IF YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO KEEP THE SABBATH THEN CONSIDER THIS

[HealthyShape]

You are presenting a strawman argument in saying I said 70AD should be stated in prophecy. I never said or implied that
The date has absolutely no bearing on saying that Jesus destroyed the temple. The date is used outside scripture to identify which destroyed temple is being discussed

You have been unable to show scripture to prove your assertion. Please just give me the scripture that supports this

What Scripture do you expect? Be clear. You have been given all Scriptures that are needed to put 1+1 together, but you still want something else and you are unable to define what exactly.

1. Jesus said He will come in judgement
2. Jesus, John the Baptist and the apostles all prophecised the judgement is coming and immediate - in their generation.
3. Jesus foretold the exact chain of events in the Olivet Discourse
4. Jesus was talking about it in various parables, too.
5. The book of Revelation is full of warnings of the "soon coming judgement".

What more do you want? Be clear.

 

[HealthyShape]

The early church post-70 AD:

"Those Jews who survived were dispersed throughout the whole earth; for the city and the temple had been destroyed by God's judgment."
Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 260-340)

"By the temple is meant the Jewish people: their house was desolate when the city was razed under Titus as a punishment for their sins."
Jerome (c. 347-420)

"The destruction of the city and temple of the Jews was the vengeance of God for their crimes and for the murder of Christ."
Orosius (c. 375-418)

"For the Jews, after the passion of Christ, while they boast of their ancient temple, yet the temple was destroyed as a punishment for their sins."
Augustine of Hippo (354-430)

"The temple was burned and the city laid waste by the Romans - a visitation sent by God in punishment of the Jews."
Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 315-403)

"When the Lord said, 'Behold, your house is left unto you desolate,' he meant that Jerusalem was to be made desolate when the Jews had been punished for their deeds and crucifying the Lord; and so it came to pass under Titus."
John Chrysostom (c. 347-407)

 

[HealthyShape]

Or, the reformers:

"How could it not be God's judgment when they stoned and murdered his prophets, and put Christ to death? Therefore the destruction of Jerusalem and of the temple was a manifest judgment of God."
Martin Luther, Sermons and Writings on the Gospel of St. Matthew

"The ruin of Jerusalem and of the temple was the vengeance of God, and a testimony of the truth of Christ's prophecy; for he foretold that the city would be left desolate because of their unbelief and impiety."
John Calvin, Commentary on the Gospel According to Matthew

 

[Button]

It was said Jesus destroyed the temple in 70AD and this is now explained by you that in not protecting the temple he actively destroyed it. That is just an opinion. It remains that the only relationship Christ had to the temple destruction was to prophesize of its destruction

Very good.
It being his father's house,as he called it when condemning the money changers active before it, was able to be prophesied by Jesus and about its destruction, why?

 

[Button]

It is no mistake.

"Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people."
Ex 31:13

Many modern Sabbatarians try to make it all soft and nice and for health, even something you privately decide how to observe it and so on. But these are Ellen White's ideas, not found in the Bible.

If you need to observe Sabbath, it is no joyful playing. It is slavery and you need to observe it very carefully and strictly, as Pharisees tried to do.

21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise. 24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
Gal 4

It is a mistake. One you just made.

It takes a lot of effort for you and those who hold your errant opinion and whom Jesus tells us,shall be called the least in Heaven ,for trying repeatedly to lead Christians from respect for and obedience to the laws of God.

It takes great effort on your part as well to personally ignore the scriptural fact that Jesus showed the people how to keep the Sabbath,and after his ascension,his Apostles kept the Sabbath as Jesus taught.

 

[Wrangler]

I think so because Exodus 20:10 says here " nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:" A stranger has no direct relationship with the individual keeping sabbath

And what about strangers outside thy gates?

 

[Doug]

Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which included keeping the Sabbath holy,

Why would we have to walk in obedience to the law when the Gentiles who were saved in Acts 10 were exempted from keeping the Law? They were only given a few ordnances to obey....................[Acts 15:5 KJV] "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses."
[Acts 15:28 KJV] "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;"
[Acts 15:29 KJV] "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

 

[Doug]

we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22),

[1 Peter 2:21 KJV] "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"...................Peter was addressing this to the persecuted scattered Jews not us............[1 Peter 1:1 KJV] "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"............we can learn from Peter but he isnt our apostle. Paul gives us our doctrine and instruction

 

[Doug]

those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6),

[1 John 2:6 KJV] "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."............Again this was written to Israel............[1 John 3:23 KJV] "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."
[1 John 3:24 KJV] "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."...................Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus to be saved unto eternal life.................[John 3:16 KJV] "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
[John 3:17 KJV] "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
[John 3:18 KJV] "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
.

