I'm a Christian and I support the legality of same-sex marriage

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Prayer Warrior

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If you're being honest, don't you find it remarkable that, in the gospels of the 4 disciples, Jesus isn't quoted on anything pertaining to homosexuality?

Jesus did better than that. Citing Genesis, He defined what is permissible by God's design in saying the following:

Matt 19:4-6--...Jesus said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
 
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Prayer Warrior

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Let seculars be secular. As Jesus said, let the dead bury their dead.

If some of our Christian friends had their way, there would be roving bands of religious police enforcing morality and locking up people who engage in pre-marital sex, etc. No thanks.

That's not what Jesus meant about letting the dead bury the dead.

And your second statement is just over the top! LOL!
 

K9Buck

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I don't think any life choices a person makes that only affects them should be punished with imprisonment. Only those things that cause harm or death or loss of property for others should be punishable by imprisoning them.

Exactly. I take a bit further in saying that, I believe that we Christians should NOT use government to prevent homosexuals from being recognized by said government in same-sex marriage. I believe that, we as Christians should say "We believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. We believe that homosexual behavior is a sin. However, we do not want to stand in your way and prevent you from living your life as you see fit, including getting married. As Jesus said, do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

What do you think Jesus would have said about a gay couple that wanted to marry back in 30 AD Jerusalem? Would Jesus have commanded his followers to launch a political campaign to prevent them from being able to be "married"? I think not.
 

Grailhunter

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I don't know. For that matter, what did Jesus say about murder, rape, theft, extortion, kidnapping, etc.? I concede that my knowledge of the 4 gospels is lacking.
One of the surprising things about the Gospels is that the time for Pagan converts...Gentiles would be mostly down the road.
Christ makes the point that His ministry was for the lost sheep of Israel.
If you list all the conversions that Christ had, most of them was with the Jews about Judaism.
You can find a few exception when the topic turns to salvation, but it is still generally with Jews.
The sermons are speeches, not two way conversions. We really do not know who was all there.
There was no reason for Christ to talk to the Jews about homosexuality because the Jews were spot on in regard to their condemnation of homosexuality. In fact the Jews were and are homophobic.
Now Paul had to address it because of the Pagan converts looked at in several ways. And the story is kinda funny. The Romans considered polygamy heathenistic. Well the Romans were worse! There marriage were heterosexual but their sex lives were distinctly separate from their wives, they could have male or female lovers. lol Which one was worse?
 
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K9Buck

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Jesus did better than that. Citing Genesis, He defined what is permissible by God's design in saying the following:

Matt 19:4-6--...Jesus said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

You're reaching in trying to conflate that Jesus' statement had anything to do with homosexuality.
 

Prayer Warrior

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I understand. I believe government should stick to building roads, running the defense department, etc. while staying out of the way of private citizens. I oppose their involvement in many things, including state marriage licenses. I oppose the concept of government imposing its moral views upon greater society. Many Christians seemingly support living under a theocracy, as long as it's a Christian theocracy. But what if it's an Islamic theocracy or a Buddhist theocracy or a Hindu theocracy? Then, suddenly, those same Christians then agree with me that government should stay OUT of such things.

You really need to think this through. You want government to outlaw behaviors that overtly hurt other people, but some of us have demonstrated how homosexual marriage, and homosexuality, is covertly detrimental to our society. Have you read anything that those of who oppose "gay marriage" have said? Evidently not.

IOW, at this point, you're just repeating yourself.
 

Candidus

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If you're being honest, don't you find it remarkable that, in the gospels of the 4 disciples, Jesus isn't quoted on anything pertaining to homosexuality?
Is it remarkable that Jesus said nothing about not stoning Homosexuals, pedophiles, and never said that wife-beating was wrong?

If we were to take a look at the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, which contain the majority of the words of Jesus in the New Testament, we do find silence on any direct condemnation of Jesus upon Homosexuality. The method of taking what Jesus said as being superior the rest of New Testament writing has been called by many to be, “Red Letter Christianity.” Since many modern Bibles place the words of Jesus in red, some have taken this to mean that these are the only inspired words that we must base our lives upon.

