Increasing depravity...a sign?

[Naomi25]

"But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs."
Matthew 24:7

"While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape."
1 Thessalonians 5:3

So, all that is happening now in the world will only increasingly get closer and closer together and more and more intense. I am overwhelmed with how many of my family (all us sibs are saved) friends and neighbors (especially my nieces and nephews) are not saved, they are in the world...say they "believe" but...we all know who else believes and trembles...Prayers for all of those we love should be continuous, we petition and, knowing it IS His will that none should perish, continue giving the prayer of thanksgiving to him as...He WILL do it.

As Charles Spurgeon once said:
“If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our dead bodies. And if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees, imploring them to stay. If Hell must be filled, let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let not one go unwarned and unprayed for.”

Oh, I had not heard that Spurgeon quote before, it's rather marvelous, isn't it? I often wish I could do...more, so much more, in this regard. But...I am somewhat socially retarded, and I do mean that in the proper use of the word. I struggle with social interactions and generally find it difficult to make small conversation even about banal things like the weather. How on earth does one push past extreme social anxiety in order to 'wrap our arms about their knees'? and talk about the most important thing ever? I wish I knew...

 

[Naomi25]

Both. Look like Australia is in the lead. Must be all those kangaroos.

Well, we are the only Country stupid enough to eat the animal on our coat of arms....that ought to tell us something right there....

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think you are absolutely spot on. I think that the current generation has not just been raised in comfort and plenty, they've also been taught from day one that they need to 'self love'. Ultimately, they grow up believing that they are WORTHY of every good thing coming to them. And when it doesn't, they get mad and look for someone else to blame...because it couldn't be their fault...they're awesome, right?
I honestly think that's why we are seeing a huge rise in things like shootings, abortions, broken marriages...you name it. Because as soon as something impinges on "me first" or "all my way" they look to blame someone else, dismissing any responsibility that they might have, so they can go on their merry way believing that they are number one and the best sort of person who deserves the very best life! Doesn't matter that they had to kill four babies, or shoot at several cheerleaders who turned them down, or ditch that husband who didn't earn enough to set her up just right.
In short...we have a whole generation of narcissists. Who, at present, also think it's okay to go on violent rampages. What could possibly go wrong??

Always good to have you around, sister.

I was reading this after posting something, and it dawned on me the contrast between the NT writer's viewpoint and what the Devil tries to sell people. I posted the following, adding the explanation below it:

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 And he that keeps His commandments dwells in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us. (1 John 3:18-24)

Now, he starts by saying we don't love in word, but by our actions, and that this is how we know if we are of the truth or not. If we are doing these things, i.e. walking in obedience, it is the means by which we shall assure our hearts (v.19). It is by keeping His commandments and doing those things that are pleasing in His sight that we receive answers to our prayers (v.22), and moreover have confidence before God that we will (v.21). And His command is not just that we believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, but that we love one another, which is the thrust of the entire passage from v.18 all the way through to v.24. This is how we will know if He actually abides in us, in fact.
__________________

The way the Devil tells people to view themselves is directly opposite. Obedience to God's word and God's commandments should NOT be how you view yourself. In fact, you should be proud of yourselves for breaking the commandments of God; for standing up for yourselves in defiance of what God has asked men to do. In fact, the more abominable your lifestyle is the more you deserve the best in life.

If that doesn't sound like a trap, I don't know what does.

 

[farouk]

Oh, I had not heard that Spurgeon quote before, it's rather marvelous, isn't it? I often wish I could do...more, so much more, in this regard. But...I am somewhat socially retarded, and I do mean that in the proper use of the word. I struggle with social interactions and generally find it difficult to make small conversation even about banal things like the weather. How on earth does one push past extreme social anxiety in order to 'wrap our arms about their knees'? and talk about the most important thing ever? I wish I knew...

@Naomi25 I do love Spureon's writings and - believe me - London's South Bank area where the Metropolitan Tabernacle where he preached lies was a pretty depraved area in the 19th century when he was active there...

 

[farouk]

Yeah, I also cannot stand TV. I do have one but, it just collects dust.
Do you have Pureflix in the UK? Many good Christian movies on there and they are all family friendly...won't find a curse word in any of them. They are like Netflix, but only wholesome movies. It's 12 bucks a month, like 9 pounds in your neck of the woods

@Nancy There are some good documentaries, series around. I do like historical series, Christian or not; some documentaries do give a sense of perspective lacking from the contemporary news networks. (I think Wolf Blitzer is from Buffalo, right? or am I thinking of someone else?) There is amazing artwork on some of the ink series; and some historical movies are worth seeing, I reckon; it all takes discernment, of course, doesn't it?

 

[Nancy]

Oh, I had not heard that Spurgeon quote before, it's rather marvelous, isn't it? I often wish I could do...more, so much more, in this regard. But...I am somewhat socially retarded, and I do mean that in the proper use of the word. I struggle with social interactions and generally find it difficult to make small conversation even about banal things like the weather. How on earth does one push past extreme social anxiety in order to 'wrap our arms about their knees'? and talk about the most important thing ever? I wish I knew...