 

[Button]

[1 Peter 2:21 KJV] "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"...................Peter was addressing this to the persecuted scattered Jews not us............[1 Peter 1:1 KJV] "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"............we can learn from Peter but he isnt our apostle. Paul gives us our doctrine and instruction

You're Pauline.
Now it makes sense why you divide the church and ignore the teachings of Christ.

 

[Doug]

be imitators of Paul as he is of Christ (1 Corinthians 11:1)

[1 Corinthians 11:1 KJV] "Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ."................This doesnt say to be imitators of Paul. He is saying to follow him and his teachings and commands, To follow Paul is to follow Christ in the way he teaches Paul now in this dispensation, not in the way he taught and commanded Israel in his earthly ministry

 

[Doug]

That's some fixation you have there.

Too bad you refuse to accept the temple Jesus actually did say would be destroyed and risen again in three days.

He was standing in front of the temple when he said this of course.
He was referring to his body first. And that man made structures fall,brick for brick,later. Which occurred in 70 AD.

Not a fixation. You made the claim Jesus destroyed the temple in 70AD which is false as evidenced by your inability to produce scripture.
Your teachers didnt give you much ammo to substantiate what they teach you. This claim is made to deny prophecy to restore Israel in the future.

 

[Soyeong]

Why would we have to walk in obedience to the law when the Gentiles who were saved in Acts 10 were exempted from keeping the Law? They were only given a few ordnances to obey....................[Acts 15:5 KJV] "But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses."
[Acts 15:28 KJV] "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;"
[Acts 15:29 KJV] "That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

In Acts 15, the topic that they were discussing is not whether followers of Christ should follow what he taught, but whether salvation is by grace (Acts 15:11) or by circumcision (Acts 15:1). In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Law of Moses was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which is the. Gospel that Peter argued in Acts 15:6-7 that Gentiles had heard and believed, so he was siding the Pharisees from among the believers in Acts 15:5. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, God will take away our hearts of stone, give us hearts of flesh, and send His Spirit to lead us in obedience to the Law of Moses, which is in accordance with Acts 15:8-9 where Peter argued that Gentiles had received the Spirit and had their hearts cleansed, so again he was siding with the Pharisees from among the believers and the Gentiles in Acts 10 were not exempt from keeping it. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Law of Moses, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, which is in accordance with what Peter argued in Acts 15:10-11 that Gentiles are saved by grace just as we are, which again is siding with the Pharisees. This means that the heavy burden that no one could bear was not the Law of Moses, but an alternative to salvation by grace, namely salvation by circumcision that was proposed by the men from Judea in Acts 15:1.

Either Acts 15:19-21 contains an exhaustive list for mature believers or it does not, so it would be contradictory to treat it as being an exhaustive list in order to limit which laws Gentiles should follow while also treating it as being an non-exhaustive list by taking the position that there are obviously other laws that Gentiles should follow.

Jesus and the Apostles quoted from the OT hundreds of times in order to support what they were saying, so it doesn't work to take the position that we should only follow what they said but not what they considered to be an authoritative source. Again, Jesus said that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God and the bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so if think that the Jerusalem Council spoke against living by every word that comes from the mouth of God, then you should follow every word that comes from the mouth of God rather than the Jerusalem Council. In Deuteronomy 13, the way that God instructed to determine that someone is a false prophet who is not speaking for Him is if they speak against obeying what He has commanded, so it is either incorrect to interpret the Jerusalem Council as doing that or they were false prophets, but either way followers of Christ should follow his example of obedience to what God has commanded. If you think Acts 15 should be interpreted as ruling against Gentiles following what God has commanded, then you should be opposed considering the Jerusalem Council to be servants of God, and if you think that the Jerusalem Council were servants of God, then you should be opposed to interpreting them as speaking against following what God has commanded, but Deuteronomy 13 does not leave room for you to consider the Jerusalem Council to be servants of God while also thinking that they should be interpreted as speaking against obeying what He has commanded.

 

[Soyeong]

[1 Peter 2:21 KJV] "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:"...................Peter was addressing this to the persecuted scattered Jews not us............[1 Peter 1:1 KJV] "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"............we can learn from Peter but he isnt our apostle. Paul gives us our doctrine and instruction

Are you seriously trying to argue that Paul thought Gentile followers of Christ don't need to follow Christ's example of refraining from sin?

[1 John 2:6 KJV] "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked."............Again this was written to Israel............[1 John

Do you think that being a follower of Jesus is just for Israel? In Matthew 28:16-20, Jesus commissioned his disciples to teach to the nations everything that he taught them, so he did not intend for what he taught to only be for Israel. Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and it by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Matthew 1:21), so Jesus graciously teaching us to be doers of the Law of Moses is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not being a doer of it and the position that a Gentile has been saved from not being a doer of the Law of Moses is also the position that they are a doer of it. The position that Gentiles have no obligation yo refrain from doing what the Law of Moses reveals to be sin is the position that Gentiles don't need the Gospel, don't need to repent from sin, don't need salvation from sin, don't need grace, don't need faith, and don't need Jesus to have given himself to redeem us from all lawlessness. Why do you want to be a follower of Christ if you don't want to be a follower of what he taught?

