In-depth Bible Study on Eternal Punishment

[MatthewG]

The Soul, according to Genesis 2:7 KJV, comes into existence as a consequence of the union of the body and the breath of life, and subsequently ceases to exist when the body returns to the dust and the breath of life returns to God just as it was when it came forth from Him.

Any ideas about a "disembodied soul" existence is purely paganism dragged into Christianity by the papal Antichrist during the Dark Ages when every stripe and type of paganism was baptized as "Christian" including Easter, Christmas, 40 days of Lent, innate immortality of the soul, eternal torment, Sunday sacredness, etc. It's a fact of history.

So, you agree that there can't be any eternal torment of the sinner if there is no eternal existence of the sinner? That's what Scripture says.

I use to walk around graveyard apologizing to people that they were there, only to realize everyone is resurrected and no one is laying in those graves but dead bones.

Yeah the very breathe you breathe in today is from God. It’s life, and once the life that you lived is over it goes forward to be judged and then, given spiritual body, be it condemned or of life.

Soul, is you it’s all of your collective (mind/heart/will/emotion). The very soul God gave you. To think it is not going anywhere is nonsensical…

And that is why I believe what John writes about the kingdom.

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is] a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree [are] for the service of the nations; and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him, and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads, and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign — to the ages of the ages. And he said to me, ‘These words [are] stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly: Lo, I come quickly; happy [is] he who is keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll.’ And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.’ And he saith to me, ‘Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh; he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still: And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last. ‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie. ‘I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star! And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely. ‘For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll, and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;’ he saith — who is testifying these things — ‘Yes, I come quickly!’ Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭1‬-‭21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Revelation 22:1-21 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is | Young's Literal Translation

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is

bible.com

I don’t know what you believe about it, but open implications of outside the heavenly kingdom and inside is very apparent.

 

[Phoneman777]

I use to walk around graveyard apologizing to people that they were there, only to realize everyone is resurrected and no one is laying in those graves but dead bones.

Can I ask where in Scripture is there anything that teaches all the dead are already resurrected? I find that "many of the bodies of the saints which slept" came up, but "many" isn't "all". Thanks.

 

[MatthewG]

Can I ask where in Scripture is there anything that teaches all the dead are already resurrected? I find that "many of the bodies of the saints which slept" came up, but "many" isn't "all". Thanks.

It’s by faith that I believe what I said is to be true.


I don’t think I have an answer for you.

 

[MatthewG]

Matthew 27:53 is the fifty-third verse of the twenty-seventh chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament. This verse describes some of the events that occurred upon the death of Jesus. The previous verse mentioned that tombs broke open and the saints inside were resurrected.

 

[Phoneman777]

It’s by faith that I believe what I said is to be true.


I don’t think I have an answer for you.

Thanks for being honest. What I can point you to is a verse (1 Corinthians 15:51-54 KJV) that says the dead "sleep" - a state in which they "know not anything" and experience no emotions, desires, or any other cognitive exercise (Ecclesiastes 9:6-10 KJV)...until the one or the other of the two resurrections (1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 KJV).

If you think about it, that's why Paul ALWAYS put emphasis on the resurrection - the dead rising to life. He never once directed Christians to claim the dead have gone to heaven and are happily walking on streets of gold or singing in the angelic choir or having their faces lit up by the glory of Jesus.

However, a few misapprehended verses - all of which can be explained to teach Conditional Immortality - have been used to teach the dead immediately appear in either flames of glory above or torment below.

 

[Phoneman777]

Matthew 27:53 is the fifty-third verse of the twenty-seventh chapter of the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament. This verse describes some of the events that occurred upon the death of Jesus. The previous verse mentioned that tombs broke open and the saints inside were resurrected.

I always try to imagine what it must be like for my name to appear in the Bible. I have friends named Timothy and Matthew and John and Mark and it seems to me it must be kinda odd to hear you own name associated with such profound words of truth!

I can't imagine hearing the preacher say, "Turn with me in your Bibles to Phoneman777, chapter 7, verse 7" LOL

 

[MatthewG]

Well I believe a little more than what most people believe @Phoneman777 .

