If sealed with the HS, how does one become UNsealed ?

[GodsGrace]

@PeterAndroz

2 of 3

John 6:28-29 ESV / 204 helpful votes​

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Titus 2:14 ESV / 177 helpful votes​

Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

James 4:17 ESV / 174 helpful votes​

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

1 Timothy 6:17-19 ESV / 169 helpful votes​

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.

Romans 2:6-10 ESV / 162 helpful votes​

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.

1 Corinthians 16:14 ESV / 160 helpful votes​

Let all that you do be done in love.

Hebrews 6:10 ESV / 159 helpful votes​

For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.

2 Corinthians 5:10 ESV / 154 helpful votes​

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Titus 1:16 ESV / 153 helpful votes​

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV / 152 helpful votes​

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

2 Timothy 3:17 ESV / 142 helpful votes​

That the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Proverbs 3:27-28 ESV / 139 helpful votes​

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.

Titus 3:8 ESV / 137 helpful votes​

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.

Hebrews 10:24 ESV / 132 helpful votes​

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Titus 2:7 ESV / 128 helpful votes​

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,

John 14:15 ESV / 118 helpful votes​

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

1 Corinthians 15:58 ESV / 115 helpful votes​

Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Ephesians 2:8 ESV / 112 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV / 111 helpful votes​

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Titus 3:1 ESV / 97 helpful votes​

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

Psalm 37:3 ESV / 96 helpful votes​

Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.

Matthew 25:31-46 ESV / 90 helpful votes​

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...

​

 

[GodsGrace]

@PeterAndroz

3 of 3

James 3:13 ESV / 88 helpful votes​

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.

Colossians 3:23 ESV / 88 helpful votes​

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

John 3:16 ESV / 88 helpful votes​

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

James 2:14-26 ESV / 83 helpful votes​

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...

2 Corinthians 9:8 ESV / 83 helpful votes​

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

Genesis 2:15 ESV / 80 helpful votes​

The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

Psalm 90:17 ESV / 77 helpful votes​

Let the favor of the Lord our God be upon us, and establish the work of our hands upon us; yes, establish the work of our hands!

Galatians 2:16 ESV / 76 helpful votes​

Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Philippians 2:13 ESV / 75 helpful votes​

For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Romans 3:28 ESV / 75 helpful votes​

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Acts 10:38 ESV / 74 helpful votes​

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

Proverbs 14:23 ESV / 73 helpful votes​

In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

Titus 3:14 ESV / 72 helpful votes​

And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Romans 12:1 ESV / 69 helpful votes​

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

​

source: Open bible


and there are even MORE!!

So, now what do we do??

 

[GodsGrace]

Impossible to become unsealed as your presented verses in Ephesians clearly shows

Fact is, once saved always saved is a biblical reality, and the two verses silences any disagreement

Truth
Please show how OSAS is biblical.
Please show how it is not a heretical teaching.

Please show, with documentation, that it was taught in the church from the beginning.

The early church,,,you know right after the Apostles died and left others with what they knew so it could be passed on.

OSAS was NEVER taught by Jesus, the writers of the NT
or anyone that they taught.

Unless you could prove this, of course.

Gnostics need not apply.
Of course, gnostics taught that a person could sin all he wanted to and still be saved
because
sin is in the flesh
and that does not count for God.

Sounds like some Christians today.

 

[GodsGrace]

My work here is finished. Goodbye, Peter.

It does get tiring.

We all have our limit.
I take off every now and then to regroup.

 

[GodsGrace]

Col 1:22-23
Since belief is THE requirement to be Eph 1:13, 4:30 SEALED then I too believe that belief must be ongoing
I don't see it but some claim that 2 Tim 2:13 "cannot deny himself" teaches otherwise

God cannot deny Himself means God will keep HIS promises.
He cannot deny Himself.

Let's take a close look:

2 Timothy 2:12-13
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.


Yes sir.
Belief must be ongoing.

Under careful scrutiny, we discover that, as ususal, some incorrectly understand 2 Timothy thus creating a conflict between verse 12 and verse 13.

Verse 12 states that IF we DENY HIM, He will deny us.

Verse 13 states that God will remain faithful....
but to whom?
A person that returns to a life of sin?
A person that willfully abandons the faith?

