Infant baptism biblical?

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amigo de christo

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Be water Baptized if you desire. Join a man made church if you desire.
Salvation is via Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Joining Christ’s Church, is without observation.
Joining Christ’s Church, is via Baptism of Holy Spirit, is without observation.
a simple man baptized me my friend . I was not in any church . Jesus said do so i did . The apostels did so we do .
Its very simple a walk indeed . You do realize how often i speak against many things within many churches .
No it was simple for me . IF JESUS said do my heart embraced it . But i cant take credit for that kind of love .
GOD was the one who drew me to Christ and even gave me that kind of heart that simply loved truth .
Its a beauty my friend .
 

Taken

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Thief was under old testament. He was not commanded to obey the new testament gospel of Jesus Christ.
All the Jews under the old law were commanded to be baptized in John's baptism,
Mark 1:4,
-John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
No one can claim with Bible verses that the thief was not or was baptized by John.
It is false claim to say the thief was not baptized. Just as it is a false claim to say he was.

Noah was not commanded to be baptized, before the law of Moses
Moses not commanded to be baptized, Old law
David not commanded to be baptized, Old law

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is what we must do.
Let's pay attention to what testament folks were in when using them as examples for how one is saved under Jesus' gospel today.

To say I don't have to be water baptized to be saved is saying,
I don't have to obey Gods commandments to be saved.
1John 1:4,
-He who says I know Jesus and does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
Okay. Scripture does Not say either man hanging on each side of Jesus, were or were not water Baptized.
...By the same token...
Do we Know the two men hanging on each side of Jesus were “thieves” ?
Scripture doesn’t say so.
Do we Know the two men hanging on each side of Jesus were “Jews” ?
Scripture doesn’t say so.

However Scripture does teach True Heartful Confession (of a man) of Belief in the Lord God, IS WHEN a man becomes Baptized with the Holy Spirit, called Converted.
Conversion is the act of an individual mans True Heartful Confession.
* The individual Receiving the Holy Spirit Baptism is the act of the Lord Gods Works, and occurs AFTER the individual’s True Willingness to lay down his Body unto Death, FOR his BELIEF IN the Lord God.
* Water baptism is a (timeframe) Scheduled Symbolic Ritual to satisfy the EYES of men, that they are witness to the individual mans spoken Word of Confession of Belief.

Yes...OT men yearly offered the slaughter of pure animals on the Temple (only in Jerusalem) altar, FOR “forgiveness” of “PAST” sins OF EVERY sin the individual “Hebrew/Tribesman/Jew” committed, according TO Mosaic Law.

Yes...Jews were taught, the Temple had become defiled, a market place for buying and selling of impure animals, allowed to be offered up to the Priests for slaughter as “the individual’s SIN OFFERING”, and FURTHER the Pharisee (Priests) were well aware of the FRAUD occurring in the “Temple court pseudo marketplace”.

The Lord God DOES NOT CHANGE...
The Lord Gods COVENANTS DO NOT CHANGE...
HOWEVER God HAS made NEW COVENANTS FOR “ANY” man, (Tribesman, Jew, Greek, Gentile)....
....to BE “FORGIVEN” BY God, of SIN Against God...”ONCE and FOREVER”.
....to BE “WITH the Lord God Almighty.... “ONCE and FOREVER”.
....AND ^^^ THAT IS:....By, Through, Of the Baptism of the Lord God and “HIS Holy Spirit”. PERIOD.

It matters not to me, IF other mens EYES are satisfied with my One on One Relationship I have willingly agreed to established WITH the Lord God, according to Gods Offering.
My relationship WITH the Lord God, IS established, IS permanent, regardless of my relationship WITH any other earthly human person.
 

Taken

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a simple man baptized me my friend . I was not in any church . Jesus said do so i did . The apostels did so we do .
Its very simple a walk indeed . You do realize how often i speak against many things within many churches .
No it was simple for me . IF JESUS said do my heart embraced it . But i cant take credit for that kind of love .
GOD was the one who drew me to Christ and even gave me that kind of heart that simply loved truth .
Its a beauty my friend .
Baptism in Water BY a man is one thing.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit BY the Lord God is another thing.

