Instruction in righteousness

[Episkopos]

2 Tim, 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Instruction in righteousness? Those who believe they can grow into holiness need to look closely here. We grow in righteousness not holiness.

Holiness is either holy or it is impure...unholy. A little leaven leavens the whole batch. How much dung in our water would be considered safe to drink? When is the water we drink no longer considered as potable?

The bible explains itself. But people will read their own understanding into it rather than read what it says. The waters are muddied by the flesh and carnal perceptions.

How many claim to be holy while they sin?

So holiness is digital..a yes or no...a holy or not holy state.

But righteousness is on a sliding scale. Righteousness is analog. There is a greater and lesser righteousness. God's righteousness is supreme. In Christ there is no sin. His righteousness is in holiness. It is pure without spot or wrinkle of sin. Now, many false doctrines have come about to mock God and His holiness. And this, by justifying sinful flesh. Many claim a sinful holiness...which is as far away from the truth as can be.

Jesus says...unless your righteousness exceeds... which alludes to a sliding scale. Why didn't Jesus say...unless your holiness exceeds...????

We never have our own holiness to improve on. God is holy ...we are not...unless we are covered by His holiness (by grace).

 

[Episkopos]

Here is something that few will understand. God builds His righteousness on OUR righteousness. An uncovered righteousness is filthy. But not one that is covered by God's righteousness.

How is our righteousness required to enter into Christ? Why do we need to repent to enter into Christ? Doesn't Christ merely cover up our sins? Repentance is an act of righteousness. The publican beat his chest in a heartfelt repentance and was seen by God as righteous because of it. God attributed (imputed) his repentance as coming from righteousness. We are not told if the publican was anointed with God's righteousness...surely not, as this took place before the availability of NT grace.

Why is there so little repentance in todays' church? Why is there so much self-righteousness and almost no righteousness (let alone an example of the God's covering righteousness). People have been taught that God sees sin as holy. So then people hold the truth but IN unrighteousness. Few have any understanding of the nature of either holiness or righteousness.

Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

 

[Episkopos]

David was a man who understood righteousness. Before the cross of Christ was available to cut away sinful flesh...there was being weaned from the flesh.

Ps. 131:2 Surely I have behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother: my soul is even as a weaned child.

The Hebrew says it better...more like. As a child is weaned of his mother so I am weaned of my soul.

Weaned of ones own soul? Yes, ceasing to have confidence in the flesh.

David says...

Ps. 18:20 “The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.”

Imagine the look on the faces of modern religionists to that kind of statement. God in His righteousness rewards our growth in righteousness. Otherwise there can be no reward given from God. No one gets a reward for having received a gift. Gifts are by merit.

 

[Episkopos]

The carnal mind can be short-circuited by indoctrination. Once the mind is so shorted out NO KNOWLEDGE can enter in.

What is the efficiency of the devil being able to short circuit a carnal mind?

Just rattle off a verse (that is not understood in context) like...

Is. 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

We are unclean, unholy in our NATURAL state. Only God is holy. Compared to God's righteousness, ours is filthy. Compared to God's strength, we are weak. Our righteousness is insufficient...without God's covering righteousness. But God doesn't cover up our sin. No, we must be crucified first ...the outer sinful nature cut away...THEN we can be covered so that our righteousness is covered with His. His life covers our life...but is that an intact carnal life that is to be covered? No, we are to give up our life to become His disciple. It is no longer I (EGO), ...but Christ...and yet we live...so that the inner man is covered by His life.

Those who have experience being spiritual in Christ will attest to this. Those who have not experienced the resurrection walk will not understand this.

 

[Episkopos]

Personal righteousness is like the light of stars....far away and giving almost no light at all. Yet they are there. In the daytime the light of the stars is still there...but the light of the sun is so bright that the stars can no longer be seen. In the same way God's righteousness overcomes our own.

