Inconsistency of teaching faith without works

[Ghada]

Teaching faith without works, as the only Bible means of salvation and justification, is found to be inconsistent when teaching about faith and works.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

One the one hand, the words of Ephesians 2 are believed and taken literally, so that we can only be saved by, with, and through the means of grace.

But on the other hand, the same words of James 2 are not believed and taken literally, so that we cannot be justified by, with, and through the means of works.

If we are not justified by works, then neither are we justified by grace. If being justified by works, does not mean with works, then being saved by grace, does not mean with grace.

In Daniel 7, the one speaking things against God, thinks to change times and laws. He thinks to change the very nature of things in this life. That certainly includes the natural meaning of words and numbers.

The inconsistency of teaching faith without works in the Bible, can only be done by changing the meaning of words from one verse to the next. It's the same in word definitions as numbers manipulation.

If By grace in one place means with and through the means of grace, but by works elsewhere does not mean with and through the means of works, then it is the same as saying 2 + 2 equals 4 in one place, but 2 + 2 does not equal 4 in another. It's the work of the dishonest, that manipulate words of the Bible, in order to purposely bring confusion to the doctrine of Christ.

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth,

We see here in 1 Tim 6, that such things are purposely done by those Christians teaching an imperfect gospel that leads to continued sinning and ungodliness in life, which is not the gospel of godliness in the Bible.

The Bible says that we are saved by grace, and we are justified by works. Anything different is just a word game of changing the truth of God's words into a lie. Some Christians say we are saved by grace, but not justified by works.

 

[Ghada]

Another inconsistency is dealing with grace and faith.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

On the one hand, Eph 2 is taken to mean by faith alone, and without works, because there is no mention of works with faith.

On the other hand, Rom 3 is not taken to mean by grace alone, and without faith, even though there is no mention of faith with works.

If we're going to rule out works with faith in Eph 2, because of works' absence in the verse, then we may also rule out faith with grace in, because of faith's absence in the verse.

The same can be said for being justified by faith without grace in Rom 5:

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[MatthewG]

Interesting work here.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

If you have no Grace you are not Saved in Christ Jesus.
If you have Faith ? well oh ye of little faith ? But the Faith that can move mountains ! big different's and if one is of little faith then such a one is not Saved ? because they lack Grace ! and if you have Grace given to you from that in Christ Jesus, then you do have faith abundantly ! Because he does the work in you ? It's not you who does the work, but one in Christ abides ! It's a Calling ! you have a vocation ? it's not a Job ? it's not something you do like in regarding it's a Job ? it's your calling ! it's your everything and first and foremost in your life.

 

[Ghada]

Interesting work here.

Thank you. It's really just an exercise of grammatical comprehension and logic of words. I believe many times we Christians tend to be sloppy with the Bible, because we think God the Spirit isn't precise with men's words. I find much of Bible doctrine is perfectly analytical.

Several verses are brought together to conclude with with mathematical precision. Like math, it takes discipline not to overlook any words of the Bible, nor to insert our own words into the Bible. That's how things are taken away and added to His word.

 

[Ghada]

If you have no Grace you are not Saved in Christ Jesus.
If you have Faith ? well oh ye of little faith ? But the Faith that can move mountains ! big different's and if one is of little faith then such a one is not Saved ? because they lack Grace ! and if you have Grace given to you from that in Christ Jesus, then you do have faith abundantly !

True. And it's our works that are judged by God, as either by grace through His faith, or by our own will without His grace and faith.

Because he does the work in you ? It's not you who does the work, but one in Christ abides !

True. Only Jesus Christ can do the inward work of washing us clean from all our old past life without His Spirit.

Only Jesus can make all old things pass away, and all things become instantly new and of God. When we are born again by the Spirit of God, we are now instantly in soul, spirit, and body made new and blameless. All things in life are now of God, and no more of sin and the devil.

It's a Calling ! you have a vocation ? it's not a Job ? it's not something you do like in regarding it's a Job ? it's your calling ! it's your everything and first and foremost in your life.

