, I can’t say you are saved period.