Inconsistency of teaching faith without works

[marks]

James 2 says we are justified by works the same as Abraham and Rahab, with God.

So long as you say it is with men and not God, then you will insert your doctrine of being justified by God without works.

So long as you say it is with men and not God

?

James 2:14-26 KJV
14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25) Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26) For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

First, Abraham believed God, and was credited with righteousness. Later, Abraham did the works which justified him, as the passage says, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

This passage does not say that we are justified to God by our works. Personally I find it plainly stated what this passage is saying.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As I've shown you from the passage. Do you not have an actual reply to what I said?

James - not me - James contextualizes his statements in, "You show me your faith, I'll show you mine", and then explains how you cannot show someone your faith without works in your life. They cannot see your heart or your mind, as God does - Who does not need evidence, but knows the truth about you - and all they can see is if you are doing as a Christian is to do, and in particular caring for the needs of others.

No one could see Abraham's faith, but God saw it, and that is why it's written that Abraham believed God, and his faith was counted for righteousness before he did the subsequent works. The works make demonstration to those who cannot see the heart. Abraham was justified prior to his works.

This context of demonstration to others is from James' own words, and really, the Words of God, to either be believed or rejected, which words fully harmonize with the balance of Scripture.

Much love!

AMEN

he did not say Show God your faith.

 

[mailmandan]

Teaching faith without works, as the only Bible means of salvation and justification, is found to be inconsistent when teaching about faith and works.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

One the one hand, the words of Ephesians 2 are believed and taken literally, so that we can only be saved by, with, and through the means of grace.

But on the other hand, the same words of James 2 are not believed and taken literally, so that we cannot be justified only by, with, and through the means of works.

If we are not justified by works, then neither are we justified by grace. If being justified by works, does not mean with works, then being saved by grace, does not mean with grace.

In Daniel 7, the one speaking things against God, thinks to change times and laws. He thinks to change the very nature of things in this life. That certainly includes the natural meaning of words and numbers.

The inconsistency of teaching faith without works in the Bible, can only be done by changing the meaning of words from one verse to the next. The same words themselves are applauded in one place, but spoken against in another place.

Consistent Bible teaching is obvious, because it's just repeating the words with the same faith and literacy in both places.

We are saved by grace, and we are justified by works.

James does not use the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24) Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[mailmandan]

Justification is a legal term, it means to be acquited or found innocent. or be found righteous.

Paul in romans 4 says we are justified by faith not works.

James is speaking about something else. His audience are people who CLAIM to have faith. but have zero works. he asked can that FAITh save them.

his answer is no.. it is a dead faith.

Abraham had living faith. but his works did not justify him else he have something to boast.

Amen! In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works in contradiction with Paul (Romans 4:2-6). His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

 

[Ghada]

Not by works of righteosuness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us

If your faith is in your works, its not in God..

Thank you for responding. Correct.

The teaching of Paul is clarified, that he only refers to past works before Christ.

None of our works which we have done before believing and loving God from the heart, saves nor justifies us with God.. They were all as filthy rags.

No works means no work period..

No problem. Your gospel says no past, present, nor future works have anything to do with being saved and justified.

Your gospel is not the good news of salvation from sinning, but another news of not being judged by works.

You can;t save yourself.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

We can save ourselves from the judgment of the wicked by doing good through faith.

The Bible says we cannot save ourselves from judgement of God, by our own faith alone.

Your gospel says differently.

No, They claimed faith plus works. Like you are doing

They claimed justification by works of the law without faith.

The ones speaking of faith plus works is James 2 and 2 Peter 1.

Paul fought legalism (faith plus works) James fought licentiousness (no faith)

Legalism is works of the law without the faith of Jesus. It also includes works of commandments of men, that are not in the law of Christ. (Mark 7)(Titus 1)

The words of James 2 says nothing of licentiousness,, but of faith without doing good.

Bible teaching of licentiousness is against those believers, that promise the liberty of sinning without condemnation. (2 Peter 2) That is from the gospel of being save by faith alone without any judgement for any works.

No it is the teaching of mere belief, no faith based on no true repentance.

James 2 says nothing of 'no faith', but only of faith alone without works. In James 1 we see it is about believers by hearing only, that are judged as unbelievers by not doing good.

. But in pride refusing to truly repent. and come to saving faith

A refusal to repent is proof of believing what was heard, but unwilling to do the word. It's the believers by hearing only, that do not obey the gospel.

No faith would be caring nothing for the commands of the faith, such as Islam. I don't care what Allah has to say at all. That is called no faith in Allah.

Yes, Even demons believe but tremble.

True. It's believing without obeying, and so not justified with God by works.