Paul wasn't against righteousness...no, he wanted to let the light of Christ shine through him. When he said..."not having a righteousness of my own" ....which is by the law....that doesn't mean Paul was not also doing what was right in his own power when necessary. Paul was not after a reputation as being righteous by the law among the Jews. He counted that status as dung that he might win Christ.

 

[GTW27]

Personal righteousness(self) is unrighteousness. When we attack people and put people down, that comes from self righteousness(unrighteousness). It comes from the darkness and not The Light. When a person is truly born again(from above) they have received both The Father and The Son(Jesus) in The Form of The Holy Spirit. It was The Holy Spirit that was sent to enter and make His abode within the believer just like Jesus promised. And this is so. It is The Lord that enters into us. "Behold I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will
come into him and eat with him, and he with Me." The Holy Spirit is Holy and Righteous. For He alone is Holy and Righteous and yet before the foundation of the world He determined to be with us, and in us, to do what we can not. So yes there is Holiness and Righteousness within those who believe. The Lord is with me Episkopos even though I am not worthy. I have sat back and watched what you have said to others in here and how you have put them down and attacked them, even my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. You are like a man standing on a street corner saying" come to me I have what you need, I have the answers. You do not have the answers, but only I do, for I have the higher calling" But when I look at this man I see his entire body is covered in tatoos. And moving closer I see begin to see the words of the tatoos. The words are all the words you used to attack, and accuse, and put down others. So yeh, Episkopos, these words,(idle) all of them, are still before The Lord. He that is truly born from above can not do and say the things you have done for a Good tree does not bare bad fruit. Repent, buy yourself some Oil and let The Lord show you His ways even to love one another as Christ first loved us. The words on these boards, perhaps, can not be erased, but tatoos can, but will they?

 

[Episkopos]

Personal righteousness(self) is unrighteousness.

This is not right....the entire premise of your post revolves around correcting me. And that is what I'm trying to help others with. Calling righteousness unrighteousness and unrighteous righteousness is severely reprimanded in the bible...as I have shown. We live in a rich Western culture where we have become smug. Anyone who tries to wake people from their spiritual slumber will be attacked. You seem to ignore the attacks on me. I think you have a doctrinal bent that assumes I don't know what I'm talking about.

But there is personal righteousness...not that those who are righteous claim to be so. We live in a time where the predominate religious culture encourages people to impute righteousness on themselves for having certain beliefs. That's the self-righteousness you should worry about. That is the state that I am trying to rectify by engaging people with what is actually written in the bible. I need to do this to help others. If I don't then I will have some of the blame for the dead state of the church. The truth is going to come out...either now or when multitudes of modern believers are rejected from the kingdom. Better to settle the issues right now. It is the wise thing to do.

When we attack people and put people down, that comes from self righteousness(unrighteousness). It comes from the darkness and not The Light. When a person is truly born again(from above) they have received both The Father and The Son(Jesus) in The Form of The Holy Spirit. It was The Holy Spirit that was sent to enter and make His abode within the believer just like Jesus promised. And this is so. It is The Lord that enters into us. "Behold I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will
come into him and eat with him, and he with Me." The Holy Spirit is Holy and Righteous. For He alone is Holy and Righteous and yet before the foundation of the world He determined to be with us, and in us, to do what we can not. So yes there is Holiness and Righteousness within those who believe. The Lord is with me Episkopos even though I am not worthy. I have sat back and watched what you have said to others in here and how you have put them down and attacked them, even my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. You are like a man standing on a street corner saying" come to me I have what you need, I have the answers. You do not have the answers, but only I do, for I have the higher calling" But when I look at this man I see his entire body is covered in tatoos. And moving closer I see begin to see the words of the tatoos. The words are all the words you used to attack, and accuse, and put down others. So yeh, Episkopos, these words,(idle) all of them, are still before The Lord. He that is truly born from above can not do and say the things you have done for a Good tree does not bare bad fruit. Repent, buy yourself some Oil and let The Lord show you His ways even to love one another as Christ first loved us. The words on these boards, perhaps, can not be erased, but tatoos can, but will they?