I find ONLY the “chosen” Apostles of Jesus, Being Baptized BY the Holy Spirit.
Water Baptism is symbolic.

Mary was told...the son born forth out of her womb...”SHALL BE CALLED”, the Son of God.

On the day John “Water Baptized” Jesus...”WAS the day a Voice from Heaven proclaimed.........”THIS DAY God had Begotten His Son”.... and thereafter, Jesus could, and did proclaim Himself, the Son of God”.

Luke 1:
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Heb 5:
[5] So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

John 10:
[36] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Human individuals BECOME a “son of God”, by, through, of the individual’s True Heartful confession of Belief AND RECEIPT of Gods SEED via the ACT of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Water Baptism is a symbolic ritual ... implying, indicting that individual has willingly given a true Heartful Confession of Belief AND received Gods Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We ARE WARNED about FALSE preachers.
The people at large are IGNORANT of the BIG SECRET....that “MANY” men standing in the pulpit preaching ... DO NOT THEMSELVES BELIEVE IN God.
Yes, they TALK ABOUT GOD...while cunningly planting a seed of DOUBT and DISTRACTION ...
such AS: Baptism IN water is HOW to receive Salvation;
such as Get rich with Jesus;
such as give money to the Church is works to KEEP your Salvation;
such as Believing every word without verification of what the Preacher says; such as Praying TO and IN the NAME of Dead people will guarantee God will receive your Prayers.
 
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Jim B

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You are the ONE JIM B. That said Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking not me. Now you're mad that I pointed out your error.

Once again, I never said that Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue-speaking. If I did then show me where.
 

Jim B

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You are the ONE JIM B. That said Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking not me. Now you're mad that I pointed out your error.
See the previous post just above ... I am not "mad" (which means crazy), and I didn't make the error that you claim. It would be helpful if you were truthful.
 

Titus

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See the previous post just above ... I am not "mad" (which means crazy), and I didn't make the error that you claim. It would be helpful if you were truthful.
I am not implying your crazy. Not at all.
 

amigo de christo

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Baptism in Water BY a man is one thing.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit BY the Lord God is another thing.

I find ONLY the “chosen” Apostles of Jesus, Being Baptized BY the Holy Spirit.
Water Baptism is symbolic.

Mary was told...the son born forth out of her womb...”SHALL BE CALLED”, the Son of God.

On the day John “Water Baptized” Jesus...”WAS the day a Voice from Heaven proclaimed.........”THIS DAY God had Begotten His Son”.... and thereafter, Jesus could, and did proclaim Himself, the Son of God”.

Luke 1:
[32] He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Heb 5:
[5] So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

John 10:
[36] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Human individuals BECOME a “son of God”, by, through, of the individual’s True Heartful confession of Belief AND RECEIPT of Gods SEED via the ACT of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Water Baptism is a symbolic ritual ... implying, indicting that individual has willingly given a true Heartful Confession of Belief AND received Gods Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

We ARE WARNED about FALSE preachers.
The people at large are IGNORANT of the BIG SECRET....that “MANY” men standing in the pulpit preaching ... DO NOT THEMSELVES BELIEVE IN God.
Yes, they TALK ABOUT GOD...while cunningly planting a seed of DOUBT and DISTRACTION ...
such AS: Baptism IN water is HOW to receive Salvation;
such as Get rich with Jesus;
such as give money to the Church is works to KEEP your Salvation;
such as Believing every word without verification of what the Preacher says; such as Praying TO and IN the NAME of Dead people will guarantee God will receive your Prayers.
I know . I was actually baptized by the HOLY GHOST before i was even water baptized .
Yeah . But GOD led me to be water baptized . I know there is a difference .
But still true lambs would get water baptized after coming to faith in Christ .
 

Jim B

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I am not implying your crazy. Not at all.
Again, I did not make the error that you claim I made, that Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking. Why can't you admit your mistake?
 

Titus

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Again, I did not make the error that you claim I made, that Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking. Why can't you admit your mistake?