No one is saved by mere belief, they are saved by faith.

This is playing word games. Trying to make difference between 'having faith' and 'believing', is what Paul calls useless strifes of words. It's like trying to define what is, is.

thats WHY they have no works. because they have no faith..

No such words in James 2 of 'no faith'.

Its not the lack of works which condemn them, it is their lack of faith.

In James 2, It's the lack of works which condemn the faith, as being dead and useless to save the soul. They have faith by hearing only, but are not doers of the word.

no, it is not. if it is, then Paul and james contradict each other. and we can throw the whole bible out

The whole Bible is thrown out when any part is opposed. Being justified by faith only, and not by works, throws out James 2 first, and then any other verses of the Bible having to do with faith, salvation, justification, and works.

God does not need to see your works to know if you have faith or not.

If you think he does. then you do not know God very well

Already challenged this, without response.

A dead faith is no faith at all

Not in James 2.

Psalms 10 speaks of no faith, where no claim of faith is made at all.

ALso, I have no faith in Allah, so I don't care what he says one way or the other.

Paul said we are saved by grace through faith not works

I don't read being saved by grace through faith "not works". That is the doctrine of another faith, not that of Jesus in the Bible.

The people in James did not have that faith.. they had mere belief because they did not repent..

True. We can call any faith without works as being 'mere belief". It's mere belief, and knowledge, that comes by hearing only. Faith without works is knowledge-only faith by hearing alone.

The teaching of salvation by faith without works, is the gospel of 'mere belief'.

 

[Ghada]

I recommend you Get off James,

This is a recommendation that only those not believing all the words of the Bible would make.

I would never make any recommendation that anyone 'Get off' or is 'stuck' on any part of the Bible. I would endeavor to help them understand something, but I would never tell even a child to leave parts of the Bible alone.

you have problems with it,

I have problems with Christians that don't believe it's words as written, and then try to change it into something else.

because you do not understand what James is saying,

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Faith having not works cannot save a man.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Faith having not works is dead faith alone.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Abraham and Rahab were examples to all believers of being justified with God by works.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Like Abraham and Rahab, the believers are justified by works, and not by faith only.

It's always easy to understand teaching of the Bible. We just believe the words as written and repeat them.

What's hard to understand, is why some believers try to change the words into something else to fit their own ideas about doctrine of Christ.

Although, with many it's fairly obvious. It's to justify the unrighteous believers that do not the word, but trust in their own faith alone to save and justify them.

That's why they wish James 2 would just go away. Some have resorted to suggesting that the epistle of James ought not be in the Bible as words of God.

and you need to focus on the rest of the word

As we see here.

And so we see how there is an endless division with all verses, when there is an irreconcilable difference in one or two certain plain spoken verse.

I teach all doctrine of Christ based upon faith without works is dead, and we are justified with God by works, and not by faith only.

Others teach faith alone saves and justifies without and apart from any works at any time.

Therefore, the proper teaching of the doctrine of Christ will be based upon the truth of one or the other.

I just repeat God's own words in James 2.

Here are the arguments to make James 2 say something else:

1. The justification in James 2 is by man, and not by God.

This is easily set aside, because the examples of being justified by works are of God with Abraham and Rahab.

2. The works are of ministry only, so that the judgment of those works is not of justification or condemnation, but only of rewards.

This is easily set aside also, because the faith spoken of in James 2 pertains to being saved, as well as being justified. (v 14)

3. The faith in James 2 is that of no faith only, not faith without works.

This is just as easily set aside, because the faith spoken of is faith without works, and nothing is said of 'no faith.'

And so, I will remain stuck on James 2 even more so, now that I have seen the spurious arguments against it.

I have also shown by the words of Paul, that he only speaks of works without faith, which we have done in the past, that cannot save nor justify a man before Christ. And so he is not contradicting James, who says we are justified by present works of faith with Christ.

 

[Ghada]

It can't be both

Not if another outside teaching is inserted into the Bible, to change the gospel of the Bible.

And yet it is both in the Bible. We are saved by grace and justified by works.

The point is confirmed here, that some Christians resort to changing the meaning of words, in order to teach something different from all the words of the Bible.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

 

[Ghada]

it does not appear you know what grace or works mean..

I know what they mean in the Bible, which is not what some people mean.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Bible grace is for help in time of need to overcome temptation in sin. Another kind of grace is taught only as a cover for sin. They teach the same about the blood Jesus, as though it only covers sin like that of a bull or goat from the OT.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Works in the Bible are what every man is judged by with the Father. Those works He judges includes thoughts and intents of the heart (Matthew 5:28), spoken and written words (Matthew 12:37), and deeds of the body (Is 59:18) (Jerem 25:14) (John 3:19-20) (Rom 2:6).