Yes! I love that Spurgeon quote
Well then sister, you and I have another thing in common. I too have social anxiety. As a child, it was just passed off as shyness but...it grew with me and, makes it just about impossible to fellowship as well as broach such an important topic, like you say, "the most important thing ever". That is why I depend on the power of prayer for the most part. I ask for opportunities that He put's before me, to share the hope that is in me. He does, and there are probably times I did not see doors He might have opened.
God has brought me a very long way with the S/A, it is not as debilitating as it once was although, there are times I still avoid gatherings.
Prayers for you!

 

[farouk]

Yes! I love that Spurgeon quote
Well then sister, you and I have another thing in common. I too have social anxiety. As a child, it was just passed off as shyness but...it grew with me and, makes it just about impossible to fellowship as well as broach such an important topic, like you say, "the most important thing ever". That is why I depend on the power of prayer for the most part. I ask for opportunities that He put's before me, to share the hope that is in me. He does, and there are probably times I did not see doors He might have opened.
God has brought me a very long way with the S/A, it is not as debilitating as it once was although, there are times I still avoid gatherings.
Prayers for you!

@Nancy There is a bookful of Spurgeon quotes: very pithy!

 

[Nancy]

We Christians will KNOW! -- But the World WILL be caught by surprise, -- and a LOT of people think they're "Christians" but are actually of the World:

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.


So will the church be SURPRISED, or INFORMED? -- We must be the Voice crying in the wilderness ...
Bobby Jo

I'm thinking that a pretty large part of the church will be surprised, and it bottoms out with us...will we "inform" ourselves or remain ignorant?

 

[Nancy]

I'll say. I forget now who I was having the conversation with, but a few years ago I was chatting with someone here and we were talking about the 'birth pangs'. It was the year that America had those massive storms, one after another. Then there was that big earthquake in South America somewhere (can't quite remember which country), and I think things were looking increasingly grim with North Korea blasting off missiles all the time. Anyway, we were talking about how it looked like the birth pangs were coming faster, and were interested to see how, when that particular 'contraction' eased off, when the next would hit. Well....2020, it would seem. So that's what...2, 3 years in between? That's really not terribly far apart, in the scheme of things. I suppose, as Christians, we ride it out and watch to see if it ebbs again...or not. Each 'birth' is different, and who knows (but God!) how that last bit of labor will go. I just remember with my kids, you'd spend soooo long in pre-labor, not being able to 'push', but then suddenly, the doctors give you the 'go', and it all happens in a rush. So, I suppose we'll see, and as long as we're 'staying awake' like our Lord commanded, we'll be okay.

Yes, I do remember that year and no, not at all far apart. We as Christians must ride it out for sure! Expecting all the ebbs and flows, peaks and valleys of the world. Stay in the race and pray our faith stays strong. Yeah, we will be fine

 

[Bobby Jo]

I'm thinking that a pretty large part of the church will be surprised, and it bottoms out with us...will we "inform" ourselves or remain ignorant?

It's heartbreaking that so many people are reaching out to Jesus, but the HIRELINGS stand in the way:

1 Cor. 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation.​

... and because the church isn't EXERCISING and being STRENGTHENED, how many will deny Jesus as Peter did in the courtyard?
Bobby Jo

 

[Nancy]

It's heartbreaking that so many people are reaching out to Jesus, but the HIRELINGS stand in the way:

1 Cor. 14:26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation.​

... and because the church isn't EXERCISING and being STRENGTHENED, how many will deny Jesus as Peter did in the courtyard?
Bobby Jo

"... and because the church isn't EXERCISING and being STRENGTHENED, how many will deny Jesus as Peter did in the courtyard? "

Way too many. There really needs to be way more teachings on active faith, real, true faith! So many Christians still say things like "well, I guess all we can do is pray". That kind of bugs me because, shouldn't that be the first thing we do? The Church needs to be a faith builder! Praise reports should be the norm! God give us strength, amen!
nite

 

[quietthinker]

Well...not shocked. Saddened. Angered...in a biblical way. Surprised by the acceleration of the decent. It seems almost exponential.

Yes, it is exponential.....the J curve is rising rapidly.

 

[Naomi25]

@Naomi25 I always think it's the inward and spiritual and doctrinal things that Christians really ought to be concentrating on, rather than ... say... fussing about the designs of swimsuits on Bondi Beach, or whatever....

Well...mostly I agree, but I think there are times when, as Christians, we need to be careful in what we wear. The vast majority of swimwear is fine, but some of them are clearly designed with a "look at my bootie" in mind, and I'm not sure that's the sort of message we want to be putting out there.

 

[Naomi25]

That "like" comes with chagrin!

Tell me about it. Alarming times.