Tell me did Cornelius get the gift of tongue speaking? Yes he sure did.
Did Cornelius get anything else from the Holy Spirit?
No, only one gift! That's why the Bible says,
Acts 11:17,
-if therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?

Jim B what gift did the apostles get AT THE BEGINNING? Right after they were Holy Spirit baptized?
Answer
Acts 2:4,
-And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES as the Spirit gave them utterance.
 

BreadOfLife

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Infant baptism is unscriptual.

Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the death, burial and ressurection re-enacted.

1Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel enacted.

Romans 6:1-4, Dead to sin, buried in water, ressurected to a new life,
-for do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death.
-Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Baptism in Jesus' name according to Jesus is His gospel,
Mark 16:15-16,
-And Jesus said to them, Go into all the world and preach the GOSPEL to every creature, he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Jesus made it clear that the conditions in His gospel are:
1) belief/faith
2) baptism

In Acts 2:38 we learn about Peter preaching to Jews the Messiah and how they were gulity of His murder.
Once the Jews believed that Jesus was in fact their Messiah they asked Peter what they should do about this terrifying fact that they are guilty for murdering God on a Roman cross.

Peter told the those Jews who now have faith in Jesus to,
Acts 2:37-38,
-Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What we need to learn from this regarding water baptism is the order of salvation.
First requirement of Jesus is to believe, Mark 16:15-16.
Second requirement of Peter preaching the gospel is repentance.
Third requirement of Peter preaching the gospel is baptism.

Therefore to be water baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27,
One must meet the qualifications of Faith repentance...

Never in Jesus' gospel will you find one being baptized that had no faith in Jesus.
To be baptized one had to have intellectual knowledge of Jesus and understanding of the gospel.

The question that must be asked is: Do babies meet these qualifications/conditions
If the answer is no, then to baptize a baby is to do so in a unscriptual manner.

Babies do not believe in Jesus for they are without understanding.
Therefore babies have no need of being baptized.

Babies cannot understand why they are being baptized for they are without understanding,
Deuteronomy 1:39,
-Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge of good and evil, they shall go in there; to them I give it and they shall possess it.

Note as far as the household argument.
Very simple to refute: not all households have babies or even children.
My household has no one under 45 years of age.

If Paul or Peter baptized my whole household they would be baptizing adults not babies or children.
Those who believe that Baptism is an “Adults Only” sacrament have not only perverted the Word of God – they have repudiated the very words of Christ Himself.
The idea that since adults were the one being preached to in the NT - so they are the ONLY beneficiaries of God’s grace – is ignorant and asinine.

The Bible says that faith comes from HEARING the Word of God. Does this mean that all DEAF people are going to Hell?
Jesus
said
Luke 18:16
But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God”.

Mark 36:37
He took a little child whom he placed among them. Taking the child in his arms, he said to them, “Whoever welcomes one of these little children IN MY NAME welcomes ME; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.”


And Paul reiterates the Jewish Tradition of raising faithful children in the COVENANT with God:
Eph. 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Baptized babies have entered the NEW Covenant through Baptism (Acts 2:39) – just as the OT babies entered the Old Covenant through Circumcision (Gen. 17:7).
 
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Jim B

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No mistake, you are too ignorant to know what you have said, sorry.
Tell me did Cornelius get the gift of tongue speaking? Yes he sure did.
Did Cornelius get anything else from the Holy Spirit?
No, only one gift! That's why the Bible says,
Acts 11:17,
-if therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?

Jim B what gift did the apostles get AT THE BEGINNING? Right after they were Holy Spirit baptized?
Answer
Acts 2:4,
-And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES as the Spirit gave them utterance.
I know exactly what I said. I never said that Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking. You are entirely wrong! And I have reported the personal insult. This discussion is over!
 

Taken

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I know . I was actually baptized by the HOLY GHOST before i was even water baptized .
Yeah . But GOD led me to be water baptized . I know there is a difference .
But still true lambs would get water baptized after coming to faith in Christ .

Thanks for sharing.
 