Do you have tatoos? I say this in all honesty as I see people accusing me of what they are doing.

You don't like having your acceptance of certain doctrines exposed? OK. People hate having their doctrines exposed. But how can the Body move forward if any prophetic criticism is censured? Just look back on the posts to see who is being carnal...look! If it seems that I'm calling out carnal when there is carnality, that is simply stating the truth. But people hate truth!

Rather than patronizing me...engage in the discussion with an honest intent and go from there. Don't assume you are more righteous *as I see you doing here) ...just try to be clear in your doctrine and share from your heart.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

An uncovered righteousness is filthy.

Oh my gosh, how many years ago has it been that I first met you because I asked a question. I FINALLY understand your answer.

I remember I was disturbed by the verse in Ezekiel 21.
3 Tell her, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am your enemy, O Israel, and I am about to unsheath my sword to destroy your people—the righteous and the wicked alike. 4 Yes, I will cut off both the righteous and the wicked! I will draw my sword against everyone in the land from south to north.5 Everyone in the world will know that I am the Lord.

I never could quite grasp, in Revelation, who the filthy(vile in my translation) were. They are, in the doctrines, the ones treated so poorly by the covered ones that all the warnings for the covered ones are about. They’re the orphans and widows, in spirit.
Im thinking if Ezekiel had just said filthy rather than righteous I would have maybe seen it sooner but…probably not.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It’s sort of…beautiful, it’s a true poetic justice, that we are to care for these husbandless and fatherless and that some of them will be welcomed in for a small kindness to the covered while the ones who were full in this life but refused to show mercy to these orphans and widows will go into the outer darkness.

I still have suspicion the outer darkness is only for the thousand years though. I’m very stubborn in that I guess.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh my gosh wait…I still have something wrong. That’s not it, is it? We’re talking about the end here. Ezekiel didn’t say filthy because God did mean the covered righteous who did not do righteously.

I don’t know if it will always keep flipping back and forth in my mind like this. I think that Flipping might be because of what’s still in me. When I move a bit away from (humility?) it flips and when I move back towards humility it flips again. That’s probably not going to make sense to you…but it’s a real thing.

 

[Episkopos]

It’s sort of…beautiful, it’s a true poetic justice, that we are to care for these husbandless and fatherless and that some of them will be welcomed in for a small kindness to the covered while the ones who were full in this life but refused to show mercy to these orphans and widows will go into the outer darkness.

I still have suspicion the outer darkness is only for the thousand years though. I’m very stubborn in that I guess.

Actually there is no outer darkness until the next age...and Jude does so that it is forever.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh my gosh, how many years ago has it been that I first met you because I asked a question. I FINALLY understand your answer.

I remember I was disturbed by the verse in Ezekiel 21.
3 Tell her, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am your enemy, O Israel, and I am about to unsheath my sword to destroy your people—the righteous and the wicked alike. 4 Yes, I will cut off both the righteous and the wicked! I will draw my sword against everyone in the land from south to north.5 Everyone in the world will know that I am the Lord.

I never could quite grasp, in Revelation, who the filthy(vile in my translation) were. They are, in the doctrines, the ones treated so poorly by the covered ones that all the warnings for the covered ones are about. They’re the orphans and widows, in spirit.
Im thinking if Ezekiel had just said filthy rather than righteous I would have maybe seen it sooner but…probably not.

The filthy are those who present themselves as if they are holy....but are not.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I guess this would be a good place to ask.
Epi, how do you think satan might try to prevent men from walking in the Spirit in holiness just as he tries to prevent them from understanding so that they can begin to rule over their flesh? Oh…stupid question. He would do the same exact thing - make them think they were already holy even though they were only just weaned. Yeah…he will always try to convince men they are above where they are.
Its just that…I ask the question because I’m so happy and peaceful where He has put me that I’m a little scared I will be complacent. But unless He takes me into His love, there’s absolutely nothing I could do anyway…I can no more will myself into His love than I could will myself to master my flesh…
I sometimes wish I never read Nee. The fear of that word he used (complacency) has vaguely haunted me for 16 years and made it difficult to stop trying to master my flesh in my own power.

