Infant Baptism is not given in scripture.

[Dash RipRock]

I sin everyday. By word or thought. Why? Because im a sinner. I dont need a priest to tell me to say a hail Mary to be forgiven. I go directly to God the Father. You see, Jesus fixed it for me.Praise his name.

Sinners don't go to Heaven, that's too bad for you!

You should get born again and set free from living in sin and engaging in sinful behavior by being led by the Holy Spirit instead of the devil.

 

[Searcher]

Sinners don't go to Heaven, that's too bad for you!

You should get born again and set free from living in sin and engaging in sinful behavior by being led by the Holy Spirit instead of the devil.

oh please. are you without sin? Odd. Last guy I heard about that was without sin was crucified around 2000 years ago.

 

[Dash RipRock]

oh please. are you without sin? Odd. Last guy I heard about that was without sin was crucified around 2000 years ago.

Big difference between being a sinner and falling short of God's absolute perfection.

The way you talk it sounds like you are involved with things you know are sin and you choose to do them anyway such as watching porn, getting drunk, doing drugs, lying and deceiving, molesting children, being gay, raping animals, beating up little old ladies, spittin on the side walk and the list goes on and one.

I sure hope you aren't involved in stuff like this or enraging in similar sinful behavior. Are you?

1 Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

2 Peter 2:14,15 - Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Romans 6:1,2 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Why don't you agree with God's Word and stop being a sinner?

Why not start obeying what these verses say?

Ephesians 4:24 - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14 - But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 6:4-6 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

 

[Searcher]

Big difference between being a sinner and falling short of God's absolute perfection.

The way you talk it sounds like you are involved with things you know are sin and you choose to do them anyway such as watching porn, getting drunk, doing drugs, lying and deceiving, molesting children, being gay, raping animals, beating up little old ladies, spittin on the side walk and the list goes on and one.

I sure hope you aren't involved in stuff like this or enraging in similar sinful behavior. Are you?

1 Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

2 Peter 2:14,15 - Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Romans 6:1,2 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Why don't you agree with God's Word and stop being a sinner?

Why not start obeying what these verses say?

Ephesians 4:24 - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14 - But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 6:4-6 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

You are an arrogant troll. I have a vision. You wont be here long.

 

[DJT_47]

Ummmm.....They, the students of the Apostles, weren't "the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the friend of one of the apostles".......Such a silly statement. I can see you are not serious.

When you say that you "choose to follow the scriptures" what you are really saying is that you have your interpretation of Scripture 2,000 years after they were written. Your write down and preach YOUR interpretation and feel in your tummy that your interpretation is the truth OR you follow the teachings of some other Protestant man.

I and The Church choose the writings of the students of the Apostles aka Apostolic Fathers over your 2,000 year after the fact writings/teachings.

But I am wasting my time because you are not serious about your own Christian history and in your vanity, you will be lost..........

Ummmm.....They, the students of the Apostles, weren't "the cousin of the uncle of the brother of the friend of one of the apostles".......Such a silly statement. I can see you are not serious.

When you say that you "choose to follow the scriptures" what you are really saying is that you have your interpretation of Scripture 2,000 years after they were written. Your write down and preach YOUR interpretation and feel in your tummy that your interpretation is the truth OR you follow the teachings of some other Protestant man.

I and The Church choose the writings of the students of the Apostles aka Apostolic Fathers over your 2,000 year after the fact writings/teachings.

But I am wasting my time because you are not serious about your own Christian history and in your vanity, you will be lost..........

If they were truly students of the apostles, then they wouldn't have changed what the apostles taught, which was done. The apostles were students of Christ: did they change in any way what the Lord taught them?

 

[David Lamb]

Sinners don't go to Heaven, that's too bad for you!

You should get born again and set free from living in sin and engaging in sinful behavior by being led by the Holy Spirit instead of the devil.

Unsaved sinners don't go to heaven; saved sinners do. The apostle Paul continued to sin after he had become a Christian. He wrote:

“For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but [how] to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not [to do], that I practice.” (Ro 7:18-19 NKJV)

John wrote to Christians:

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” (1Jo 1:8 NKJV)

 

[David Lamb]

Big difference between being a sinner and falling short of God's absolute perfection.