True. It's not hard to serve the Lord when we love Him with a whole heart.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

We must endure temptations, tribulations, and the catastrophic things of this life like all men, but doing good is made easy by loving God and His righteousness.

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright. He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

It's the way of the transgressor that is hard.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Teaching faith without works, as the only Bible means of salvation and justification, is found to be inconsistent when teaching about faith and works.

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

One the one hand, the words of Ephesians 2 are believed and taken literally, so that we can only be saved by, with, and through the means of grace.

But on the other hand, the same words of James 2 are not believed and taken literally, so that we cannot be justified only by, with, and through the means of works.

If we are not justified by works, then neither are we justified by grace. If being justified by works, does not mean with works, then being saved by grace, does not mean with grace.

In Daniel 7, the one speaking things against God, thinks to change times and laws. He thinks to change the very nature of things in this life. That certainly includes the natural meaning of words and numbers.

The inconsistency of teaching faith without works in the Bible, can only be done by changing the meaning of words from one verse to the next. The same words themselves are applauded in one place, but spoken against in another place.

Consistent Bible teaching is obvious, because it's just repeating the words with the same faith and literacy in both places.

We are saved by grace, and we are justified by works.

Justification is a legal term, it means to be acquited or found innocent. or be found righteous.

Paul in romans 4 says we are justified by faith not works.

James is speaking about something else. His audience are people who CLAIM to have faith. but have zero works. he asked can that FAITh save them.

his answer is no.. it is a dead faith.

Abraham had living faith. but his works did not justify him else he have something to boast.




'

 

[Ghada]

Justification is a legal term, it means to be acquited or found innocent. or be found righteous.

Though God uses man's words, that does not mean He uses and defines them the same way as man.

God's use of our words are defined by Him in doctrine of the Bible.

God defines His justification by grace, faith, and works together at the same time.

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

God's justification is defined by all three, and not by any one of them alone, whether it be grace, faith, or works.

Some Christians believe in the justification by grace and faith alone, which is not the Justification defined by God in the Bible. They do not believe in the Bible justification that is also defined by works.

Paul in romans 4 says we are justified by faith not works.

Nowhere does any verse in the Bible say that. Sometimes God defines His justification by grace, by faith, and by works in different verses of the Bible. But all three together define His justification.

The only thing in the Bible, that is similar to your above statement, is that we are justified by works, and not faith alone.

And so, since we are justified by faith, then we cannot be justified by works alone.

James is speaking about something else. His audience are people who CLAIM to have faith. but have zero works. he asked can that FAITh save them.

James is speaking of justification. And he makes no difference between claiming faith, having faith, and believing.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Here, he speaks of saying we have faith.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Here, he speaks of us having faith.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

And here, he speaks of us believing. The believers.

James is saying that faith and believing is dead without works, and does not save nor justify any man, any more than it does devils.

Whether claiming faith, having faith, or believing, if it has not works, it is dead, being alone.

Anyone that teaches claiming and having any faith without works, is teaching of a faith and believing, that the Bible calls dead. It is the faith of another gospel. They are believers, but still just as unjustified as devils.

The rebuke of Jesus in James 2 is for all believers to be warned of not having works with their faith.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

To ever be justified by Jesus, we must always be with works pleasing our Father as He did on earth. The Bible defines faith alone without works, as doing nothing and so saves nothing.

his answer is no.. it is a dead faith.

True. Any faith without works is dead faith, and can save no man.

It's the faith of hearers only. (James 1) It's knowledge-only faith, that all people have by hearing the gospel alone.

It's not the saving faith of Jesus in the heart, that believes unto righteousness and is justified by doing of His word.

Abraham had living faith. but his works did not justify him else he have something to boast.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Either correct this teaching of God's words in Romans 4, or acknowledge it does not believe His words in James 2. Also acknowledge it claims the apostle Paul does not agree with the Apostle James and vica versa.

To avoid this teaching of contradiction in the Bible, we must first stop inserting the doctrine of having saving faith without works.

If any teaching of the above doctrine were quoted alongside James 2:21, then perhaps it would at least give them pause to reconsider what they are teaching about the Bible

The apparent contradiction is easily set aside, when the Bible teaching of dead faith without works is believed.

