In response to a question I was asked. Who created OSAS.

[Wick Stick]

I don't understand how anyone can say
"I am saved" speaking in the past tense.
It's grammatically incorrect.

Salvation is something that happens after we die, in the future.
The correct way would be to say
"I will be saved".

No one is already saved while they are here on earth, it's a future event, not one of the past or present.

Common sense? Proper use of grammar? On THIS topic?

It's how Ephesians 2 is translated - "by grace you are saved." If one were to actually read the whole chapter, it becomes clear that what is being referenced is the initial conversion. The other word used in Eph 2 is "quickened," which means "brought to life."

Most Christians understand intuitively that when one is "saved" that is the beginning of the process, rather than the end.

Some have "learned" otherwise at the hands of some poor teachers.

 

[bdavidc]

I wanted to share a thought. Yesterday as I was leaving. I was asked a question, Who created OSAS? My answer was God. Sadly I was in a hurry (I was already 5 minutes past the time I should have left) and did not give it more thought. But then on my way home. I was thinking. The word OSAS is not in the bible. So how can we say God created it. Also. I was asked to prove it in the bible.. How can I when the word or acronym (which is what it really is) is not in scripture.

Men created the acronym OSAS. God revealed the truth that those who are truly born again are kept by His power and will not finally perish.

Jesus said of His sheep, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28. He also said, “Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” and that He would “raise him up at the last day” ~John 6:37, 40. Believers are “sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” ~Ephesians 1:13 and “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” ~1 Peter 1:5.

However, Scripture does not teach that perseverance is a flawed idea based on human effort. Jesus said, “He that endureth to the end shall be saved” ~Matthew 24:13. Hebrews says, “We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end” ~Hebrews 3:14. Paul spoke of continuing “in the faith grounded and settled” ~Colossians 1:23.

Those passages do not mean believers earn salvation or keep themselves saved by works. They mean genuine faith continues because God is working in His people. “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” ~Philippians 2:13. God preserves His people, and therefore His people persevere.

The phrase OSAS can be misleading when it is used to mean that anyone who once prayed a prayer or made a profession is secure regardless of whether he abandons Christ. Scripture gives no such assurance. Christ’s sheep hear His voice and follow Him ~John 10:27. Those who permanently depart reveal that their profession was not genuine: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

So the biblical conclusion is not merely, “Once saved, always saved.” It is this: those whom Christ truly saves, He keeps, and those whom He keeps continue in faith. Their continuance does not purchase salvation. It demonstrates the reality of God’s saving work.

The anger surrounding this subject does not prove either side. “The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God” ~James 1:20. The answer is not Calvinism, Arminianism, or slogans. The answer is to let all the relevant Scriptures speak and refuse to remove either God’s keeping power or the necessity of genuine, continuing faith.

 

[Gray_Joy]

I wanted to share a thought. Yesterday as I was leaving. I was asked a question, Who created OSAS? My answer was God. Sadly I was in a hurry (I was already 5 minutes past the time I should have left) and did not give it more thought. But then on my way home. I was thinking. The word OSAS is not in the bible. So how can we say God created it. Also. I was asked to prove it in the bible.. How can I when the word or acronym (which is what it really is) is not in scripture.

So this morning, something woke me up at 2: 30 AM. And I got to thinking about this. Wanted to share my thoughts.

While the Acronym OSAS may not be in scripture. The word Trinity is not either, Yet we can show that there is evidence the trinity is true. When I look back on my many years in Christian chat rooms. I think of the many times I have heard the term OSAS. When I think about why the word was used, I saw that most of the time the term was used, It was used as a derogatory anti-Calvin term. or that the term gives people a license to sin.

The term may be related to the P in Tulip. Which states a saint will persevere. Well this is a flawed statement, It is in response to Armenian thought we must persevere till the end. The problem is it depends on self. For a doctrine that rejects all aspects of free will or works, it resorts to an argument that we will work to keep ourself in the faith. This is not what scripture teaches.

Any way, this is beside the point. We are not arguing Calvin theology, if anyone wishes to open a thread. I will gladly show how every point of TULIP is flawed.

I personally do not open threads or talk about a belief in OSAS.. nor does it really even make sense. I know one guy in one chatroom that every other thread he started was an OSAS thread (for) and a lot of it was out of anger..which is a second thing I notice about this term. Some of the most heated arguments and hateful words I have ever seen in a Christian room are over this term. I have literally seen people from both sides get so out of hand. Mods have to shut down the threads. And I have seen many of them get banned from that chat room. Why is this? Are we not supposed to be brothers and sisters? Why does it instill such deep emotion and anger is many good people? Is it because of the Arminian/Calvin debate? Is it because it concerns the gospel, and no one likes to be told they are wrong? Why is this? ( I must confess I have also been drawn to anger over this discussion. so I am not trying to blame everyone else. I am guilty as well)

Who?

Jesus.

John 10:28
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

1John 5:11-13
And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Common sense? Proper use of grammar? On THIS topic?