Like I believe Jesus already came. So this we have differences. You can share scripture all day but it won’t change my mind about resurrection happening when you die whether or not your a believer or not.

@Phoneman777 I believe what John the beloved writes about the kingdom.

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is] a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree [are] for the service of the nations; and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him, and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads, and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign — to the ages of the ages. And he said to me, ‘These words [are] stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly: Lo, I come quickly; happy [is] he who is keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll.’ And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.’ And he saith to me, ‘Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh; he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still: And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last. ‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie. ‘I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star! And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely. ‘For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll, and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;’ he saith — who is testifying these things — ‘Yes, I come quickly!’ Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭1‬-‭21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Revelation 22:1-21 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is | Young's Literal Translation

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is

bible.com

Not just the generic version of “either hell or heaven”. That people spout about today. Waiting on Jesus.

The more plausible seems to be outside the kingdom in the heavenly realm, and inside the kingdom in the heavenly realm. With the lake of fire I see as an option, a cleanser that shows the truth of Christ founded only by going in for a time. A time I can’t say for sure how long it last.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well I believe a little more than what most people believe @Phoneman777 .

Like I believe Jesus already came. So this we have differences. You can share scripture all day but it won’t change my mind about resurrection happening when you die whether or not your a believer or not.

@Phoneman777 I believe what John the beloved writes about the kingdom.

“And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is] a tree of life, yielding twelve fruits, in each several month rendering its fruits, and the leaves of the tree [are] for the service of the nations; and any curse there shall not be any more, and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him, and they shall see His face, and His name [is] upon their foreheads, and night shall not be there, and they have no need of a lamp and light of a sun, because the Lord God doth give them light, and they shall reign — to the ages of the ages. And he said to me, ‘These words [are] stedfast and true, and the Lord God of the holy prophets did send His messenger to shew to His servants the things that it behoveth to come quickly: Lo, I come quickly; happy [is] he who is keeping the words of the prophecy of this scroll.’ And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to bow before the feet of the messenger who is shewing me these things; and he saith to me, ‘See — not; for fellow-servant of thee am I, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; before God bow.’ And he saith to me, ‘Thou mayest not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is nigh; he who is unrighteous — let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy — let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous — let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified — let him be sanctified still: And lo, I come quickly, and my reward [is] with me, to render to each as his work shall be; I am the Alpha and the Omega — the Beginning and End — the First and the Last. ‘Happy are those doing His commands that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of the life, and by the gates they may enter into the city; and without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one who is loving and is doing a lie. ‘I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies; I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star! And the Spirit and the Bride say, Come; and he who is hearing — let him say, Come; and he who is thirsting — let him come; and he who is willing — let him take the water of life freely. ‘For I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecy of this scroll, if any one may add unto these, God shall add to him the plagues that have been written in this scroll, and if any one may take away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the scroll of the life, and out of the holy city, and the things that have been written in this scroll;’ he saith — who is testifying these things — ‘Yes, I come quickly!’ Amen! Yes, be coming, Lord Jesus! The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [is] with you all. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭1‬-‭21‬ ‭YLT98‬‬

Revelation 22:1-21 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is | Young's Literal Translation

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, bright as crystal, going forth out of the throne of God and of the Lamb: in the midst of its broad place, and of the river on this side and on that, [is

bible.com

Not just the generic version of “either hell or heaven”. That people spout about today. Waiting on Jesus.

The more plausible seems to be outside the kingdom in the heavenly realm, and inside the kingdom in the heavenly realm. With the lake of fire I see as an option, a cleanser that shows the truth of Christ founded only by going in for a time. A time I can’t say for sure how long it last.

Jesus already came in power and glory? And all that stuff that is said will accompany His arrival happened? Or, do you believe all that is symbolism?

 

[MatthewG]

I believe by faith what Jesus promised to that generation standing before him, and to the events he promised all came to fruition which lead to the catastrophic demise of the nation of Israel in 70Ad. Where everything went up in literal flames. Those who were in watching, waiting, seen Jesus, and was saved from the wrath that be fallen the nation for having killed the son of God.