As with most arguments that endure, this one has an element of truth to it. We do not know of one time where Jesus directly attacks or condemns Homosexuality. The opposite is also evident; Jesus at no time endorses, condones, or looks at Homosexuality as normal or morally neutral. Both positions are arguments from silence, and by themselves, are a dangerous means of deriving what we know to be sin, or moral truth. Silence never establishes doctrine.

It is not difficult to explain why Jesus did not expound upon Homosexuality as recorded in Scripture. Jesus was primarily within the Jewish community, and there was not rampant Homosexuality present in that community! The Jews were under the Law, and the Law condemned Homosexuality without the least evasion. While on earth, Jesus stated, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matt. 15:24. Homosexuality was not ever in debate in Israel, but as the Gospel was extended into heathen lands, Paul states, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” Romans 1:16.

Paul was in no way in contradiction with Jesus on the issue of Homosexuality. To
pit Jesus against Paul because of what Jesus did not say, is like claiming that since Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles, that the Gospel does not exist for anyone but the Jews. A policeman does not interview the person who did not see the crime committed, but the one that did!

What most Christians desire is; to know truth. What does God say? It makes no sense to build a theology on what is never said; for who knows what is being said by that silence? Doctrine is built upon what is said, not what is not said. Yet, that does not seem to trouble those that would try to justify Homosexuality and allow it to be unquestioned and normative in the Modern Church and society.

Since Jesus does not say anything about Homosexuality directly, is this a valid argument that should silence all criticism by Christians? Some obviously believe this to be true! If Jesus said nothing; apparently Homosexuality was not an important issue to Him. That is pure assumption. Where does our Red-Letter method of creating a theology from silence lead us? Does this method prove too much?
If silence is approval, may I observe a few things that follow logically? First, Jesus never condemned the Old Testament standard of stoning and killing Homosexuals. He said nothing! Therefore, God does not condemn the killing of Homosexuals in our streets! Remember… you said that an argument from silence is valid! Jesus never said anything about pedophilia, so by an argument from silence, adults having sex with children is not a moral issue! Jesus preached love! And many adults love children! I am sure that “Christian” wife-beaters must be happy to hear about this expository method from silence, for Jesus never condemned anyone for beating their wives! Bestiality is never condemned by Jesus, but what of the mutual love between man and animal? If all is excused if something is done by mutual love, then why would Jesus ever condemn adultery? Fornication? But God is love! Yet the truth is, God is holy! And holiness tempers love! It is not “love” to allow your child to play with the crocodiles or to play in the middle of the freeway! You can say that it is “love” to allow your child to do what they want, but if it is detrimental to them, or leads them to eternal damnation, it is not “love” in the least!

Silence is not consent. Silence is not and endorsement or neutrality concerning certain sins. The argument from silence fails!

What the Bible teaches is not limited to what is said by Jesus. We have an entire New Testament that contains the word of God. We do not merely live by some moral code limited to what just Jesus says; or in this case, what He does not. It misses the point of Christianity to reduce everything to a New Testament equivalent of a Ten Commandments. Anyone who would do such a thing has no real concept of what Christianity and a relationship with Christ is!
 
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Prayer Warrior

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You're reaching in trying to conflate that Jesus' statement had anything to do with homosexuality.
I'm not conflating! I don't commit that sin! ;)

Seriously, Jesus defined marriage in that passage, and it didn't involve two people of the same sex.
 
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K9Buck

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Talk to yourself much? Hey, when you find your grail let me know. I'll have a good laugh with the Lord about it. Maybe he'll send you after the ark of the covenant next.

I believe that Jesus would be more disappointed with you two Christians bickering with one another than he would be with two "good" men being "married".
 
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K9Buck

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Skydiving is not called immoral in the Bible.

Do you believe that it is wrong or immoral to take unnecessary risks with one's life?

Let me ask you another question. Are you engaging honestly in order to advance understanding or are you trying to win an argument?