DJT_47

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Original sin

It’s critically important for us to recognize that original sin is not something that’s transmitted biologically or psychologically. Yet at the same time we can speak of original sin as being something hereditary. Pope Pius XI wrote that “Original sin is the hereditary but impersonal fault of Adam’s descendants.”

Even that word choice - fault – might lead you to believe that original sin is something that renders us guilty. But it isn’t. Think of fault here in the sense of the San Andreas Fault, the fracture in the earth’s crust that renders California vulnerable to devastating earthquakes. It isn’t my fault, but it’s like a fault line that runs my soul and inclines me to be separate from God.

Original sin is the hereditary but impersonal fault of Adam’s descendants: One man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men…By one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, who have sinned in him. (Rom 5:18-19)

The mystery, of course, is how we sinned in Adam. We sinned in Adam, in a sense, because there is a mystical solidarity we share with him, based upon two realities:
  • biologically, we’re his descendants; and
  • theologically, he’s our covenant head.
As our father, he is our representative in making the covenant with God. Since he broke the covenant, we, his progeny, inherit the consequences. Consider an analogy from human relations: If I mismanaged my business affairs and ended by declaring bankruptcy before passing my estate to my sons and daughter, my creditors could pursue my children, now rendered debtors through our family bond.

In effect, original sin means the loss of sanctifying grace and, therefore, the loss of eternal life. The soul is immortal, and people in hell will live everlastingly, though miserably. Eternal life is more than everlasting. It is God’s life, divine life. God alone is eternal because He utterly transcends time. So when we speak of eternal life, we are talking about sharing in the very being and communion of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And that is what humanity lost through original sin.

Original sin is hereditary but impersonal. It is contracted, not committed; and we contract original sin without consent. That is why God can remove original sin without personal consent, as He does with newborn babies on their baptismal day.

The same thing can be said for actual sin. Actual sin can only be committed through informed consent. And so it can only be removed through informed consent. That’s why we need confession.
New born infants are without sin. Infants can neither commit sin, which is a transgression, nor can they believe which is a prerequisite to baptism, nor can they confess, also a prerequisite to baptism, and further cannot nor have they a need to repent. No one can superimpose themselves in place of a child and do these things on their behalf. It's totally unscriptural.
 
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Titus

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I know exactly what I said. I never said that Cornelius was saved by a miraculous gift of tongue speaking. You are entirely wrong! And I have reported the personal insult. This discussion is over!
I am sorry if I offended you. But you do not realize you are saying that Cornelius was saved by Holy Spirit tongue speaking. Love you Jim B
 

Titus

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Those who believe that Baptism is an “Adults Only” sacrament have not only perverted the Word of God – they have repudiated the very words of Christ Himself.
The idea that since adults were the one being preached to in the NT - so they are the ONLY beneficiaries of God’s grace – is ignorant and asinine.

The Bible says that faith comes from HEARING the Word of God. Does this mean that all DEAF people are going to Hell?
Jesus
said
Luke 18:16
But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God”.

Mark 36:37

He took a little child whom he placed among them. Taking the child in his arms, he said to them, “Whoever welcomes one of these little children IN MY NAME welcomes ME; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.”

And Paul reiterates the Jewish Tradition of raising faithful children in the COVENANT with God:
Eph. 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Baptized babies have entered the NEW Covenant through Baptism (Acts 2:39) – just as the OT babies entered the Old Covenant through Circumcision (Gen. 17:7).
Both John's baptism(old covenant) and Jesus' baptism(new covenant) was for the same purpose.

Mark 1:4,
-John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:38
-Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins

Both baptism same purpose.
To be consistent with your doctrine BreadofLife it must be true that babies were baptized in John's baptism also.

Matthew 3:2;6
-and saying repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand
-and were baptized by him confessing their sins.
BreadofLife, How many babies repent and confess their sins?
btw, babies are sinless, therefore they do not qualify for repentance, confession, baptism.
 

Illuminator

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New born infants are without sin. Infants can neither commit sin, which is a transgression, nor can they believe which is a prerequisite to baptism, nor can they confess, also a prerequisite to baptism, and further cannot nor have they a need to repent. No one can superimpose themselves in place of a child and do these things on their behalf. It's totally unscriptural.
Psalm 51:5 – I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.
 