Some Christians believe by their own faith alone, that they are exempt from God's judgement of their works.

When someone is asking what works mean bodily, they are only trying to play word games, in order to divert the teaching from the Bible to some other theological book or philosophy.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Paul says not to waste time with such things.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Teaching faith without works, as the only Bible means of salvation and justification, is found to be inconsistent when teaching about faith and works.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

One the one hand, the words of Ephesians 2 are believed and taken literally, so that we can only be saved by, with, and through the means of grace.

But on the other hand, the same words of James 2 are not believed and taken literally, so that we cannot be justified only by, with, and through the means of works.

If we are not justified by works, then neither are we justified by grace. If being justified by works, does not mean with works, then being saved by grace, does not mean with grace.

In Daniel 7, the one speaking things against God, thinks to change times and laws. He thinks to change the very nature of things in this life. That certainly includes the natural meaning of words and numbers.

The inconsistency of teaching faith without works in the Bible, can only be done by changing the meaning of words from one verse to the next. The same words themselves are applauded in one place, but spoken against in another place.

Consistent Bible teaching is obvious, because it's just repeating the words with the same faith and literacy in both places.

We are saved by grace, and we are justified by works.

Well now you are adding justification but even romans four clearly says we are justified by Faith. No works. Works that please God are the result of being saved and eternally secure! Works do not keep, maintain, enhance or improve our salvation! All that is done by Jesus and Jesus alone!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for responding. Correct.

The teaching of Paul is clarified, that he only refers to past works before Christ.

None of our works which we have done before believing and loving God from the heart, saves nor justifies us with God.. They were all as filthy rags.

no. Paul said not by works period. he never says just past works..

No problem. Your gospel says no past, present, nor future works have anything to do with being saved and justified.

Your gospel is not the good news of salvation from sinning, but another news of not being judged by works.

Your gospel is not good news. You gospel says you must save yourself you must work hard to earn it.. Thats not good news.. Thats setting yourself up for failure

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

We can save ourselves from the judgment of the wicked by doing good through faith.

The Bible says we cannot save ourselves from judgement of God, by our own faith alone.

Your gospel says differently.

Yes, we need to save ourselves from a wicked generation

but we can not save ourselves from Hell

They claimed justification by works of the law without faith.

The ones speaking of faith plus works is James 2 and 2 Peter 1.

Wrong, Paul never mentioned the law in romans 4. there was no law in abrahams time

Legalism is works of the law without the faith of Jesus. It also includes works of commandments of men, that are not in the law of Christ. (Mark 7)(Titus 1)

The words of James 2 says nothing of licentiousness,, but of faith without doing good.

Bible teaching of licentiousness is against those believers, that promise the liberty of sinning without condemnation. (2 Peter 2) That is from the gospel of being save by faith alone without any judgement for any works.

Legalism is salvation by works, using a legal system,, or command system, not just the law. but any work

james 2 speaks explicity of licentious

the people claimed to have faith, but they thought they could live in sin with no condemnation.

James 2 says nothing of 'no faith', but only of faith alone without works. In James 1 we see it is about believers by hearing only, that are judged as unbelievers by not doing good.

without works.

if a person did 1 work. it would not be without works..

A refusal to repent is proof of believing what was heard, but unwilling to do the word. It's the believers by hearing only, that do not obey the gospel.

No faith would be caring nothing for the commands of the faith, such as Islam. I don't care what Allah has to say at all. That is called no faith in Allah.

True faith saved, if you trust your God to save you, you will trust him in other areas to. and you will follow him. Maybe not perfectly. but you will change.. your a new creation

True. It's believing without obeying, and so not justified with God by works.

No it is belief minus trust, = no faith.

I can believe something, yet not have faith in that thing, if I do not trust it. I will generally steer clear it it and not use it..

This is playing word games. Trying to make difference between 'having faith' and 'believing', is what Paul calls useless strifes of words. It's like trying to define what is, is.

if you do not understand the difference between believing in someone/somethign and actually trusting them,, then that's a major issue

The demons believe in God. they know and believe his son was killed and rose again, but they do not trust him, thats why they walked away inspite of all they saw..

No such words in James 2 of 'no faith'.

dead faith = no faith
true faith = living faith

In James 2, It's the lack of works which condemn the faith, as being dead and useless to save the soul. They have faith by hearing only, but are not doers of the word.

The whole Bible is thrown out when any part is opposed. Being justified by faith only, and not by works, throws out James 2 first, and then any other verses of the Bible having to do with faith, salvation, justification, and works.