The way you talk it sounds like you are involved with things you know are sin and you choose to do them anyway such as watching porn, getting drunk, doing drugs, lying and deceiving, molesting children, being gay, raping animals, beating up little old ladies, spittin on the side walk and the list goes on and one.

I sure hope you aren't involved in stuff like this or enraging in similar sinful behavior. Are you?

1 Corinthians 15:34 - Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

2 Peter 2:14,15 - Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Romans 6:1,2 - What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Why don't you agree with God's Word and stop being a sinner?

Why not start obeying what these verses say?

Ephesians 4:24 - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14 - But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Hebrews 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 6:4-6 - Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

You seem to be reading far more into searcher's posts than is there. Also, please tell us, what is the difference between sinning and falling short of God's absolute perfection? They are two ways of saying the same thing. You list certain things as sins: "watching porn, getting drunk, doing drugs, lying and deceiving, molesting children, being gay, raping animals, beating up little old ladies, spitting on the side walk." In the bible, sin is far more than such things. Jesus said we are to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. Every time we don't do that, it is sin. He said that to look on a woman and lust after her was to commit adultery in one's heart.

 

[Marymog]

If they were truly students of the apostles, then they wouldn't have changed what the apostles taught, which was done. The apostles were students of Christ: did they change in any way what the Lord taught them?

Lol....Ok sooooo what YOU and your men teach haven't "changed what the apostles taught" but the Apostolic Fathers, men who spoke to the Apostles, did change what the Apostles taught? Oh goodness.....

I can't take you serious anymore........

 

[Searcher]

Lol....Ok sooooo what YOU and your men teach haven't "changed what the apostles taught" but the Apostolic Fathers, men who spoke to the Apostles, did change what the Apostles taught? Oh goodness.....

I can't take you serious anymore........

See if you can find a book called Dark History Of The Popes and then tell us how they adhere to the apostles. How about the vatican 2 nonsense. Witch doctors, buddists hindus, muslims and more. Your pope kissing the khoran and using the church alter to set a pagan god on it, buddah I think it was. Its all on video look it up. We all worship the same god nonsense.

 

[DJT_47]

Lol....Ok sooooo what YOU and your men teach haven't "changed what the apostles taught" but the Apostolic Fathers, men who spoke to the Apostles, did change what the Apostles taught? Oh goodness.....

I can't take you serious anymore........

Good! Goodbye. Go read some hogwash written by one of your cherished Apostolic Fathers. (They ain't my Fathers)

 

[Marymog]

Good! Goodbye. Go read some hogwash written by one of your cherished Apostolic Fathers. (They ain't my Fathers)

Oh goodness....The men who spoke to the Apostles and wrote down what they learned from them is all hogwash. THEY were heretics! But any man's writings that YOU agree with, THOSE MEN are not heretics!

Even though the Apostolic Fathers could ask the Apostles follow-up questions and yours couldn't ask follow up questions.....YOUR MEN are right and the Fathers are wrong.

Got it

 

[Marymog]

See if you can find a book called Dark History Of The Popes and then tell us how they adhere to the apostles. How about the vatican 2 nonsense. Witch doctors, buddists hindus, muslims and more. Your pope kissing the khoran and using the church alter to set a pagan god on it, buddah I think it was. Its all on video look it up. We all worship the same god nonsense.

Hey Searcher,

Yes, there have been some bad men who were Popes that did not "adhere to the apostles" or adhere to Church teaching.

Did the actions (sins) of those bad Popes change or nullify the teachings of The Church?

Do the actions/sins of your Protestant church leaders nullify the teachings of the Protestant church you attend?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

If they were truly students of the apostles, then they wouldn't have changed what the apostles taught, which was done. The apostles were students of Christ: did they change in any way what the Lord taught them?

Hey DJT,

Give me some examples of the teachings from the Apostles that the Apostolic Fathers changed.

The Apostolic Fathers are Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp.

Maybe @Searcher can help you "search" (pun intended) for that evidence out since they "liked" your theory.

 

[Behold]

Hey DJT,

Give me some examples of the teachings from the Apostles that the Apostolic Fathers changed.