Since God cannot possibly mean any and all works are apart from His justification, since He defines His justification by works, then the works that we are not justified by, must be works without faith. The works of our own righteousness. Which includes all past works we have done before believing and obeying God by Jesus Christ.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Now the Scripture agree and support one another, by rightly dividing between unjustified works without faith, and justified works of faith.

 

[marks]

True. And it's our works that are judged by God, as either by grace through His faith, or by our own will without His grace and faith.



True. Only Jesus Christ can do the inward work of washing us clean from all our old past life without His Spirit.

Only Jesus can make all old things pass away, and all things become instantly new and of God. When we are born again by the Spirit of God, we are now instantly in soul, spirit, and body made new and blameless. All things in life are now of God, and no more of sin and the devil.

True. It's not hard to serve the Lord when we love Him with a whole heart.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

We must endure temptations, tribulations, and the catastrophic things of this life like all men, but doing good is made easy by loving God and His righteousness.

For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright. He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

It's the way of the transgressor that is hard.

God doesn't need to see your works to know if you have faith, that's for people.

James 2:18 KJV
18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

God justifies us when we believe Him. We are justified before men when we are different because of it.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Though God uses man's words, that does not mean He uses and defines them the same way as man.

God's use of our words are defined by Him in doctrine of the Bible.

God defines His justification by grace, faith, and works together at the same time.

Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

God's justification is defined by all three, and not by any one of them alone, whether it be grace, faith, or works.

Some Christians believe in the justification by grace and faith alone, which is not the Justification defined by God in the Bible. They do not believe in the Bible justification that is also defined by works.

God wrote the bible. the greek word justified is actually the same word that means righteous.. It is again a legal term.

now your three examples do not fot. one contradicts the others.

1. Justified freely, it means there is no cost. The cost is redemption which was paid by the blood of Christ on the cross.
2. Justified by faith.. again, no works involved
3. Here we have the word works added.. which not only contradicts the 1st example.. justified freely. but contradicts pauls words.

rom 4: 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

so once again, we are required to solve the appearant contradiction between James and paul.. and you can not leave pauls words out of your examples.

Nowhere does any verse in the Bible say that. Sometimes God defines His justification by grace, by faith, and by works in different verses of the Bible. But all three together define His justification.

No where??

have you read romans 4?

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.


5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin

The only thing in the Bible, that is similar to your above statement, is that we are justified by works, and not faith alone.

And so, since we are justified by faith, then we cannot be justified by works alone.

James is speaking of justification. And he makes no difference between claiming faith, having faith, and believing.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Here, he speaks of saying we have faith.

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Here, he speaks of us having faith.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

And here, he speaks of us believing. The believers.

James is saying that faith and believing is dead without works, and does not save nor justify any man, any more than it does devils.

Whether claiming faith, having faith, or believing, if it has not works, it is dead, being alone.

Anyone that teaches claiming and having any faith without works, is teaching of a faith and believing, that the Bible calls dead. It is the faith of another gospel. They are believers, but still just as unjustified as devils.

The rebuke of Jesus in James 2 is for all believers to be warned of not having works with their faith.

And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

To ever be justified by Jesus, we must always be with works pleasing our Father as He did on earth. The Bible defines faith alone without works, as doing nothing and so saves nothing.

You keep sticking with James. Your ignoring the rest of the word which says we are justified (saved) by grace through faith.

You need to find context with James to answer the apparent contradiction where there is non.

True. Any faith without works is dead faith, and can save no man.

Yes. But God does not need to see our works. He knows if our faith is real. He knows everythign we will ever do

Works justify us before men, Not God

It's the faith of hearers only. (James 1) It's knowledge-only faith, that all people have by hearing the gospel alone.

It's not the saving faith of Jesus in the heart, that believes unto righteousness and is justified by doing of His word.

Yes. they believe, they have no faith, which is why they have NO works.

but their work does not save them.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Either correct this teaching of God's words in Romans 4, or acknowledge it does not believe His words in James 2. Also acknowledge it claims the apostle Paul does not agree with the Apostle James and vica versa.

