In-depth Bible Study on Eternal Punishment

[ChristisGod]

God would want it to be this way (I believe) stunnedbygrace so may his will be done over the constructions of what man can make.

Augustine was the first one to really start implanting this in the mind of many people in his day of literal fires of flame burning people.


For based upon his interpretation of various New Testament texts, Augustine insisted that hell is a literal lake of fire in which the damned will experience the horror of everlasting torment; they will experience, that is, the unbearable physical pain of literally being burned forever.Apr 23, 2013
View attachment 24508
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy › entries
Heaven and Hell in Christian Thought (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

No is started in the OT and Jesus teaching on it in the NT. I've posted numerous scriptures from Jesus.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.'

Matthew 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:

Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.

The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41),
“unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12),
“shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2),
a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49),
a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24),
“everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9),
a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11),
and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10).

The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end.got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Aaah…I don’t know why you assume the outer darkness or hell are synonymous with the lake of fire. Just because men are very distressed (gnashing) at being put in two different places does not mean those two places are the same place…
And in fact, hell can’t be the lake of fire or the verses that says, in the end, hell will be thrown into the lake of fire would read that the lake of fire will be thrown into the lake of fire…?

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing an answer from gotquestions @Christophany its a pretty handy site to get your questions answered of course so is studying the Bible and rightly dividing the Word my friend.

 

[Lambano]

I’ve searched and searched but cannot find any verse that says the outer darkness is eventually thrown into the lake of fire.

It doesn't need to be. The Light shines in the Darkness, and the Darkness cannot overcome it.

And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb. (Revelation 21:23)

And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illuminate them; and they will reign forever and ever. (Revelation 22:5)

 

[ChristisGod]

Thank you for sharing an answer from gotquestions @Christophany its a pretty handy site to get your questions answered of course so is studying the Bible and rightly dividing the Word my friend.

This is from me the rest from got?

No is started in the OT and Jesus teaching on it in the NT. I've posted numerous scriptures from Jesus.

Mark 9:42-48
42 "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. 45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. 47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where

"'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.'

Matthew 8:11-13
11 "I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; 12 but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Matthew 13:41-43
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.

Matthew 13:49-50
49 "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 22:13-14
"Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Matthew 24:48-51
48 "But if that evil slave says in his heart, 'My master is not coming for a long time,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with drunkards; 50 the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour which he does not know, 51 and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25:29-30
29 "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Scripture uses these terms and phrases as synonyms:

Unquenchable fire
Fiery hell
Black darkness
Outer darkness
Furnace of fire
Fire and brimstone
The smoke of their torment
The lake of fire which burns with brimstone
Where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched
The eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

All of the above carry the same meaning and consequences for the wicked.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It doesn't need to be. The Light shines in the Darkness, and the Darkness cannot overcome it.

And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illuminated it, and its lamp is the Lamb. (Revelation 21:23)

And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illuminate them; and they will reign forever and ever. (Revelation 22:5)

Then you lean also toward it being a purgatorial type place of a thousand years? That’s a question.

 

[Lambano]

If Purgatory exists, I actually think of Sheol/Hades more as being its location based on the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. Get the purging done before the Resurrection, though that would preclude the state between Death and Resurrection being similar to "sleep". Maybe sleep with good or bad dreams? I don't know what to make of the Outer Darkness. Is it a real place? A symbol of something that's really awful? For that matter, is the burning garbage dump of Gehenna a symbol for something that's incomprehensibly awful? I just know I don't want to go to either place. Nor do I want anybody I know to go there either.

I am curious as to why you think people who have Eternal Life in them will be sent to the Outer Darkness. The three references to the Outer Darkness (in Jesus's parables of the Banquet and the Talents, and a general statement about people who reject Him) would indicate otherwise. To borrow the language of the parable, to be bound hand-and-foot and thrown outside the city gates into a desert land full of scorpions and jackals and poisonous snakes without food or water is effectively a slow death sentence.

 

[farouk]

The simple and basic verse John 3.16 contains a warning about perishing; we do well to take heed.

