I have a question for atheists.If a person tells you, "I do not believe God exists," you obviously have a mutual common ground with them. Do you require them to have knowledge, reason, or some form of valid explaination for this belief, or do you "accept them into the fold," of intelligent thinkers simply given the fact that they share the same belief that there is no God?
Intelligence required for unbelief?
- Thread starter treeoflife
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So atheists are not intelligent because they do not believe in G-d is that what your saying? Suppose some one turned that question on you and ask why you believe in G-d? Do you accept them at their word because they say they believe in G-d? Just curious as to why you would pose this question since their beliefs are obviously going to counter what you believe....
(Jerusalem Junkie;49524)
So atheists are not intelligent because they do not believe in G-d is that what your saying? Suppose some one turned that question on you and ask why you believe in G-d? Do you accept them at their word because they say they believe in G-d? Just curious as to why you would pose this question since their beliefs are obviously going to counter what you believe....
Uhhh what? I said nothing of the sort that atheist are not intelligent. I would say most assuridly unwise (though I did not say so in my question above), but not unintelligent.Anyways, all I did was ask a question. I made no implication an atheist is unintelligent.
So atheists are not intelligent because they do not believe in G-d is that what your saying? Suppose some one turned that question on you and ask why you believe in G-d? Do you accept them at their word because they say they believe in G-d? Just curious as to why you would pose this question since their beliefs are obviously going to counter what you believe....
Uhhh what? I said nothing of the sort that atheist are not intelligent. I would say most assuridly unwise (though I did not say so in my question above), but not unintelligent.Anyways, all I did was ask a question. I made no implication an atheist is unintelligent.
(Jerusalem Junkie;49527)
Did I write in Arabic or something.
I was wondering the same thing...
Anyways, I'll come back another day to see what answers have been given.
Did I write in Arabic or something.
I was wondering the same thing...
I'm going to ask you, since you have PM's blocked, to stop posting in this thread because you immediately took it OFF TOPIC. My original post made NO SUCH ACCUSATIONS as you assumed. Leave it alone please.
Oh but it did..........and my question was not off topic its just one you cannot answer so you assume its off topic....
To answer the question: No, being an atheist does not automatically make you intelligent. Many atheists have a poor understanding of philosophy and theology just like many theists do, and some atheists have very bad justifications for being atheists.That being said, insofar as theism is considered normative in society, I do find that atheists are more likely to be intelligent because it requires a willingness to critically analyze and challenge established societal norms. Those who never question anything and simply believe whatever they're told are going to wind up as theists, by and large, because that's what they were raised as.This is a claim that is backed up by plenty of evidence; atheism rates among the well-educated are substantially higher than those among the poorly-educated. Among scientists, reports have cited numbers between 60 and 90 percent. So I would say that, on average, atheists are more intelligent. I am not saying, however, that all theists are unintelligent or that all atheists are intelligent.As a tangent, the use of the phrase "accept them into the fold" makes atheism sound like some sort of secret cult that's looking for recruits. Bear in mind that atheism is not a religion, please.
(treeoflife;49521)
I have a question for atheists.If a person tells you, "I do not believe God exists," you obviously have a mutual common ground with them. Do you require them to have knowledge, reason, or some form of valid explaination for this belief, or do you "accept them into the fold," of intelligent thinkers simply given the fact that they share the same belief that there is no God?
The short answer is no. A person can be dumb as a box of rocks and not believe in God. I've even met some people who are irritating, ignorant and not too bright and also atheist. Sometimes people also say they are atheist without really even knowing or having had thought about what it means (the same happens with belief in God). Lastly, I would not say there is an atheist "fold"; just because someone does not believe in God is not going to make me feel any kind of similarity with them automatically - much the same way you presumably would not automatically feel any kind of similarity with someone who also does not believe in something you don't believe, for example the much used, fairies.