"Apostolic Fathers' is a MaryCult definition, only.

Whereas the Bible actually defines the Apostles, as the Apostles only found by NAME, in the Bible.
Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, Paul... ect......
None of those are "Marian Devotion" cult members........not one.

 

[Grailhunter]

Baptism in the Bible is by full immersion and it baptism knowing consent and moral responsibility, which a infant does not posses. One must know and understand what it entails in ones self as baptism is a public statement to commit one's life to Jesus and it demonstrates that the person has repented of sin and wishes to live a life in Christ.

Since Jesus is the way the truth and the life, obviously you would look at His example and His revealed will, especially on being baptized. The scriptures are our guide, and through them we can learn to follow in the footsteps of Jesus and we begin at his commission to preach the gospel to the world.
"...Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved; but he that believeth not will be condemned." Mark 16:15-16

Notice what it says, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.". It is not enough to believe the gospel and stand on the sidelines. One must accept it and live it as many will find at the end.

"Not everyone who saith unto Me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name, cast out demons in Your name, and in Thy name done many wonders?' And then I will profess unto them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, ye that work iniquity!'" Matthew 7:21-23

There will be many who profess faith in Jesus, they preach His name, they even profess to have done great works in the name of Jesus, but they practice iniquity. The word iniquity that is used here is translated from the Greek "anomia", which means lawlessness or transgressing the law, and transgression of the law is the only definition of sin in the Scripture.

"Whosoever commiteth sin transgresseth also the law, for sin is the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4

Obedience is the fruit of a relationship with God. It is not enough to to have a just a intellectual or factual knowledge of the law or to keep it because we know it is right (look under the definition of legalism). The law must be kept from the heart, it must become part of the mind or character, and with the Holy Spirit this change is possible to enable us to reflect the love of Christ to a world in need. The believer must be brought into harmony with God's law, he must be a doer of what Christ declares.

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken unto a wise man which built his house upon a rock..." Matthew 7:24

The history of it….
Infant baptism and force baptism.
The Catholic Church at the time believed they were the one true faith and it controlled all salvation.
Infant baptism and forced baptism was an effort to increase the number of Christians.

Now a days infant baptism is more of a christening. Of which I agree.

 

[DJT_47]

Hey DJT,

Give me some examples of the teachings from the Apostles that the Apostolic Fathers changed.

The Apostolic Fathers are Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch and Polycarp.

Maybe @Searcher can help you "search" (pun intended) for that evidence out since they "liked" your theory.

Baptism. Baptism is transliterated from the Greek, baptizo, not translated, and means to dip, plunge, immerse.

It is not interchangeable with pour or sprinkle which are two distinctly different words: chynon=sprinkle, paspalízo=pouring

You cannot pour or sprinkle water on a person and say they are baptized: they are not.

 

[Seeding Loving]

I understand that Roman Catholics do love and cherish their newborn babies so very much, I can hardly imagine the love that a Catholic mother feels for her little newborn precious beautiful baby.

It almost brings me to tears to see and imagine a Catholic mother holding her little beautiful baby in her arms and making a decision to get the little feller baptized because she just loves the little feller so much and wants the very best for them.


Yet we see that a baby or a child has no understanding of repentance - AND - the Bible never commands to baptize the un - repentant.

Would this be like going around the corner and dragging a sleeping man to the priest and baptizing him while He is sleeping and he never knows anything about it and he then heads back down the road of sin,

never knowing the gospel

nor that He is sinning
and the Catholics everywhere are satisfied that the sleeping man was baptized and they chase the man down saying gaga goo goo - peek a boo, a million times, over and over and over.

The man would not know what they were saying or what it meant.

Sometimes even when people have the most sincere and dedicated of hearts with the best intentions, it can be frustrating trying to explain things about the Bible when they are taught by their spiritual fathers - to lower the level of understanding and the scriptures to such a state.

 

[Marymog]

Baptism. Baptism is transliterated from the Greek, baptizo, not translated, and means to dip, plunge, immerse.

It is not interchangeable with pour or sprinkle which are two distinctly different words: chynon=sprinkle, paspalízo=pouring

You cannot pour or sprinkle water on a person and say they are baptized: they are not.

