If there were no God...

[musterion]

If there were no God, the atheist would be playing a fool’s game in worrying about it one way or the other, since it would mean that there is no ultimate meaning to life, significance to man’s existence and nothing beyond the grave. All would be empty, vain, purposeless, hopeless; life would merely be a strange, unfathomable accident. That is the atheist’s glorious message.

If the atheist is right, it doesn’t matter what you believe about religion one way or the other, but if the Bible is right it matters a very great deal. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. ... He that believeth on Him is not condemned, but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God” (John 3:16, 18).

David Cloud

 

[JimParker]

If there were no God, there would be nothing.

 

[OzSpen]

If there were no God, there would be nothing.

What would you say to the person who says, 'That's your belief; you got it from your Bible, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". I don't believe there is a God and I don't believe the Bible. Quit dumping your presuppositions on me'?

 

[Axehead]

What would you say to the person who says, 'That's your belief; you got it from your Bible, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". I don't believe there is a God and I don't believe the Bible. Quit dumping your presuppositions on me'?

I would honor his request to "quit" and be on my way. It is not my responsibility for making a man believe, just to preach the Gospel.

 

[JimParker]

What would you say to the person who says, 'That's your belief; you got it from your Bible, "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". I don't believe there is a God and I don't believe the Bible. Quit dumping your presuppositions on me'?

I would say that there can be no effect without a cause. There can be no universe without something to cause the universe to have come into existence. I call that cause "God." It is illogical for there not to have been that "first cause", whether the cause was the dream of Rama or the command of YHWH. Some THING had to have started it all. (Unless they can point to observations of universes just popping into existence...)

And to the notion that the universe might be infinitely old, having no beginning, I would say that the current state of scientific investigation puts the age of the universe at a mere 13.8 billion years.

 

[TopherNelson]

Just to peach the gospel. If someone does not believe in God. I will show him how God had been in my life. Show him how God had loved me and guide him to God.

 

[OzSpen]

I would honor his request to "quit" and be on my way. It is not my responsibility for making a man believe, just to preach the Gospel.

I would honor his request to "quit" and be on my way. It is not my responsibility for making a man believe, just to preach the Gospel.

Axehead,

Notice what I said: 'Quit dumping your presuppositions on me'. I did not say, 'Quit'.

Are you saying that there would be no responsibility for you to deal with the situation like Paul did at the Areopagus at Athens (Acts 17 ESV)? Paul didn't take the line you are recommending. He addressed one of the objections. Paul did see it as his responsibility to give answers to the objections of the 'men of Athens'.

In fact, in the example I gave, I would ask, 'What presuppositions do you hear that I'm using?' Then, 'Let's talk about them'.

The example would provide an ideal opportunity for me to engage in apologetic discussion about God with this person. Paul did not have any difficulty in reasoning about God when the Athenians had an altar with the inscription, 'To the unknown god' (Acts 17:23 ESV). He used this as an opportunity to proclaim the known God. He didn't use objections as a reason for quitting, but as an opportunity to get the discussion and proclamation really going with statements such as, 'I perceive that in every way you are very religious' (Acts 17:22 ESV) and 'they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel their way toward him and find him. Yet he is actually not far from each one of us' (Acts 17:27).

They're just some apologetic bits from me.

Oz

 

[lforrest]

When Paul spoke in the meeting of the Areopagus it was to people who were open to new ideas.(Acts 17:21) They may have been receptive to the gospel.

You can tell when people are obstinate in their beliefs, and hostile to the gospel. That is when you should stop trying to convince them. (Acts 19:8-9)

 

[OzSpen]

I would say that there can be no effect without a cause. There can be no universe without something to cause the universe to have come into existence. I call that cause "God." It is illogical for there not to have been that "first cause", whether the cause was the dream of Rama or the command of YHWH. Some THING had to have started it all. (Unless they can point to observations of universes just popping into existence...)

And to the notion that the universe might be infinitely old, having no beginning, I would say that the current state of scientific investigation puts the age of the universe at a mere 13.8 billion years.

Thanks, Jim.

You are engaging in the apologetic task of reasoning with them here. Excellent content.

For me, I'd be asking them what presuppositions I'm dumping on them and how they perceive them. Let's talk about them.

Then I'd discuss presuppositions and theirs vs mine. For example, when someone says, 'Quit dumping your presuppositions on me', I would ask, 'To make that kind of statement, you have some presuppositions that cause you to oppose my presuppositions. What are your presuppositions against God and the Bible?'

Most people I encounter who oppose Christianity have some anti-God presuppositions and I try to find out their nature and what drives them. My dissertation is on a topic where it was discovered that one of the ways to expose presuppositions is to provide counter evidence.

What causes a person to presuppose God does not exist? How can we provide evidence to challenge that? That's how I think when I meet these kinds of people.

Oz

When Paul spoke in the meeting of the Areopagus it was to people who were open to new ideas.(Acts 17:21) They may have been receptive to the gospel.

You can tell when people are obstinate in their beliefs, and hostile to the gospel. That is when you should stop trying to convince them. (Acts 19:8-9)

I agree.

I met one such person in a secular meeting I attended last week. She was aged 84, an accountant, and opposed to anything about religion. Why? Her father was a Jew and her mother was a Roman Catholic and they constantly fought in the home about religion. So she wants nothing to do with religion. I knew it was wasted time even beginning a conversation with her about God.

Later I thought that I should have said something like: One second after your last breath you could be saying to yourself, 'I should have spoken more with Oz about this while I was alive'.