 

[MatthewG]

A person can post scripture all they want to, however it all needs to be explained in context at the same time, I am not personally impressed by a persons scriptural knowledge as I am someone who shows love to God and love to others, @Christophany yes Jesus says some things, but if they are not put in their proper order or context or with anything else it just becomes to me a block of text.

If you would like to just simply share what is you personally believe about Eternal punishment which is not eternal but an age that only last until it’s over I would be fine with that.

I believe a lot of these things had to do with the Jewish nations rejection to Christ and crucifixion which he suffered death for the sins of all people.

When it boils down to it, I still believe Jesus has overcome Hell, Satan and His Angels, death, sin, and at the end of life all people will eventual be reconciled to God however not everyone will be in the Kingdom of the new heavenly Jerusalem.

There is a place for those outside…

Not sure if people have a problem with this, maybe they are hoping that all people who where faithless will be destroyed? I dont know.

God did destroy those that were backslidden who were lead out of bondage from Egypt, however does that mean he completely obliterated them in that time or where they all placed in hell until judgment day of the great dreadful day of the Lord for the generation in which Jesus had come to, which the bride was started?

But yes there is many things said by Jesus and they all have their proper order, and are all contextually sounded for the period and time of that age and generation in my best estimation but hey I could be wrong, after all many consider me a heretic.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I actually think of Sheol/Hades more as being the place of Purgatory based on the parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man. I don't know what to make of the Outer Darkness. Is it a real place? A symbol of something that's really awful? For that matter, is the burning garbage dump of Gehenna a symbol for something that's incomprehensibly awful? I just know I don't want to go to either place.

I am curious as to why you think people who have Eternal Life in them will be sent there. The three references to the Outer Darkness (in Jesus's parables of the Banquet and the Talents, and a general statement about people who reject Him) would indicate otherwise. To borrow the language of the parable, to be bound hand-and-foot and thrown outside the city gates into a desert land full of scorpions and jackals and poisonous snakes without food or water is effectively a slow death sentence.

Aahhh…it would be too long! Gah!
I believe (and so see verses and parables through that…lens) that four rivers (and by the way, episkopos showed me most of this) flowed out from the garden of Eden, just as there are four directions, north, South, west, east. Those four rivers/directions a man could go from the garden, are also four destinies. One of the rivers is foretold/prophesied to one day dry up. (Revelation…16?) So it is not an eternal destiny. It perishes, you could say. These 4 final destinies can also be seen here: 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
1. Doing harm to others, evil, wicked.
2. Filthy
3. Righteous
4. Holy

#1 would be the one that dries up/ is no longer/perishes/is annihilated. That leaves 3 destinies that are eternal. We know the righteous will be among the nations and the saints will rule over them.
I think the filthy are those cast into outer darkness.

I still am not sure if some are let out of the outer darkness after the millennium, but it never does say the outer darkness is cast into the lake of fire. It says hell and death are though.

But it DOES say there are more and less stripes given. That denotes worse or better punishments or durations of punishment, depending on whether or not you did something knowingly or not. You know the verse, right?

Many, many verses have gone into my thinking on this. For instance, my first inkling that the black and white view of only two fates of heaven or hell was not fully formed was when I read that there would be a worse fate for some men than the fate of sodom. My first shocked thought was, wait…are there better neighborhoods and ghettos in hell…? Isn’t hell just hell? If two men are in hell, how is it worse for one of them than it is for sodom…? Also, the parable about the man whose debt was forgiven who then withheld the forgiveness he was shown is thrown into a prison and will not come out until he has paid the last farthing. So it intones a purgatorial type place that I can only possibly find in the outer darkness. His debt was forgiven but then reinstated.

Anyway…any more and it would be too long!

 

[MatthewG]

To me the wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Israel in 70Ad and the heaven and earth they understood was obliterated, destroyed and they lost everything materially, this was the judgment of God for killing his son.

This would have a big impact on the bigger scope of the victory of Jesus over all things, in which God can be able to have his Will done having divorced Israel, and already have taken the bride of Christ who where the first fruits to believe in Him, who suffered severe persecution and death for faith in him…

You don’t see this type of thing in America it’s just non-existence in that time as years got up closer to Jesus return it waxed worse and worse, til the final great and fearful day of the Lord dropped and those looking and waiting seen him return and they were changed in the twinkling of an eye.