I have a question for atheists.If a person tells you, "I do not believe God exists," you obviously have a mutual common ground with them. Do you require them to have knowledge, reason, or some form of valid explaination for this belief, or do you "accept them into the fold," of intelligent thinkers simply given the fact that they share the same belief that there is no God?
The short answer is no. A person can be dumb as a box of rocks and not believe in God. I've even met some people who are irritating, ignorant and not too bright and also atheist. Sometimes people also say they are atheist without really even knowing or having had thought about what it means (the same happens with belief in God). Lastly, I would not say there is an atheist "fold"; just because someone does not believe in God is not going to make me feel any kind of similarity with them automatically - much the same way you presumably would not automatically feel any kind of similarity with someone who also does not believe in something you don't believe, for example the much used, fairies.
"The short answer is no. A person can be dumb as a box of rocks and not believe in God."
Okay, so a person can be an atheist and not be smart. We have that down then.If a person can be "as dumb as a box of rocks," and be an athiest... then what motive, apart from evidence or intellect, would such a person as this have to not believe in God? Since we would hope to at least arrive at this conclusion by some sort of thought, or intelligent consideration, and since a person can arrive at the conclusion that there is no God, apart from, and prior to being "smart."
Okay, so a person can be an atheist and not be smart. We have that down then.If a person can be "as dumb as a box of rocks," and be an athiest... then what motive, apart from evidence or intellect, would such a person as this have to not believe in God? Since we would hope to at least arrive at this conclusion by some sort of thought, or intelligent consideration, and since a person can arrive at the conclusion that there is no God, apart from, and prior to being "smart."
(treeoflife;49582)
If a person can be "as dumb as a box of rocks," and be an athiest... then what motive, apart from evidence or intellect, would such a person as this have to not believe in God? Since we would hope to at least arrive at this conclusion by some sort of thought, or intelligent consideration, and since a person can arrive at the conclusion that there is no God, apart from, and prior to being "smart."
He probably thinks he has good reasons but is mistaken, much like theists.Or maybe he isn't smart but has just examined in this one issue in particular depth and come to good reasons in spite of his intellect.There are a lot of things you could say here; none of them seem unique to the atheist situation. What point are you trying to make?
If a person can be "as dumb as a box of rocks," and be an athiest... then what motive, apart from evidence or intellect, would such a person as this have to not believe in God? Since we would hope to at least arrive at this conclusion by some sort of thought, or intelligent consideration, and since a person can arrive at the conclusion that there is no God, apart from, and prior to being "smart."
He probably thinks he has good reasons but is mistaken, much like theists.Or maybe he isn't smart but has just examined in this one issue in particular depth and come to good reasons in spite of his intellect.There are a lot of things you could say here; none of them seem unique to the atheist situation. What point are you trying to make?
(Lunar;49583)
He probably thinks he has good reasons but is mistaken, much like theists.Or maybe he isn't smart but has just examined in this one issue in particular depth and come to good reasons in spite of his intellect.There are a lot of things you could say here; none of them seem unique to the atheist situation. What point are you trying to make?
I agree, the situation is not unique to atheistic belief. A person could be "dumb as a box of rocks" and believe in God, or a person could be "dumb as a box of rocks" and believe that there is no God.My point is that the belief in the existance of God and the belief in the non-existance of God are both made up in one's mind apart from intellect. The decision to believe or not believe in God is often made prior to knowledge. We may have some "revelation" later in life, or some may even flip back and forth between the two... and that is because the decision to believe or not believe in God is not based upon intellect... it is something else.I'm not 100% sure what my point is, accept to say that we may finally conclude, after much thought and reasoning that there is or is not a God... and we mature our belief. But the fact of the matter is that we can make this decision (to believe or believe not) without knowledge at all, and yet, one must still be true. I just think this common ground is often missed... the common ground being that this is more often, in my understanding, not an intellectual choice at first... it is a moral choice to believe or not believe. We then develope our facts around what we have already chosen to believe, since both can believed (and must be) without facts.