 

[Naomi25]

@Naomi25 When the generation that could remember WW2 passed on, those who were raised in relative ease and plenty lost a living perspective....

Believers have the Scriptures, but the world does not pay attention to them.

Is it more than that, however? Not just "does not pay attention to them", but thinks them foolish. I think we see a growing trend where people are not just ignoring scripture, but they rage against it. They want to prove it wrong! Prove it evil! Prove it ignorant and hateful! And how do they do that? By living in a manner that is the opposite to what the bible teaches and glorifying in it...and then trying to get all (including us) to approve and affirm their choices.

 

[farouk]

Well...mostly I agree, but I think there are times when, as Christians, we need to be careful in what we wear. The vast majority of swimwear is fine, but some of them are clearly designed with a "look at my bootie" in mind, and I'm not sure that's the sort of message we want to be putting out there.

@Naomi25 Oh, I understand what you mean, but it's easy just to slip back into running commentaries about girl's swimwear, and regarding such censorious discourse as 'spiritual', while simultaneously being very superficial about the body of Scriptural doctrine which constitutes 'the faith once delivered to the saints' (Jude).

 

[farouk]

Is it more than that, however? Not just "does not pay attention to them", but thinks them foolish. I think we see a growing trend where people are not just ignoring scripture, but they rage against it. They want to prove it wrong! Prove it evil! Prove it ignorant and hateful! And how do they do that? By living in a manner that is the opposite to what the bible teaches and glorifying in it...and then trying to get all (including us) to approve and affirm their choices.

@Naomi25 I guess it's the differing emphases of reformers Savonarola and Luther again. Luther said, "Others have attacked abuses, but I have attacked doctrine and overthrown the whole system". He also said: "I did nothing. The Word did it all."

 

[Naomi25]

Always good to have you around, sister.

I was reading this after posting something, and it dawned on me the contrast between the NT writer's viewpoint and what the Devil tries to sell people. I posted the following, adding the explanation below it:

18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 And he that keeps His commandments dwells in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us. (1 John 3:18-24)

Now, he starts by saying we don't love in word, but by our actions, and that this is how we know if we are of the truth or not. If we are doing these things, i.e. walking in obedience, it is the means by which we shall assure our hearts (v.19). It is by keeping His commandments and doing those things that are pleasing in His sight that we receive answers to our prayers (v.22), and moreover have confidence before God that we will (v.21). And His command is not just that we believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, but that we love one another, which is the thrust of the entire passage from v.18 all the way through to v.24. This is how we will know if He actually abides in us, in fact.
__________________

The way the Devil tells people to view themselves is directly opposite. Obedience to God's word and God's commandments should NOT be how you view yourself. In fact, you should be proud of yourselves for breaking the commandments of God; for standing up for yourselves in defiance of what God has asked men to do. In fact, the more abominable your lifestyle is the more you deserve the best in life.

If that doesn't sound like a trap, I don't know what does.

Absolutely! In fact, I just replied to farouk in #56 with this basic idea:
"I think we see a growing trend where people are not just ignoring scripture, but they rage against it. They want to prove it wrong! Prove it evil! Prove it ignorant and hateful! And how do they do that? By living in a manner that is the opposite to what the bible teaches and glorifying in it...and then trying to get all (including us) to approve and affirm their choices."

Like you suggest above, we do seem to be seeing that people who disregard God's word seem intent on openly opposing it in more grandiose ways. They're not content to simply ignore it, they must defy it! And they're not pleased to let Christians carry on in their own 'track'...no, they insist upon us glorifying in their way of living. I think they feel when we do they will have ultimate approval and we will have completely disproved our own faith. In other words, they see it as a win/win...no wonder they fight so hard for it.

 

[Naomi25]

Yes! I love that Spurgeon quote
Well then sister, you and I have another thing in common. I too have social anxiety. As a child, it was just passed off as shyness but...it grew with me and, makes it just about impossible to fellowship as well as broach such an important topic, like you say, "the most important thing ever". That is why I depend on the power of prayer for the most part. I ask for opportunities that He put's before me, to share the hope that is in me. He does, and there are probably times I did not see doors He might have opened.
God has brought me a very long way with the S/A, it is not as debilitating as it once was although, there are times I still avoid gatherings.
Prayers for you!

I will pray for you! I find s/a to be so very strange. Some days it totally incapacitates me, others it doesn't bother me at all. It's those wonderful days where I find I can just head to Church and chat without stress with people there, that I think "this is a foretaste of heaven!" That will be very nice!
I do find online better...I have time to weigh my thoughts, and people aren't staring at me. But I still stress a bit, I suppose...I don't like the traditional social media's...they are far too much "I'm standing on a stage speaking to all". Nope, not for me!

 

[Naomi25]

Yes, it is exponential.....the J curve is rising rapidly.

I think that might be a maths/graph reference...so I'm just going to nod wisely like I know what you're talking about and back away slowly.