So in the end do you believe God will get his imperative will?

To have none perish?

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

wanting is defined as;


◄ 1014. boulomai ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
be disposed, determine, intend.
Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will," i.e. (reflexively) be willing -- be disposed, minded, intend, list, (be, of own) will (-ing). Compare ethelo.

Romans 14:11
It is written: “’As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”


That is up for you to decide.

 

[heartwashed]

But then it’s eternal life. Not a good eternal life but nevertheless, eternal life rather than a second death. But I notice you don’t use verses…you keep saying death is really eternal life/a forever existence, but you don’t use verses to show it.

Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 25:46, Revelation 20:10, are all verses that I think apply.

 

[ChristisGod]

To me the wrath of God was poured out on the nation of Israel in 70Ad and the heaven and earth they understood was obliterated, destroyed and they lost everything materially, this was the judgment of God for killing his son.

This would have a big impact on the bigger scope of the victory of Jesus over all things, in which God can be able to have his Will done having divorced Israel, and already have taken the bride of Christ who where the first fruits to believe in Him, who suffered severe persecution and death for faith in him…

You don’t see this type of thing in America it’s just non-existence in that time as years got up closer to Jesus return it waxed worse and worse, til the final great and fearful day of the Lord dropped and those looking and waiting seen him return and they were changed in the twinkling of an eye.

So in the end do you believe God will get his imperative will?

To have none perish?

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

wanting is defined as;


◄ 1014. boulomai ►
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
be disposed, determine, intend.
Middle voice of a primary verb; to "will," i.e. (reflexively) be willing -- be disposed, minded, intend, list, (be, of own) will (-ing). Compare ethelo.

Romans 14:11
It is written: “’As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.’”


That is up for you to decide.

I have and you are wrong . Gods wrath is poured out upon all mankind worldwide not just in Jerusalem as you have falsely assumed. It’s worldwide just like the universal flood in Genesis was the entire world of humanity.

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

Thank you for sharing your subjective view, @Christophany

 

[ChristisGod]

Thank you for sharing your subjective view, @Christophany

Agreed your view is 100 % subjective lacking any and all objectivity .

hope this helps !!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh lol. You guys have cracked me up.

 

[ChristisGod]

Oh lol. You guys have cracked me up.

Humor is good for the soul

 

[stunnedbygrace]

about people who reject Him

The woman who hid the spies and lied to her own countrymen to save their lives did not either reject Jesus nor accept Him. She showed mercy to men who belonged to God though and because she did, she was saved from death/destruction. She “gave them a cup of water”/showed mercy to them.

The parable about the man who knew he was about to be fired reads the same way.
The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. 9 I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings.

Who is it who will welcome others into their eternal dwellings? Might they say, that guy showed me mercy and Jesus will say, if you showed mercy to a member of My body, you showed mercy to Me?

 

[Lambano]

The woman who hid the spies and lied to her own countrymen to save their lives did not either reject Jesus nor accept Him. She showed mercy to men who belonged to God though and because she did, she was saved from death/destruction. She “gave them a cup of water”/showed mercy to them.

True. For when Gentiles who do not have Torah instinctively perform the requirements of Torah these, though not having Torah, are a Law to themselves.

 

[Jay Ross]

The woman who hid the spies and lied to her own countrymen to save their lives did not either reject Jesus nor accept Him. She showed mercy to men who belonged to God though and because she did, she was saved from death/destruction. She “gave them a cup of water”/showed mercy to them.

A verse to remember re Rahab: -

Matthew 1:5-6: - 5 Salmon begot Boaz by Rahab, Boaz begot Obed by Ruth, Obed begot Jesse, 6 and Jesse begot David the king.​

Rehab, in Matthew is given a place of honour in the genealogy of Christ along with Ruth and Bathsheba.

Oh well, how the scriptures are twisted to say whatever, by so many. We all have this tendency.