 

[Johann]

.the outer sinful nature cut away.

Please brother, too many words, and like Wuest, you believe in the "surgical removing of the sinful nature..."

Digital righteousness? Analog?

The filthy are those who present themselves as if they are holy....but are not.

But you promote holiness, sinless perfection, the "cutting away of the sinful nature..." foreign to Scriptures, so who's filthy?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The filthy are those who present themselves as if they are holy....but are not.

Oh sheesh. What is to be done for me??!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Oh my gosh, how many years ago has it been that I first met you because I asked a question. I FINALLY understand your answer.

I remember I was disturbed by the verse in Ezekiel 21.
3 Tell her, ‘This is what the Lord says: I am your enemy, O Israel, and I am about to unsheath my sword to destroy your people—the righteous and the wicked alike. 4 Yes, I will cut off both the righteous and the wicked! I will draw my sword against everyone in the land from south to north.5 Everyone in the world will know that I am the Lord.

I never could quite grasp, in Revelation, who the filthy(vile in my translation) were. They are, in the doctrines, the ones treated so poorly by the covered ones that all the warnings for the covered ones are about. They’re the orphans and widows, in spirit.
Im thinking if Ezekiel had just said filthy rather than righteous I would have maybe seen it sooner but…probably not.

Lol. Then why did you like this post?? I just said the filthy are the ones treated so poorly! That’s wrong.

 

[Episkopos]

Please brother, too many words, and like Wuest, you believe in the "surgical removing of the sinful nature..."

Digital righteousness? Analog?

But you promote holiness, sinless perfection, the "cutting away of the sinful nature..." foreign to Scriptures, so who's filthy?

Modern religion teaches us that we have no need to repent, be humble, seek the Lord...etc Since we have all we need by just believing we are accepted as we are. In fact, the tables have been turned. We are told that we are the ones who are doing the accepting...its up to us to accept Christ or not. And I suppose that means He must be very grateful that He is accepted by us.

Really?

Does God serve our flesh the same way we do?

Repentance is needed to turn the world back the right side up. God is the One doing the accepting, not us. God does the justifying, not us.

The filthy are the posers who claim to be rich in grace and yet are simply covered by the flesh. They bring what is unclean into the holy place. A self-righteousness that poses as being covered by God's righteousness adds filth or leaven into the mix. God will reject those who do this. Outer darkness is reserved for these.

 

[Episkopos]

Lol. Then why did you like this post?? I just said the filthy are the ones treated so poorly! That’s wrong.

In the case of Ez. 21...the ones who would otherwise be righteous put themselves in a place they don't belong. How is that possible? By disrespecting the holiness of God without fear or consideration of who God is.

 

[Episkopos]

Things will never change unless there is some honest appraisal of where we find ourselves in church history. On another thread I posted a poll that got little to no attention. Nobody opted for light being a cover for darkness. Why not? That's what at least half of people believe on this forum. Yet when it is laid out clearly....there is too much shame and dishonesty to vote as they ought to. Too much hiding in darkness. With that kind of dissimulation, we maintain a dead church. We can't fool God...We need to come out of the darkness into the light.

Is grace a cover up for sin or an empowerment of the inner man to walk as Jesus walked?

Luther was unashamed of his position. He said no amount of sin could overcome God's grace. We could "sin boldly" all we want. God's grace can never run out!

But Luther's followers have no such honesty or courage. Instead they hide in the darkness and simply rail against bringers of light. This forum is a dark place with a few slivers of light here and there.

 

[mailmandan]

Acts 20:28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.