It's how Ephesians 2 is translated - "by grace you are saved." If one were to actually read the whole chapter, it becomes clear that what is being referenced is the initial conversion. The other word used in Eph 2 is "quickened," which means "brought to life."

Most Christians understand intuitively that when one is "saved" that is the beginning of the process, rather than the end.

Some have "learned" otherwise at the hands of some poor teachers.

If a Christian says, I am Saved by the blood of the lamb, while it grammatically appears as past tense,it does not mean their experience is lost or temporary.

The past tense doesn't mean nor can it imply that Salvation is inpermenant.

The past tense emphasizes the permanence and security of God's first promise for which Christ died to secure for us eternally. Putting our sins under his blood for all time.

And God shall not ever hold them against us. They are erased for all time.
This means the foundation of our salvation is already securely established. And is irrevocable.

The falsehood that pursues its intention to make Christians who are eternally irrevocably saved in Christ,with his spirit indwelling us as his seal,guarantee,of eternal security until the day of redemption, is folly.

It is a veiled effort to add to the work of Christ. Implying,or saying outright,we must labor to keep ourselves secure in God's free gift of his grace.

While the purveyors of that falsehood obviously ignore,which vacates their efforts when we already know this, the passages in God's word that tells us, our good deeds,works, are the result of and proof of our being in Christ. They are not the toll we pay so to stay in Christ.

How do we know this? Because before,when we were spiritually dead and unable to understand the things of God,we would not have committed ourselves to good deeds,work,for the kingdom of God.

"Then they asked him, 'What must we do to do the works God requires?' Jesus answered, 'The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.'"
John 6:28-29
​

I am eternally Saved in Christ. Amen.



edit typo

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Men created the acronym OSAS. God revealed the truth that those who are truly born again are kept by His power and will not finally perish.

Jesus said of His sheep, “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand” ~John 10:28. He also said, “Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out” and that He would “raise him up at the last day” ~John 6:37, 40. Believers are “sealed with that holy Spirit of promise” ~Ephesians 1:13 and “kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation” ~1 Peter 1:5.

you just taught Once a person is saved, They will always be saved, or eternal security

However, Scripture does not teach that perseverance is a flawed idea based on human effort. Jesus said, “He that endureth to the end shall be saved”

Then it is based on our effort. Not Gods.. and all the verses you just posted about eternal security are contradicted.

~Matthew 24:13. Hebrews says, “We are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end” ~Hebrews 3:14. Paul spoke of continuing “in the faith grounded and settled” ~Colossians 1:23.

Those passages do not mean believers earn salvation or keep themselves saved by works. They mean genuine faith continues because God is working in His people. “For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure” ~Philippians 2:13. God preserves His people, and therefore His people persevere.

You either have faith in God or you do not.

You do not lose faith unless you never really believed in the first place. or the person you are trusting in has failed you.

The phrase OSAS can be misleading when it is used to mean that anyone who once prayed a prayer or made a profession is secure regardless of whether he abandons Christ. Scripture gives no such assurance. Christ’s sheep hear His voice and follow Him ~John 10:27. Those who permanently depart reveal that their profession was not genuine: “They went out from us, but they were not of us” ~1 John 2:19.

The words I have eternal life can be misused also.

It does nto matter if I say I have eternal life. Or I believe in OSAS. both have the same meaning and both can be misrepresented.

So the biblical conclusion is not merely, “Once saved, always saved.” It is this: those whom Christ truly saves, He keeps, and those whom He keeps continue in faith. Their continuance does not purchase salvation. It demonstrates the reality of God’s saving work.

Actually I disagree with the end, because it is putting onus on use.

A better term or phrase is God keeps his promise, even when we are fiahtless. He can not deny himself.

The anger surrounding this subject does not prove either side. “The wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God” ~James 1:20. The answer is not Calvinism, Arminianism, or slogans. The answer is to let all the relevant Scriptures speak and refuse to remove either God’s keeping power or the necessity of genuine, continuing faith.

The anger comes from pride..

 

[PS95]

I have certainly never met anybody who says that. However, I have seen people argue against the perseverance of the saints ("OSAS" if you like), saying that people who believe such things are led to live as though sinning didn't matter to them.

Well, I have! On this forum. Have you never read the banter back and forth between Behold and myself?
He has insisted many times that no matter how you live your life- even 100% full of sins and going back to your old life- choosing the world again ,over Christ and even denying Him until they die-- they will still be saved. He absolutely teaches that.

What he does when I challenge him on it is revert to saying I'm not saved and a heretic because I think works save people... No matter that I say- that's the accusation.
It's what I call osas 2.0

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Common sense? Proper use of grammar? On THIS topic?

It's how Ephesians 2 is translated - "by grace you are saved." If one were to actually read the whole chapter, it becomes clear that what is being referenced is the initial conversion. The other word used in Eph 2 is "quickened," which means "brought to life."

Most Christians understand intuitively that when one is "saved" that is the beginning of the process, rather than the end.