Illuminator

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New born infants are without sin.
They are without committed sin. Original sin is not a committed sin. This is what you refuse to understand.
Infants can neither commit sin, which is a transgression, nor can they believe which is a prerequisite to baptism, nor can they confess, also a prerequisite to baptism, and further cannot nor have they a need to repent. No one can superimpose themselves in place of a child and do these things on their behalf. It's totally unscriptural.

Mark 16:16 – Jesus said “He who believes AND is baptized will be saved.” Jesus says believing is not enough. Baptism is also required. This is because baptism is salvific, not just symbolic. The Greek text also does not mandate any specific order for belief and baptism, so the verse proves nothing about a “believer’s baptism.”

Luke 18:15 – Jesus says, “Let the children come to me.” The people brought infants to Jesus that he might touch them. This demonstrates that the receipt of grace is not dependent upon the age of reason.

Acts 16:30-33 – it was only the adults who were candidates for baptism that had to profess a belief in Jesus. This is consistent with the Church’s practice of instructing catechumens before baptism. But this verse does not support a “believer’s baptism” requirement for everyone. See Acts 16:15,33. The earlier one comes to baptism, the better. For those who come to baptism as adults, the Church has always required them to profess their belief in Christ. For babies who come to baptism, the Church has always required the parents to profess the belief in Christ on behalf of the baby. But there is nothing in the Scriptures about a requirement for ALL baptism candidates to profess their own belief in Christ (because the Church has baptized babies for 2,000 years).

Gen. 17:12, Lev. 12:3 – these texts show the circumcision of eight-day old babies as the way of entering into the Old Covenant.
Col 2:11-12 – however, baptism is the new “circumcision” for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults. God did not make His new Covenant narrower than the old Covenant. To the contrary, He made it wider, for both Jews and Gentiles, infants and adults.

It must first be pointed out that the term ‘original sin’ is, “misleading and imprecise”. The Catechism of the Catholic Church clarifies, “original sin is called ‘sin’ only in an analogical sense: it is a sin ‘contracted’ and not ‘committed’ – a state and not an act” (CCC 404).

Of course, the original sin of Adam and Eve is an actual committed sin – the sin of disobedience and pride. However, when we speak of original sin in regard to the rest of humanity, it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed”. Adam and Eve committed the original sin and so we inherit its consequences.

This distinction is important because to truly understand how original sin is inherited, it must be clear that what is transmitted to the human race through Adam and Eve is not an actual sin or personal sin, but rather, a lack of grace.

The human race has “contracted” original sin insofar as all human beings are born out of the original harmony that Adam and Eve once had with God. To be as precise and concise as possible – human beings are not born with a sin, they are born without God’s grace.

Denial of orginal sin is unscriptural because the denial depends entirely on a misunderstanding of what original sin is.
 
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Titus

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salm 51:5 – I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me
David was brought forth in iniquity. As everyone is. All are born into a sinful world.
-and in sin(whose sin?) did my mother conceive me. Not David's sin, his mother's sin.
David had no sin until he commited his own sin by transgression of Gods law.
 

DJT_47

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We , After BELIEVING , should be water baptized . Any christain should know
its not the event itself that saved you , if so why did phillip just not baptize that man .
yet we should never not do it , AFTER believing . The early church did it . we should too .
But again i want to remind us about phillip and the eunach .
When the eunach saw water and said what does HINDER ME , PREVENT ME , from being baptized ,
notice what phillip said . IF , IF YE BELIEVE , BELIEVE , BELIEVE with your heart YE MAY BE .
Water baptism follows FAITH . Aka its useless if one has NOT FAITH IN CHRIST . cause the water itself dont save you
IF it did , how come phillip didnt just THROW THE MAN into the water and say YE SAVED NOW .
NO . ONE MUST BELIEVE in order to be saved and THEN be baptized .
It's really not that we should be baptized after believing, but rather absolutely must be if we want to be saved. Should implies that it's not imperative but more like it's simply good or right or that it's optional; it's not.
 
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