He probably thinks he has good reasons but is mistaken, much like theists.Or maybe he isn't smart but has just examined in this one issue in particular depth and come to good reasons in spite of his intellect.There are a lot of things you could say here; none of them seem unique to the atheist situation. What point are you trying to make?
I agree, the situation is not unique to atheistic belief. A person could be "dumb as a box of rocks" and believe in God, or a person could be "dumb as a box of rocks" and believe that there is no God.My point is that the belief in the existance of God and the belief in the non-existance of God are both made up in one's mind apart from intellect. The decision to believe or not believe in God is often made prior to knowledge. We may have some "revelation" later in life, or some may even flip back and forth between the two... and that is because the decision to believe or not believe in God is not based upon intellect... it is something else.I'm not 100% sure what my point is, accept to say that we may finally conclude, after much thought and reasoning that there is or is not a God... and we mature our belief. But the fact of the matter is that we can make this decision (to believe or believe not) without knowledge at all, and yet, one must still be true. I just think this common ground is often missed... the common ground being that this is more often, in my understanding, not an intellectual choice at first... it is a moral choice to believe or not believe. We then develope our facts around what we have already chosen to believe, since both can believed (and must be) without facts.
I don't know how you are concluding this based on the fact that some atheists are unintelligent. Like I said, I think most atheists, intelligent or not, are using reason to justify their beliefs. Some just do it better than others. I don't know what morality has to do with it.treeoflife;49634]My point is that the belief in the existance of God and the belief in the non-existance of God are both made up in one said:
This is just sort of speculation, because I was taught about all religions from early childhood, but I was never told what to believe (for which I am very thankful to my parents), and I have thought about religiosity, God etc. quite a lot before coming to any conclusion, and I am still open to change in my views. Anyway, I think in many, many cases the belief/non-belief is a result of being brought up in a specific environment. Surprisingly many people never think about or question these matters. In the case of many theists (or rather people who think they believe in God and attend church service) they were always told there is a God and taught a specific religion, and they never thought about it. In cases of some atheists (or rather people who do not specifically believe, and may label themselves as "non-religious"), they perhaps grew up in a non-religious environment and have just never thought about it. It is too bad, I much prefer people think about these matters rather than just accept what they have been told.
Lunar said:
I don't know how you are concluding this based on the fact that some atheists are unintelligent. Like I said, I think most atheists, intelligent or not, are using reason to justify their beliefs. Some just do it better than others. I don't know what morality has to do with it.
I have to agree with treeoflife, I don't think the initial belief or lack there of has to do with intellect used for reasoning belief but rather reasoning of morals and a means to justify moral behaviors and standards. Morality has everything to do with it. How many times have you heard someone say that they could not possibly turn to God because they would be forced to change their lifestyle? To me the justification is for morals and not beliefs at all. Even the most intelligent atheist can be turned toward God, just as the most intelligent Christian can be turned to atheism. But to me it boils down to whether or not many (not all) want to keep a looser lifestyle being one without God or a lifestyle that God has set for us.....IMHO
I don't know how you are concluding this based on the fact that some atheists are unintelligent. Like I said, I think most atheists, intelligent or not, are using reason to justify their beliefs. Some just do it better than others. I don't know what morality has to do with it.
I have to agree with treeoflife, I don't think the initial belief or lack there of has to do with intellect used for reasoning belief but rather reasoning of morals and a means to justify moral behaviors and standards. Morality has everything to do with it. How many times have you heard someone say that they could not possibly turn to God because they would be forced to change their lifestyle? To me the justification is for morals and not beliefs at all. Even the most intelligent atheist can be turned toward God, just as the most intelligent Christian can be turned to atheism. But to me it boils down to whether or not many (not all) want to keep a looser lifestyle being one without God or a lifestyle that God has set for us.....IMHO
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