Some have "learned" otherwise at the hands of some poor teachers.

have you read eph 1 and 2?
eph 2
2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I was dead. I am alive (born again)

I was deep in sin, and walking in my own lusts, but now I am saved.

I am sitting currently in heavenly places..

It was all based on his grace. not by any works.

there is no confusion here..
whcih cancels out grace
the only confusion would be trying to interpret it to say our salvation by gace all of a sudden shifts to faith plus works.

 

[Wick Stick]

have you read eph 1 and 2?

Yes, I've put a good amount of time into studying those chapters specifically.

I would say that, with regards to the quickening (συνεζωοποίησεν) of Ephesians 2...

"Grace" answers the question "why?" while "faith" answers the question of "how?" Works are not relevant to the process.

 

[Wick Stick]

The past tense doesn't mean nor can it imply that Salvation is inpermenant.

The past tense emphasizes the permanence and security of God's first promise for which Christ died to secure for us eternally. Putting our sins under his blood for all time.

In Greek it isn't past tense, at all. The past tense is due to English not having a good way to translate perfect-participles.

Have you ever read the novel Pilgrim's Progress? I feel it does a good job explaining salvation. When one is "saved" they are put on the path of safety.

 

[Gray_Joy]

Yes, I've put a good amount of time into studying those chapters specifically.

I would say that, with regards to the quickening (συνεζωοποίησεν) of Ephesians 2...

"Grace" answers the question "why?" while "faith" answers the question of "how?" Works are not relevant to the process.

Ephesians 1 and 2 as far as the immutable law of God's salvation form his legal and theological structure that is clearly against the idea that works have any power to save us or keep us saved.

"Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law of faith." Romans 3:27

 

[Gray_Joy]

In Greek it isn't past tense, at all. The past tense is due to English not having a good way to translate perfect-participles.

Great information for this thread. Thank you.

Have you ever read the novel Pilgrim's Progress? I feel it does a good job explaining salvation. When one is "saved" they are put on the path of safety.

No,I've not read that boo

 

[ScottA]

In Greek it isn't past tense, at all. The past tense is due to English not having a good way to translate perfect-participles.

Have you ever read the novel Pilgrim's Progress? I feel it does a good job explaining salvation. When one is "saved" they are put on the path of safety.

The Greek translation is the best then, but the English translation is good also. Which is an excellent point--that is, understanding the proper tense. Because all things with God are present tense--"the same yesterday, today, and forever." Meaning, that we, living and passing through our own times, are correct in looking at salvation in past tense for those who have come into the fold of God in Christ seemingly before--but only in a worldly sense. Which is only so good.

Still, the point is salvation is according to God's timing, not men's or the times of this world. This means the matter (with God) is always "today" as Jesus told the thief on the cross. Beyond that--any argument to the contrary--is the foolishness of men--men of the world, defining all things (wrongly dividing all things) according to the ways of this world.

 

[PS95]

I love the fact that a doctrine that states we can not save ourselves. states a person will persevere to the end.

Thats alot of work. what does it look like?

Is it perfection?
Is it that we do not commit certain sins?
Is there a sin limit before God will take his salvation back?

I merely answered your question. It's a fact-- Who created osas? You then make light of His doctrine? That's quite comical. I suppose you would have to answer your own question with the late 19th century-early 20th (Southern Baptists).

I'm not a Calvinist, but I'll take a wild stab at your issue- the word, persevere? too harsh for you?

Do you also have a problem with these verses?

----
Romans 2:6-8
God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS:
7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.

Note- kjv says "patient continuance" same meaning.
----
Hebrews 10:36
For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
--------------
Galatians 6:9
And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season we shall reap if we do not lose heart.
---------------------
Matthew 24:13
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved
-----------------------
Luke 21:19
“By your endurance you will gain your lives.
------------------
James 1:3-4
because you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance. Allow perseverance to finish its work, so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.



Are you aware that there are sufferings, trials, disciplines and persecutions? Persevere in the faith to the end is the right word.
Didn't Paul describe it as running a race for a prize? Do races require endurance?

There is more to the scriptures than just believing- we then enter a race, and if we hold fast to the end we will be saved.
You call that works? I call it enduring. So do the scriptures.
Does Jesus help us - absolutely! And we can draw from His strength. and do all things through Him who strengthens us.
That requires an enduring cooperation.

You've misinterpreted this-

2 Timothy 2:12-13
12If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.


This does not mean what you stated. It clearly says, if we deny Him - He will deny us-
Paul is reiterating what Jesus taught--
But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. matt 10:33

I tell you, everyone who confesses Me before men, the Son of Man will also confess him before the angels of God. / But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.- Luke 12:8

He always remains faithful to HIMSELF. Can a person without faith please God?
-----------------------------
I normally do not involve myself in threads with people that want to argue osas.

I HAVE argued with Behold who teaches no matter what you do- no matter how awfully you live and return to the world 100%- denying Christ until death-
- you are saved-
NONSENSE.
You will know them BY THEIR FRUITS.