They do not do because they do not have faith..

Already challenged this, without response.


Not in James 2.

Psalms 10 speaks of no faith, where no claim of faith is made at all.

ALso, I have no faith in Allah, so I don't care what he says one way or the other.



I don't read being saved by grace through faith "not works". That is the doctrine of another faith, not that of Jesus in the Bible.


True. We can call any faith without works as being 'mere belief". It's mere belief, and knowledge, that comes by hearing only. Faith without works is knowledge-only faith by hearing alone.

The teaching of salvation by faith without works, is the gospel of 'mere belief'.

for by grace we have been saved through faith, not of works

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is a recommendation that only those not believing all the words of the Bible would make.

I would never make any recommendation that anyone 'Get off' or is 'stuck' on any part of the Bible. I would endeavor to help them understand something, but I would never tell even a child to leave parts of the Bible alone.

I believe God gave us a whole book. when we continually stick to one passage or a few verses. and thats all. we make the bibkle say what we want, and do not listen to what it says.

I look to the whole book. and I understand james, James is not saying what you think, he does not contradict paul like your making him do

I have problems with Christians that don't believe it's words as written, and then try to change it into something else.

so you do not believe in yourself? because thats what you are doing

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Faith having not works cannot save a man.

He did not say they had faith, he said THEY said they had faith.

and he asked if that CLAIMED faith can save them.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Faith having not works is dead faith alone.

I agree, If you have faith you WILL have works. But works are not a part of salvation, they are a result of it

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

Abraham and Rahab were examples to all believers of being justified with God by works.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Like Abraham and Rahab, the believers are justified by works, and not by faith only.

It's always easy to understand teaching of the Bible. We just believe the words as written and repeat them.

What's hard to understand, is why some believers try to change the words into something else to fit their own ideas about doctrine of Christ.

Although, with many it's fairly obvious. It's to justify the unrighteous believers that do not the word, but trust in their own faith alone to save and justify them.

That's why they wish James 2 would just go away. Some have resorted to suggesting that the epistle of James ought not be in the Bible as words of God.


As we see here.

And so we see how there is an endless division with all verses, when there is an irreconcilable difference in one or two certain plain spoken verse.

I teach all doctrine of Christ based upon faith without works is dead, and we are justified with God by works, and not by faith only.

Others teach faith alone saves and justifies without and apart from any works at any time.

Therefore, the proper teaching of the doctrine of Christ will be based upon the truth of one or the other.

I just repeat God's own words in James 2.

Here are the arguments to make James 2 say something else:

1. The justification in James 2 is by man, and not by God.

This is easily set aside, because the examples of being justified by works are of God with Abraham and Rahab.

2. The works are of ministry only, so that the judgment of those works is not of justification or condemnation, but only of rewards.

This is easily set aside also, because the faith spoken of in James 2 pertains to being saved, as well as being justified. (v 14)

3. The faith in James 2 is that of no faith only, not faith without works.

This is just as easily set aside, because the faith spoken of is faith without works, and nothing is said of 'no faith.'

And so, I will remain stuck on James 2 even more so, now that I have seen the spurious arguments against it.

I have also shown by the words of Paul, that he only speaks of works without faith, which we have done in the past, that cannot save nor justify a man before Christ. And so he is not contradicting James, who says we are justified by present works of faith with Christ.

You do as many people do. You cut what james said, and missed the whole point

lets look at what you cut out

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [f]your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

He did not say justify yourself before God. He said prove to ME your faith. without works. and I will prove you you my faith with works.

you believe in God you do well

But it will not save you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not if another outside teaching is inserted into the Bible, to change the gospel of the Bible.

And yet it is both in the Bible. We are saved by grace and justified by works.

The point is confirmed here, that some Christians resort to changing the meaning of words, in order to teach something different from all the words of the Bible.

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Romans 4:4

Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11:6

And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

nice try,, But the word of God says otherwise.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I know what they mean in the Bible, which is not what some people mean.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Bible grace is for help in time of need to overcome temptation in sin. Another kind of grace is taught only as a cover for sin. They teach the same about the blood Jesus, as though it only covers sin like that of a bull or goat from the OT.

But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Works in the Bible are what every man is judged by with the Father. Those works He judges includes thoughts and intents of the heart (Matthew 5:28), spoken and written words (Matthew 12:37), and deeds of the body (Is 59:18) (Jerem 25:14) (John 3:19-20) (Rom 2:6).

Some Christians believe by their own faith alone, that they are exempt from God's judgement of their works.

When someone is asking what works mean bodily, they are only trying to play word games, in order to divert the teaching from the Bible to some other theological book or philosophy.