Contexct is different.

Paul is fighting those who claim we must be saved by faith and works.

James is fighting those who think just because they say they believe in Jesus and said some silly prayer that they are saved and can live however they want.

Romans 4 is about justification before God

James is about justification before men.

the way you and I know Abraham had saving faith is we can not only see his many failures. but we see his many works..

To avoid this teaching of contradiction in the Bible, we must first stop inserting the doctrine of having saving faith without works.

If any teaching of the above doctrine were quoted alongside James 2:21, then perhaps it would at least give them pause to reconsider what they are teaching about the Bible

The apparent contradiction is easily set aside, when the Bible teaching of dead faith without works is believed.

Since God cannot possibly mean any and all works are apart from His justification, since He defines His justification by works, then the works that we are not justified by, must be works without faith. The works of our own righteousness. Which includes all past works we have done before believing and obeying God by Jesus Christ.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Now the Scripture agree and support one another, by rightly dividing between unjustified works without faith, and justified works of faith.

again your stuck on one passage..

Read the rest. it is not confusing as you are putting it out to be, it is quite simple..

 

[Ghada]

God doesn't need to see your works to know if you have faith, that's for people.

These are words of man's wisdom only. I see nothing in the Bible that says God does not 'need to see' our works. ANd I see in the Bible that He acknowledges any faith at all without works.

This is the kind of modern liberal teaching, that says God sees our hearts are good, even though we are doing bad things.

The Bible teaches God does need to see our works, to know our faith is not alone and dead. Otherwise, He would not justify us by works, as He did Abraham.

Now, the works that God sees, and man does not see, are the works we do by the Spirit to cleanse our hearts of lust, and to reject the tempting sinful thoughts of the devil from our minds. That is the spiritual warfare of resisting the devil, that we must straightway fight upon confessing the Lord Jesus with our mouth. The devil comes immediately to attack our faith from within.

Jesus calls them the first works we must always being doing, so as not to become outwardly righteous Pharisees only. (Rev 2)

James 2:18 KJV
18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

God justifies us when we believe Him. We are justified before men when we are different because of it.

God is does not say anything in James 2 about justification by men. The Bible dose not say a man is justified with men by works.

James 2 is specifically speaking of being saved and justified. It's the salvation and justification of God that is being taught. It was God, not man, that justified Abraham by works. And so God called Abraham His friend.

We can have honor and favor with men, but no man justifies another in sight of God. There is no Bible teaching of two different justifications, one by God and another by man.

And so we see how trying to teach something other than the Bible, always leads to more and more attempts to teach other things not in the Bible.

Inserting man's teaching of a saving faith without works, corrupts all Bible verse speaking of salvation and justification of God.

 

[marks]

These are words of man's wisdom only.

No, this is reading the passage James, and paying attention to what he is saying.

Inserting man's teaching of a saving faith without works,

Changing my words to impugn them isn't honest. Would you like to have an honest discussion?

God doesn't need to see your works to know if you have faith, that's for people.

James 2:18 KJV
18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

God justifies us when we believe Him. We are justified before men when we are different because of it.

Much love!

Where did I speak of a saving faith that doesn't have works?

But our works don't justify us concerning God, God justifies us, and He knows if He has. Our works show our faith to others.

Romans 4, as our brother shared, also speaks clearly to this:

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Much love!

 

[MatthewG]

People dont realize that what you do in sacrfice to Yahava is seen.

Your justified by faith.

But faith is just the stepping stone.

Faith in knowing and beliving who Jesus Christ is brings forth newness of life.

This is not legalism work of you must do this or you must do that as people understand it.

These works are the works you let God do in and through you by the Spirit of Christ; and God is pleased for us to do good and to share with others. It pleases him, but faith is the first step in pleasing God as for without it its impossible to please him.


You will at the end of your life be judged by the works you let God do in and through you, and you recieve your spirtiual reward based on that measure.

Some peoples measure of faith is really close to God, some peoples measure of faith is really far away though they are justifed in beliving God rose Christ up, and based upon their knowledge of him.


