I find it hard to imagine that the God we are discussing who has unconditional love is likely to damn people who have their own belief in a God but who do not come into contact with Christian beliefs throughout the world - please discuss.
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I find it hard to imagine that the God we are discussing who has unconditional love is likely to damn people who have their own belief in a God but who do not come into contact with Christian beliefs throughout the world - please discuss.
I find it hard to imagine that the God we are discussing who has unconditional love is likely to damn people who have their own belief in a God but who do not come into contact with Christian beliefs throughout the world - please discuss.
I find it hard to imagine that the God we are discussing who has unconditional love is likely to damn people who have their own belief in a God but who do not come into contact with Christian beliefs throughout the world - please discuss.
Nothing to discuss - you have a good head on your shoulders.I find it hard to imagine that the God we are discussing who has unconditional love is likely to damn people who have their own belief in a God but who do not come into contact with Christian beliefs throughout the world - please discuss.
all are sinners its why its so important for missionary work around the world
the Scriptures do not make such claims as "burning in hell forever",
fivesense
I find it hard to imagine that the God we are discussing who has unconditional love is likely to damn people who have their own belief in a God but who do not come into contact with Christian beliefs throughout the world - please discuss.
What "scriptures" are you talking about? Certainly not the Bible.
Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Lk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Lk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We North American's have done a fairly good job of embracing Christianity or at least preaching it in this part of the world. Often we feel It is our duty to take the gospel to other countries such as Africa so they also can hear the bible message. We would feel it unfair if God did not give them the opportunity to hear the gospel.
But we forget that the Gospel started out on that continent two thousand years ago and was mostly rejected.
I would be very cautious claiming God has unconditional love for those who reject him and his Son. Unconditional love has no value if it not received and accepted. Many will reject it.
Best regards
Martin
Thank you Martin for bringing that to mind, about the originating point of the gospel. I must ask, though, if God does not have "unconditional love" a man-made phrase to be sure, then are we to suppose He has conditional hate? Does not the chastening of the Lord lead to remedy whenever He administers it? Is it a willy-nilly affair to Him, based upon His "feelings", which is the hotbed of hate proceeding from the heart? Is not hatred condemned for our usage, and we are to presume God can be hateful at His own whim? There is something awfully unstable in the thought of a God who does not love unconditionally...
Hi fivesense
If I was to rewrite my earlier comment I think it would be more like this:
God is a God of unconditional love toward any and all people who come to him for forgiveness and salvation. His greatest expression of that love can be seen in the sacrifice of his only Son.
Anyone who rejects this opportunity to partake in God's unconditional love will not receive it.
We must admit that our "loving God" has some rather nasty plans for Satan and those who follow him.
Martin
One must be carefull when putting God on the spot regarding Judgement, God is not like us, His thoughts are not our thoughts, His ways are not Like ours, lets leave Judgement to Him.
If judment shall fall on the unrightous, then there shall surely be a large que of christains on that path to damnation. God saves whom He will, for He is God, who are we to declare who is worth saving and who is not, We are all children of God, the believer and unbeliver alike. And what good father would damn His children to eternal punishment, So we shall wait and see, the final outcome of all this. Too many people thinking of judgement and sin instead of Loving Jesus and asking to know His heart and His will, if they all did, surely only good could com out of it.
In His Love
regarding all the comments above -
I met a lovely guy yesterday who is a Muslim, and he is very devout in serving God - when we talked, it sounded to me like the same God, on the basis that the Koran has many details referring to Old Testament and the same key individuals, yet in my mind was the idea that we Christians believe that the only way to God is through Christ -
whilst they have high respect for Christ as an important prophet, as was mentioned early they do not accept him as the Son of God -
so my problem, whilst talking to him, was, is he damned for believing what he believes so strongly, if we appear to worship the same God?
Thanks for your comments earlier, they were very valuable.
Mike
What "scriptures" are you talking about? Certainly not the Bible.
Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Lk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Lk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Re 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Re 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
etc....etc.....etc.....
This Christ of God, Whose presence and activity on earth cannot be contested, is the Head of a new race. They are the sons of God in spirit, and have no concern or participation in shoring up earthly affairs once they come into true sonship. It is the expectation of all who believe in the crucifixion, entombment, and resurrection of Jesus Christ to escape death and become as He is, a spirit being, subjected and obedient to the Father of spirits. All true blessings come out of that relationship to God through Jesus Christ.
He has earned His place as Lord. He became obedient unto death, not doing His own will, but that of the Father. All creation must do the same, act out of response to the Fathers will. For us, it is as individuals with conscious willingness to do so. Without the Holy Spirit imposing itself upon the heart and mind, history proves that this cannot be performed by human being without God's impartation of grace. There is only One Who can provide this to us, the Crucified and empowered Jesus Christ. No other man can do this, for the cost of obtaining that ability, to impart supernatural life to others, has given to Him who discarded all His glory in heaven to suffer humiliation and death as a ransom for all.
He owns it all. Every man, woman and child, everything that moves and lives and breathes belongs to Him. It was given to Him for His obedience to God. The entire universe is His, and He is in the process of setting all things aright, and reconciling all of it to present it to His Father. This is what God is doing in everyones' lives, whether they are aware of it, or not. It is the ultimate goal of the Father to become All in all.
1C 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
There is no other method, religion, or way to accomplish this goal than by what God has established. His Son will save all men, specially them which believe, no matter how long it takes, and with all justice and equity. Those who do not believe on the work of the Son will die a second time, a horrible thing to occur, in the lake of fire-the second death. Being raised out of death to face the Holy One Who only desired your redemption, and finally realizing this at the Great White Throne, will be a travail of sorrow never felt before, a sadness and despair of immeasurable degree. Then, having recognized and realizing the truth, that this One only loved you with a boundless love, being sentenced to die again will seem even to yourself just and right. But the end is not there, and this you will realize. Your being cut off from the ages to come, wherein Christ and God dwell with humanity, with blessings unending and super exceeding, will cause suffering to the soul that I would not wish on anyone, yet this will be your lot-death and separation til the consummation of God wherein He becomes All in all. You will be restored then, but will have lost out on the greatest and grandest display of the love of God for man that He has planned for those who love Him.
Not all are vessels of God for His glory and honor. Many have been allotted their portion in the second death for His purposes. But He is just and loving, and will make all things right at some point in His plan for us. Even the Muslim, or the Hindu, or any other deception. All is out of God, to God, and for God. He will lose nothing that is out of Himself, or He is not God.
fivesense
Jesus prayed to His Father (our Father) in heaven that He would not lose any that His Father gave to Him. That does not mean His Father gave all men to Him. If you believe in the book of Revelations you only have to read the first 3 chapters to understand that God does, in fact, hate. Although some believe that all men that ever lived will, in the end, be saved I am certainly not one of them. To believe it is, is to say that having faith, trust, confidence and hope in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross is not needed because in the end Jesus will save you anyway.
Who is man that he can judge God? If God has reserved a lake of fire for the un-godly who is man to say He shouldn't?