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Paul says not to waste time with such things.

Grace is a gift. it is not earned. It is paid by someone else

You work for a wage, or a reward.. you earn your wage or reward

Salvation is a gift. It can not be earned.. If it could be earned, Christ died in vein.

 

[Ghada]

As I've shown you from the passage. Do you not have an actual reply to what I said?

I've shown you the reply. You have no challenge to it.

The justification in James 2 is with God by works, with Abraham and Rahab being good examples.

It's not justification by men through show of works.

 

[Ghada]

This passage does not say that we are justified to God by our works. Personally I find it plainly stated what this passage is saying.

Much love!

Of course you personally do, because you practise ignoring some words, in order to change others by your own personal faith alone.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

The justification is with God by works, with good examples of Abraham and Rahab.

 

[marks]

I've shown you the reply.

Where?

The passage speaks plainly. I've not seen any refutation of the plainness of James' writing.

Much love!

 

[marks]

because you practise ignoring some words, in order to change others by your own personal faith alone.

OK, once you get into this junk I figure you have nothing left. I get it.

Ye who would be justified by the Law, do you not hear what the Law says? If you keep it you live. If you break one commandment, one least part, you are a lawbreaker, and guilty of all. Once you break a law, you can never be a lawkeeper, because you've already broken it.

And so if you look to the Law you are a dead man. No one can keep the Law. You cannot - cannot! - keep the commandments! No one can, there is no temple! No Levital priesthood, that's it, you're done!

Or you can trust in Christ and be born again, dead to the Law, dead to sin, and alive to God. And if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. But if you seek to serve the Law, "the motions of sin in the flesh, which were by the Law", you are making trouble for yourself.

"If I build again that thing I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor." The Law always and only condemns, because everyone breaks it. Of course, the Law was given to be a covenant between Israel and God. We have a covenant in Christ that we serve Christ, not the Law that was given to Israel, in the time before Christ came.

Much love!

 

[Ghada]

James does not use the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous.

Paul calls this striving about words to no effect. The Bible does not make difference between 'accounted' as righteous and 'being' righteous.

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

No problem. And when those works are done, only then we are justified by them with God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Nothing comes by faith without works, but death without God, because that faith is dead to God.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9);

True. Paul clarifies that we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done without Christ. (Gal 5) No past works of our own qualify us for being saved by God.

Pau;l never says we are saved by faith alone, by faith without works, nor by any works at all, which would contradict James 2.

That includes Romans 2 and James 1, where only the doers of the word are justified by God, and not the hearers only.

Which also includes John saying only the doers of righteousness and the truth are born of God. Which Jesus confirms by saying only the doers of the will of God are His family.

The faith alone doctrine of hearers only, is dead faith by knowledge only through hearing. Faith without doing is dead and does nothing to save nor justify a man to be in God's family of the righteous.

At least that's what the Bible says. Others play games with the words of the Bible to say and teach some other faith and gospel, than that of Jesus Christ.

yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24) Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone"

This is absolutely true. We are to only believe Jesus as the true God and do His will to please the Father.

That's not the doctrine of faith alone without works.

(and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

True. Not for one second, because Satan comes to take away any faith sown in our hearts by hearing the word, if we are not doing faith to resist Him until he flees from us.

God the Sower makes sure to divide between the hearers only, and the doers of His word, by allowing the devil to immediately try our faith upon hearing. He sees if we are fighting to resist the devil, or allowing his lust and corruption of the world to continue in our hearts.

Faith alone without works is by hearing only, and is dead seed on the wayside, that immediately taken out of the hearts of the unrepentant non-doers of the word.

 

[Ghada]

Where?

The passage speaks plainly. I've not seen any refutation of the plainness of James' writing.

Much love!

I've given it twice.

The argument against justification in James 2 being with God by works is obviously false.

James 2 gives Abraham and Rahab as good examples to all believers of being justified with God by works.

 

[marks]

I've given it twice.

Where? Not that I've seen. Please point me to the post. If it's a lengthy post, maybe you could just quote the part, and include @marks in your post.

The argument against justification in James 2 being with God by works is obviously false.

James 2 gives Abraham and Rahab as good examples to all believers of being justified with God by works.

Works are the proof of faith. Do you suppose God doesn't know whether you believe Him, does He not know whether you've been born again, until He sees what you do? No, He knows our hearts, more than we do! He knows those who are His, being His children. Do you have children? If you do you'll know what I mean. You know your own kids.

Claiming this is teaching we are justifed to God by our works ignores the plain context of the passage, and that's no way to rightly divide Scripture.

Much love!