There is the normal resurrection, and then there is a resurrection past the normal, and Paul justifed this stance by pressing forward though he said he had yet to acheieve it.

Its not legalism. Its allowing God to work in and through you life being used by him, if you miss the point then you may still be blind to even knowing this information.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Teaching faith without works, as the only Bible means of salvation and justification, is found to be inconsistent when teaching about faith and works.

Actually, it is not inconsistent, when preaching "Today's Gospel Of The Grace Of God,":

1) Grace through faith IS for God's Eternal Salvation, without ( apart from All ) works:

"For By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is​

The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)​

2) It is Consistent then, when "works are taught to be for rewards" when we "depart To Glory!"

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which​

God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10)​

+

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall​

receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers​

together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.​

According to The Grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder,​

I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take​

heed how he buildeth Thereupon.​

For other foundation can no man lay than That is laid, Which is Jesus Christ.​

Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood,​

hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The [ Judgment ] Day​

shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every​

man's work of what sort it is.​

​

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.​

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved;​

yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)​

Very Consistent Indeed!

Where the Inconsistent Confusion arises is when the following are homogenized ( or 'Mixed Up'):

"faith PLUS works" found in God's Context Of prophecy / covenants / law for Israel!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That Differ" (online)

"Grace Through faith for Salvation / works for rewards" found In God's Other Context of
"The Revelation Of The Mystery" for us, Today, in The One Body Of Christ!

More about that is here:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

Amen.

 

[Ghada]

3. Here we have the word works added.. which not only contradicts the 1st example.. justified freely. but contradicts pauls words.

Only if you insert a nonbiblical teaching that faith without works does save.

If we believe both James and Paul write for God, then we know neither James nor Paul is speaking of any and all works. James includes works of faith, and Paul excludes works without faith.

so once again, we are required to solve the appearant contradiction between James and paul.. and you can not leave pauls words out of your examples.

I gave the explanation by clarifying Romans 4 with Titus 3, which you do not address at all, and so it stands.

No where??

have you read romans 4?

4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was [b]accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.


5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin

Nowhere here does God say we are justified by faith alone, or by faith without works, or by faith apart from works.

God does say we are not saved by our own works of our own righteousness without the faith of Jesus. These are not the righteous works Paul and James are speaking of.

You keep sticking with James. Your ignoring the rest of the word which says we are justified (saved) by grace through faith.

I've given arguments to reconcile Paul and James. You ignore them.

You need to find context with James to answer the apparent contradiction where there is non.

The context of James is salvation and justification of Christ. Faith alone does neither. Faith with works of God's righteousness does both.

Yes. But God does not need to see our works.

These are words of man's wisdom. Nowhere does the Bible say God does not 'need to see' our works.

He knows if our faith is real

By seeing our works of faith. He says our faith is not real without them.

Teaching our faith is real without works, is saying we believe our faith is real, though God does not.

He knows everythign we will ever do

Foreknowledge of God is true. He has seen all good and evil we have done, and will ever do.

Works justify us before men, Not God

This teaches man to seek justification by man.

But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Abraham's works were justified by God.

Yes. they believe, they have no faith, which is why they have NO works.

Agreed then. It's not just people claiming faith, but believers whose faith is dead without works.

but their work does not save them.

Not past works of our own righteousness which we have done. Those works whether by nature or by law can save no man without faith in God.

Paul is fighting those who claim we must be saved by faith and works.

Paul is fighting against those who claim we can be saved by works without faith.

Paul is not fighting James who says faith alone can save no man, and we must be justified by works of faith.

James is fighting those who think just because they say they believe in Jesus and said some silly prayer that they are saved and can live however they want.

True. It's the doctrine of being saved by faith alone without works.

They are teaching that only believing we are saved is enough to save us.

Romans 4 is about justification before God

As is James 2

James is about justification before men.

Jesus calls that hypocrisy of doing works to be seen of men.

the way you and I know Abraham had saving faith is we can not only see his many failures. but we see his many works..