Immersion is not the only meaning of baptizo. Sometimes it just means washing up (Luke 11:38, Mark 7:3) so baptizo can mean cleansing or ritual washing as well as immersion.

But back to our discussion about the Apostolic Fathers. None of the Apostolic Fathers (Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp) wrote about pouring or sprinkling HOWEVER The Didache did authorize pouring/sprinkling as a method if immersion wasn't available. The Didache was written BEFORE some NT letters and the Apostolic fathers. It was considered "scripture" by the early church.

Scripture does NOT say that pouring or sprinkling is an invalid form of baptism. Where do you get this teaching that pouring/sprinkling is an invalid form of Baptism since Scripture does not say it's invalid?

You alleged the Apostolic Fathers changed what the Apostles taught. Do you have any examples?

Curious Mary

PS maybe @David Lamb can help you out since they liked your inaccurate post

 

[Marymog]

I understand that Roman Catholics do love and cherish their newborn babies so very much, I can hardly imagine the love that a Catholic mother feels for her little newborn precious beautiful baby.

It almost brings me to tears to see and imagine a Catholic mother holding her little beautiful baby in her arms and making a decision to get the little feller baptized because she just loves the little feller so much and wants the very best for them.


Yet we see that a baby or a child has no understanding of repentance - AND - the Bible never commands to baptize the un - repentant.

Would this be like going around the corner and dragging a sleeping man to the priest and baptizing him while He is sleeping and he never knows anything about it and he then heads back down the road of sin,

never knowing the gospel

nor that He is sinning
and the Catholics everywhere are satisfied that the sleeping man was baptized and they chase the man down saying gaga goo goo - peek a boo, a million times, over and over and over.

The man would not know what they were saying or what it meant.

Sometimes even when people have the most sincere and dedicated of hearts with the best intentions, it can be frustrating trying to explain things about the Bible when they are taught by their spiritual fathers - to lower the level of understanding and the scriptures to such a state.

Hey Seeding Loving,

I guess if you ignore your own Christian history (tradition) and what Scripture implies on baptism your quip about baptizing a sleeping man would make sense. But it doesn't make sense. And I am not sure why you mention "Catholics" only when some of your Protestant brothers and sisters baptize infants also....but I digress.

First off, as Scripture says, parents are responsible for bringing up their children (infants) into the Christian faith. The adult "sleeping man" is not an infant and no longer under the responsibility of his parents therefore your argument is based on a false premise.

Second off, Scripture says they were bringing children/infants to Jesus and, as we know, Jesus commanded that ALL be baptized. Us Catholics, and some Protestants, agree with Jesus: Baptize ALL in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You disagree with Jesus.

Third off, Scripture says that entire families/households were being baptized. We believe that infants are part of "entire families". You and your ilk don't. What you believe is not logical.

Fourth off, if you read your own Christian history you would see that infant baptism was being conducted since the earliest times of Christianity. The FACT is we have documentation of a disagreement on how soon an infant should be baptized. The argument was before or after the 8th day of birth. So, your own Christian history doesn't support your theory.

Fifth off, Scripture says hold fast to the traditions you were taught by letter or word of mouth. You and your ilk ignore the previously mentioned "Fourth off" argument I presented. The tradition of baptism for you and your ilk starts with the Protestant reformers 500 years ago when they argued against the 2,000 teaching/tradition of baptizing infants. As for me and my ilk we adhere to the 2,000-year tradition/teaching. WE are more like NT Christians than you and your ilk.

Sixth off, Paul equates baptism and circumcision. But you knew that already.

I sincerely hope those 6 facts opens your eyes for you to see that your Protestant men have misled you on Scripture, Christian tradition and logic when it comes to infant baptism.

Sincerely, Mary

 

[Marymog]

The history of it….
Infant baptism and force baptism.
The Catholic Church at the time believed they were the one true faith and it controlled all salvation.
Infant baptism and forced baptism was an effort to increase the number of Christians.

Now a days infant baptism is more of a christening. Of which I agree.

Grail hunter,

Post #199 debunks your version, or the version your men taught you, of our Christian history.

Christening is a new concept and was not practiced among NT Christians.