3:23 KJV] "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."
[1 John 3:24 KJV] "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."...................Israel had to believe on the name of Jesus to be saved unto eternal life.................[John 3:16 KJV] "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
[John 3:17 KJV] "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
[John 3:18 KJV] "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
.

Why do you want to believe in Jesus while not wanting to follow God's instructions for how to believe in Him? Why do you want to abide in Christ if you don't want to follow his instructions for how to do that? In John 3:16-21, it connects our belief in the Son with our obedience.

[1 Corinthians 11:1 KJV] "Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ."................This doesnt say to be imitators of Paul. He is saying to follow him and his teachings and commands, To follow Paul is to follow Christ in the way he teaches Paul now in this dispensation, not in the way he taught and commanded Israel in his earthly ministry

Paul followed Christ's example, which was the same example that he was instructing us to follow. Paul was using a parallel statement to equate the two, not saying that we should follow him instead of Christ. If you think that Paul was saying that we should follow him instead of Christ, then. you should follow Christ instead of Paul.

 

[Button]

Not a fixation. You made the claim Jesus destroyed the temple in 70AD

As I observed. Fixation.
I did not do that.
Jesus was the temple. I recognize you do not accept this.

which is false as evidenced by your inability to produce scripture.

Untruth. When you invent a falsehood,claiming someone said what your imagination invented, it is not incumbent on me to prove you're imagining things.

Nor is that the case for other members who have tried to correct your errors.

Your teachers didnt give you much ammo to substantiate what they teach you. This claim is made to deny prophecy to restore Israel in the future.

Yes,I believe that's your intention. You just substitute references to others for what is your agenda.

 

[Doug]

Well, since prophetically the middle of the 69th week of Daniel's 70th week terminated in AD 31, at Calvary (having begun 457 BC, 7th year of Artaxerxes I Longimanus / Machrocheir, Ezr. 6:14, 7:1-28; Dan. 9:25; &c.) and Jesus stated that within that "generation" all those things would be fulfilled, and once passed from adult to the children, and their refusal, only thus within 40 years, or as scripture states 39 years (40-1) the length of judgment (just as 39 OT books), AD 31 to AD 70 is 39 years, within that 40 years or final generation.

I am sorry but could you be succinct and tell me what is the point you are making

 

[Doug]

Well, since prophetically the middle of the 69th week of Daniel's 70th week terminated in AD 31, at Calvary (having begun 457 BC, 7th year of Artaxerxes I Longimanus / Machrocheir, Ezr. 6:14, 7:1-28; Dan. 9:25; &c.) and Jesus stated that within that "generation" all those things would be fulfilled, and once passed from adult to the children, and their refusal, only thus within 40 years, or as scripture states 39 years (40-1) the length of judgment (just as 39 OT books), AD 31 to AD 70 is 39 years, within that 40 years or final generation.

"This generation" wasnt that current generation Jesus was speaking to, it is the generation that will experience all he described would come before the tribulation

 

[Doug]

What Scripture do you expect? Be clear. You have been given all Scriptures that are needed to put 1+1 together, but you still want something else and you are unable to define what exactly.

1. Jesus said He will come in judgement
2. Jesus, John the Baptist and the apostles all prophecised the judgement is coming and immediate - in their generation.
3. Jesus foretold the exact chain of events in the Olivet Discourse
4. Jesus was talking about it in various parables, too.
5. The book of Revelation is full of warnings of the "soon coming judgement".

What more do you want? Be clear.

I have expressed it all along you claim Jesus destroyed the temple. Here is what I am asking for.............what scripture says Jesus destroyd the temple or Jesus said he would destroy the temple.

By the way John said the kingdom was at hand and if it had they would be facing the tribulation so John told them to repent to escape it. Israel rejected it so Jesus said it would be postponed in some parables

 

[Doug]

Very good.
It being his father's house,as he called it when condemning the money changers active before it, was able to be prophesied by Jesus and about its destruction, why?

Scripture doesnt say

 

[Soyeong]

I said nothing to justify me saying that

I quoted 1 Peter 2:21-22 to support the position that we are told to follow Christ's example of refraining from sin and you argued against me.

The verses you gave dont apply to Gentiles following Christ in the flesh (following Jesus' ministry on earth)

So do you think that following Christ is just for Israel and not for Gentiles?

I follow all this through Paul's epistles

Paul did not oppose Gentiles following God's instructions for how to believe in Jesus.

I gave you the verse. You arent readding it. Paul says to be followers of him as he is of Christ. I follow Christ by what he says to me through Paul

The verse that you quoted uses a parallel statement to equate following Paul's example with following Christ's example. If you interpret Paul as speaking against following Christ, then you are not following Christ through Paul.