The way we know any man is justified with God, is when God says so, which is by works of faith.

again your stuck on one passage..

I am stuck on James not being disbelieved or changed, in order to teach a faith opposing His words.

Faith without works is dead, being alone, and can save no man. Man is justified by works, and not by faith alone.

 

[MatthewG]

What does works mean @Ghada, from what had been learned over the years of study the work is to Love in the agape sense, as you deny yourself and allow God to work in and through you, are you of the same conclusion? You could just changed works to Love. Thank you for your consideration.

 

[Ghada]

Where did I speak of a saving faith that doesn't have works? But our works don't justify us concerning God, God justifies us, and He knows if He has.

This is duplicity with James 2. You agree James is speaking of being saved by God, but not being justified by God.

Justification by works in James 2 is that of God with examples of Abraham and Rahab.

Our works show our faith to others.

This is teaching to do works to show to others. Jesus calls this the hypocrisy of doing works to be seen and justified by man, not God.

That's why we are commanded not to do works to be seen of men, but in secret that God may justify and reward us openly.

I don't do works to show to others, but to love God and man.

Romans 4, as our brother shared, also speaks clearly to this:

Romans 4:1-5 KJV
1) What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2) For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3) For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4) Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Much love!

Both Paul and James are speaking of justification with God. They do not contradict one another, and I show how. You're lack of response to it shows it's validity.

 

[Ghada]

Actually, it is not inconsistent, when preaching "Today's Gospel Of The Grace Of God,":

1) Grace through faith IS for God's Eternal Salvation, without ( apart from All ) works:

Your words only.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

"For By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is​

The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)​

Not of past works of our own righteousness, which we have done before faith in Christ. (Titus 3)

2) It is Consistent then, when "works are taught to be for rewards" when we "depart To Glory!"

And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

Salvation is not by reward. The eternal inheritance is by reward.

The reward of inheriting the kingdom of God in the resurrection of the dead, is by works done in survive to Christ.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which​

God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10)​

Created with good works. Faith alone without works is stillborn, that aborts being born again unto life.

+

​

Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood,​

hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The [ Judgment ] Day​

shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every​

man's work of what sort it is.​

​

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.​

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved;​

yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)​

These are works of ministry. Not works of righteousness or unrighteousness. Works of ministry are judged only for Christians. Doing good or evil are the works that every man is judged by God, without respect of persons and faiths and philosophies.

"faith PLUS works" found in God's Context Of prophecy / covenants / law for Israel!

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge...For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Works added to faith bears fruit unto life. Faith without works is dead, being alone.

 

[Ghada]

Actually, it is not inconsistent, when preaching "Today's Gospel Of The Grace Of God,":

1) Grace through faith IS for God's Eternal Salvation, without ( apart from All ) works:

"For By Grace are ye Saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is​

The Gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)​

2) It is Consistent then, when "works are taught to be for rewards" when we "depart To Glory!"

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which​

God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." (Ephesians 2:10)​

+

"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall​

receive his own reward according to his own labour. For we are labourers​

together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.​

According to The Grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder,​

I have laid The Foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take​

heed how he buildeth Thereupon.​

For other foundation can no man lay than That is laid, Which is Jesus Christ.​

Now if any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood,​

hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for The [ Judgment ] Day​

shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every​

man's work of what sort it is.​

​

If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.​

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved;​

yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:8-15)​

Very Consistent Indeed!

Where the Inconsistent Confusion arises is when the following are homogenized ( or 'Mixed Up'):

"faith PLUS works" found in God's Context Of prophecy / covenants / law for Israel!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From Things That Differ" (online)

"Grace Through faith for Salvation / works for rewards" found In God's Other Context of
"The Revelation Of The Mystery" for us, Today, in The One Body Of Christ!

More about that is here:

I have decided to follow Jesus?

Amen.

It's inconsistent to agree with being saved by grace, but not with being justified by works.

If by works does not mean by means of works, then by grace does not mean by means of grace.

 

[Ghada]

What does works mean @Ghada,

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

If you don't know what works means, ask a grade-school child.