I'm starting to think that the YLT translation is the only one to read

[Michiah-Imla]

@Patrick1966

You can keep posting verses that introduce the gospel to all men, but;

As I said before:

It all ends here.

“And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.” (Revelation 21:27)

“For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:15)

AND BEWARE THAT YOU DON’T SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS NEXT SCRIPTURE:

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” (Revelation 22:19)

 

[Patrick1966]

If they repent and continue grounded and settled.

It doesn't say that.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

we're commanded to avoid petty disagreements

Denial of everlasting torments in the lake of fire is a serious doctrinal error!

 

[Patrick1966]

Ok, so all of the scriptures that I provided was a waste of time on these two. Oh well, I tried. Moving on.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It doesn't say that.

Other scriptures tell you that if you have ears to hear:

“And you, that were at one time alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…” (Colossians 1:21-23)

 

[Patrick1966]

It's time to utilize the "ignore" feature. These two are filled with hatred, reject God's words, and teach false doctrine.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Ok I see that you are filled with vitriol.

You demonstrated it yourself.

I was simply making an observation.

Was Paul filled with “vitriol”?

“…O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?” (Acts 13:10)

How about Jesus?

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matthew 23:33)

And yet I didn’t use that language on you.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It's time to utilize the "ignore" feature. These two are filled with hatred, reject God's words, and teach false doctrine.

You already mentally pressed the ignore feature in your head towards the scriptures.

 

[Wrangler]

My "starting" point is the word of God.

Impossible since you literally read the word of God (in a less familiar translation) and condemn it.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I believe the traditional English Bibles have been so badly translated that they actually teach false doctrine.

Take Hebrews 1:1-2, for example.

Hebrews 1:1-2 ESV vs. YLT

ESV
Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

YLT
In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets,in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages


What are your thoughts?

I use it along with others: KJ, NKJ, NASB, NIV, ESV. All the men who worked on those were gifted and Spirit led. When I reference one scripture in the Biblegateway.com, you can pull up sixty translations, most of them saying the same thing. But one word can make a difference, so it is good to check several translations.
Actually, sboit Heb. 1:2, RSV and YLT are both right. "aion, or anionas, or aionios" can mean ages or world(s).
Out of 49 translations, 17 used worlds, 16 used "world", 14 used "universe" and only two used "ages". I think, Young needed to look beyond "ages" to a much broader meaning, like universe.

 

[Patrick1966]

Impossible since you literally read the word of God (in a less familiar translation) and condemn it.

I dispute the validity of the translation from Greek to English that says that people are tortured FOREVER.

I believe the YLT is accurate because it makes sense but if you say the ESV'S translation is the correct translation then you also must believe that ALL of the scriptures that I provided that support universal salvation are ALL false.

 

[Wrangler]

But, if you say that forever death or forever Hell is true, then the plethora of verses supporting universal salvation are ALL false.

Start with 1 Timothy 4:10.

This is for a different thread.

Having said that, I already provided 3 verses. That your argument is weak, is shown in that you swept the verses aside that go against your doctrine. That has nothing to do with translation.

 

[Patrick1966]

Sadly, many Christians believe that our loving father tortures his creation FOREVER. God doesn't do that. Please read all of the following and then tell us again that God tortures people day and night without end forever and ever!

1 John 4 ►
English Standard Version Par ▾
Test the Spirits

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

God Is Love

7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

13By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. 19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannota love God whom he has not seen. 21And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Sadly, many Christians believe that our loving father tortures his creation

Sadly many choose to continue in wickedness to become candidates for it:

“And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” (Revelation 20:10)

“And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:15)

 

[Patrick1966]

This is for a different thread.

Having said that, I already provided 3 verses. That your argument is weak, is shown in that you swept the verses aside that go against your doctrine. That has nothing to do with translation.

I didn't see your three verses.

In any event, what you're saying is that I'm wrong for sharing verses that demonstrate that God doesn't send people to an eternal torture chamber. Furthermore, you're saying that the doctrine that says that God tortures countless numbers of souls forever and ever is true, right?