No.
God remains faithful to HIMSELF.

..
ACTIONS though are not a condition to be Eph 1:13, 4:30 SEALED & is confirmed by the :-
SAME PERSON who wrote Col 1:22-23
Titus 3:
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Gal 2:
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Rom 3:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Eph 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Rom 4:
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 11:
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The above are very good verses...
unfortunately, some do not care to understand them.

But I've already addressed your carpet bombing verses.

Perhaps you'd like to pluck out one or two and we could discuss?

And are you aware of the fact that
BELIEVE,,,that greek word that is used in the NT....

has contained within it the idea of OBEDIENCE.

Believing in Jesus cannot be separated from obeying Jesus.

John 3:36
36“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

 

[GodsGrace]

Not possible.

Now that is one INTELLIGENT reply.

Not quite sure what to do with it.

Perhaps you'd care to expound?

Do you not believe the NT?

 

[GodsGrace]

"falling away"
By ACTIONS or no longer trusting the death/burial/resurrection of Christ ?

If no longer TRUSTING the DBR that again confirms that ongoing faith/belief/trust is THE requirement to be Eph 4:30 sealed unto redemption

If "falling away" by ACTIONS yet still trusts the DBR, then where are the verses that teach UNsealed c/- ACTIONS ?

Are you SERIOUSLY implying that one could

believe in the DBR of Jesus (see I'm a quick learner)

and

NOT ACT on the words of Him that died, was buried and resurrected for you?

Do you understand that to ACT on the WORDS OF JESUS....
means to obey Him?

if you do not obey Jesus....
having a mental belief that He DBR for you is IRRELEVANT.

Even the demons believe your DBR formula.

Do you know what the difference is?

Demons don't OBEY Jesus.

YOU are required to.

NO OBEDIENCE -------> NO BELIEF
NO BELIEF---------> NO SALVATION

 

[Lambano]

Col 1:22-23
Since belief is THE requirement to be Eph 1:13, 4:30 SEALED then I too believe that belief must be ongoing.

Remember, word πίστει here and elsewhere in Paul's writings means more than "belief".

II. fidelity, faithfulness

1. the character of one who can be relied on

 

[mailmandan]

Hey Doc, your post does not show who you were responding to.
OT has incidences where the HS was removed/taken from believers due to their 'actions'
...
As of Eph 4:30 SEALED UNTO REDEMPTION, I find no instances of a believer becoming UNsealed.
Is there any that you can list ?

Unsealed. Now there is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5) When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks.

So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

Unsealed. Now there is a difference between the role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament and in the New Testament in regard to "indwelling." The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5) When we believe the gospel/place our faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. The apostle Paul calls this permanent indwelling the “guarantee of our inheritance.” (Ephesians 1:14)

In contrast to this permanent indwelling in the New Testament, the indwelling in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Holy Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit “coming upon” these various judges whom God raised up to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit did not permanently indwell them/seal them, but instead, came upon these individuals for specific tasks.

So, while in the New Testament the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain individuals in the Old Testament for specific tasks and not to permanently seal them with the Holy Spirit.

The indwelling is not permanent mailmandan.

Have you read the ENTIRE NT or just the parts you particularly enjoy?

I think you've missed some parts there.

For instance...Jesus taught that unfruitful BELIEVERS could be cut off.

One part you missed.

I'll print it out for you so you could study it a little bit:

John 15:1-2
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;


If you care to debate,,,
you'lll be debating with Jesus,,,
not with me.

I'd take the time to read it and understand it instead.

Jesus is teaching that a BELIEVER....
someone IN HIM

will be TAKEN AWAY
because there is no fruit.

And what happens to branches that are taken away?
The reply is just a few verses down:



John 15:6
. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.


§The branches will be gathered and burned.
Sounds serious.

You might also remember the time Jesus said that a fig tree that was not producing would be given one more year and then it would be cut down UNLESS it produced fruit.
Sounds serious.


Luke 13:6-9
6And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.

7“And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’

8“And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;

9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’”


Jesus said the tree is just taking up the ground for NO REASON.
It is USELESS.


Just like James taught....


James 2:20
20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?


It's wonderful how the NT flows in perfect agreement with itself !