Is that what you really believe?

 

[Johann]

By is the better word and not in the prophets

Better still...

By his Son - Greek, 'IN (His) Son' (Joh_14:10): the true 'prophet' of God. 'His majesty is set forth:

 

[Johann]

Ditto

Does this mean that the righteous live for an age, not forever?

Much love!

Ditto!
Same word for life eternal...does that mean "age long?"

 

[Johann]

I didn't see your three verses.

In any event, what you're saying is that I'm wrong for sharing verses that demonstrate that God doesn't send people to an eternal torture chamber. Furthermore, you're saying that the doctrine that says that God tortures countless numbers of souls forever and ever is true, right?

Is that what you really believe?

You are in error...saying this lovingly

INDEX TO STUDY OF THE DOCTRINE OF ETERNAL PUNISHMENT:

Introduction
Digression on Eternal - The Greek Word Aionios
Hell Has Fallen on Hard Times
Teachings of Jesus Related to Eternal Punishment
Effect of the Truth of Eternal Punishment on Our Evangelistic Passion
Quotes and Illustrations Related To Eternal Punishment
Resources Related to the Doctrine of Eternal Punishment
Definition of Terms Used for Eternal Punishment
Sheol
Hades
Gehenna
Tartarus
Abyss
Eternal
Perish
Steve Lawson's powerful sermon on The Great White Throne Judgment!
Rebuttal of Annihilationism, Universalism, Purgatory
Denial of the Doctrine of Hell By The Cults
Exposition of Luke 16:19-31
Last Words From Saints And Sinners
There's No Place Like Hell - Sermon by Ian Paisley
The Doctrine of Eternal Punishment - Harry Buis
How Shall We Escape if We Neglect so Great a Salvation - W A Criswell
Multiple Related Resources on Hell - list at bottom of page
If you dare - Take a few minutes and watch John Bunyan's VIDEO The infernal dungeon of Hell

What does the word eternal (aionios) mean as it is used in Scripture, NOT as it is used by secular writers, including ancient Greek writers?

Thankfully, God's Spirit has used the word aionios numerous times so one may glean an excellent sense of what this word means in the Bible.

Can you find Greek "authorities" who say aionios does not mean eternal?

Absolutely, but every man that claims to be an "authority" on this word is also a sinner and his words are not inspired by God, and thus are fallible and subject to error (they are not inerrant)!

Only God's Word is inspired by the Spirit of God (Who is the Spirit of Truth). Only God's Word is infallible. Only God's Word is inerrant. Therefore whatever God says on ANY subject is absolute truth, and takes absolute precedence over how the same word was used in the writings of fallen men. That said, here is what the GOD OF TRUTH SAYS about the crucial word ETERNAL (aionios) (And these are only a few examples to make the point).

Matthew 25:41 (WORDS OF JESUS) “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal (aionios) fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

COMMENT - Jesus clearly states those on His left are to depart into the "ETERNAL FIRE." So Jesus believes in an ETERNAL FIRE. Is that a fair statement based on His own declaration? Secondly, Jesus states this ETERNAL FIRE is a place which has been prepared for the DEVIL. So that begs a question -- If ETERNAL FIRE is not real, then will the devil be let out of that place at some point in the future? Clearly there is no Scripture that supports that premise. In fact John records the devil's fate in Revelation 20:10+ "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever." How long will the devil be tormented according to John? These passages strongly support the premise that eternal fire will last forever, throughout eternity.

 

[Patrick1966]

Ditto

Ditto!
Same word for life eternal...does that mean "age long?"

Hi. What does the last sentence mean to you?

Mark 5:21-26

21“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brotherc will be liable to judgment; whoever insultsd his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the helle of fire. 23So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.

 

[Johann]

Hi. What does the last sentence mean to you?

Mark 5:21-26

21“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brotherc will be liable to judgment; whoever insultsd his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the helle of fire. 23So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.

Is there something you want to say? Or do you think I am judging you?
J.