IS ALL SIN FORGIVEN ?

[CharismaticLady]

All who are saved are Gods elect.
Jesus is the true Israel and us in Him.
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

What proof is there that you are one of God's elect? If it is just a random choice, who can know for sure?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What proof is there that you are one of God's elect? If it is just a random choice, who can know for sure?

CL,
God never does anything random.
The bible declares the fact and reality of election unto salvation. A person cannot believe the gospel savingly unless drawn to Jesus by the Spirit. Everyone believing will continue on in faith.
In fact we are commanded to make our calling and election sure,watch here;
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

 

[Enoch111]

This verse declares we have forgiveness for ALL sin, not as some say, only for sins we confess, and repent of.

All PAST SINS are forgiven at the time of conversion. Therefore you should have also quoted Romans 3:25:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

That does not preclude dealing with PRESENT sins. See 1 John 1 as well as other passages. Hyper-Grace teachers try to mislead Christians and tell them that they need not bother with their present sins. And some deluded Christians believe that they are ALREADY sinlessly perfect.

 

[CharismaticLady]

CL,
God never does anything random.
The bible declares the fact and reality of election unto salvation. A person cannot believe the gospel savingly unless drawn to Jesus by the Spirit. Everyone believing will continue on in faith.
In fact we are commanded to make our calling and election sure,watch here;
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Yes, I know 2 Peter 1 just about by heart. But look at that verse you highlighted. It implies if you don't do these things according to verse 9, your election is NOT sure. Don't you see that??? I think you assume too much. Like OSAS.

 

[Timtofly]

All confessed sin is forgiven.
Psalms 66:18
"If I regard wickedness in mine heart, the Lord will not hear me."

 

[Joseph77]

All confessed sin is forgiven.

..... except those "for them there no longer remains ANY SACRIFICE FOR THEIR SIN" (even if they repent ten thousand times, there's no way for their sin to be forgiven.)

.... and those who commit the unpardonable sin - no matter how many times they would repent, if they could , if they tried or did, they are unpardonable.

... maybe "there is a sin that leads to death, I (Jesus) do not say to pray for them" ... also ?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Yes, I know 2 Peter 1 just about by heart. But look at that verse you highlighted. It implies if you don't do these things according to verse 9, your election is NOT sure. Don't you see that??? I think you assume too much. Like OSAS.

Salvation is of the Lord from start to
finish. It is certain for all true believers.
The assurance of salvation is only enjoyed by those who are in obedience to those things listed.
Notice the fact of election is not questioned.
If you understand the Covenant nature of salvation you would know this is not an issue.

 

[Joseph77]

Tangent or obvious question then follows:

Since A MULTITUDE of believers today are "certain" they are saved, and they are not, what then?

They have "assurance of salvation", from themselves and others, yet are told to get lost on Judgment Day, by the Judge, the Perfect, Righteous Judge, our Savior, the Messiah Jesus.

Salvation is of the Lord from start to
finish. It is certain for all true believers.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Salvation is of the Lord from start to
finish. It is certain for all true believers.
The assurance of salvation is only enjoyed by those who are in obedience to those things listed.
Notice the fact of election is not questioned.
If you understand the Covenant nature of salvation you would know this is not an issue.

If that's how you want to read it, so be it. I tried...

True believers don't sin, so if you believe that, then we agree. This covenant is of the Spirit, not the Law, therefore the Spirit gives us power and Jesus condemned sin in the flesh, meaning we are in the Spirit not in the flesh. Those who live by the flesh are condemned.

 

[Joseph77]

So the sins you commit , willfully or unwillingly, today, or yesterday, or tomorrow,
in threads, posts, thoughts, life, at home, away from home, wherever?,
would condemn you !?

If that's how you want to read it, so be it. I tried...
True believers don't sin, so if you believe that, then we agree. This covenant is of the Spirit, not the Law, therefore the Spirit gives us power and Jesus condemned sin in the flesh, meaning we are in the Spirit not in the flesh. Those who live by the flesh are condemned.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

If that's how you want to read it, so be it. I tried...

True believers don't sin, so if you believe that, then we agree. This covenant is of the Spirit, not the Law, therefore the Spirit gives us power and Jesus condemned sin in the flesh, meaning we are in the Spirit not in the flesh. Those who live by the flesh are condemned.

We all sin.
Roman's 7....Paul said...wretched man that I AM.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Tangent or obvious question then follows:

Since A MULTITUDE of believers today are "certain" they are saved, and they are not, what then?

They have "assurance of salvation", from themselves and others, yet are told to get lost on Judgment Day, by the Judge, the Perfect, Righteous Judge, our Savior, the Messiah Jesus.

Deluded souls and false professors will not get past the judgment of God.

 

[Joseph77]

Deluded souls and false professors will not get past the judgment of God.

Including wof adherents ? I don't remember what if anything you posted concerning them. Thx.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We all sin.
Roman's 7....Paul said...wretched man that I AM.

That was before Romans 8 that said he was now free from sin. You are reading out of context. Romans 7 iT how is was for those who only had the LAW (before Christ), but we have the Spirit that gives us power over sin. If your church is teaching otherwise, RUN!

 

[Timtofly]

That was before Romans 8 that said he was now free from sin. You are reading out of context. Romans 7 iT how is was for those who only had the LAW (before Christ), but we have the Spirit that gives us power over sin. If your church is teaching otherwise, RUN!

Being free from sin is not the same thing as not sinning. It just means your sinning does not control you, unless you are addicted to your sin. Every one is a slave to addiction, both saved and lost.

You do not have to sin. If you do sin, repentance and confession prevents sin from taking over. A sinless human is one who no longer thinks. God would be doing all one's thinking.

Addictions need outside intervention from a professional who understands addictions and can get you through the slavery part to release you from the addiction.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Being free from sin is not the same thing as not sinning. It just means your sinning does not control you, unless you are addicted to your sin. Every one is a slave to addiction, both saved and lost.

You do not have to sin. If you do sin, repentance and confession prevents sin from taking over. A sinless human is one who no longer thinks. God would be doing all one's thinking.

Addictions need outside intervention from a professional who understands addictions and can get you through the slavery part to release you from the addiction.

You are mainly speaking of addictions. What are your thoughts if you are not addicted to anything sinful?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

That was before Romans 8 that said he was now free from sin. You are reading out of context. Romans 7 iT how is was for those who only had the LAW (before Christ), but we have the Spirit that gives us power over sin. If your church is teaching otherwise, RUN!

You completely do not understand.
Paul is a believer in all of Romans.
Paul was saved before he wrote the letter.
You have followed false teachers who do not understand law or grace.

 

[Timtofly]

You are mainly speaking of addictions. What are your thoughts if you are not addicted to anything sinful?

Are you asking if being addicted to something like food is sinful?

An addiction controls your life. You cannot serve God and an addiction at the same time. Is not serving God a sin? It is if God told you specifically to serve God. Only each individual can answer that question.

Any sin or addiction will detour you from God. It would be like setting up camp somewhere. You will never be useful, nor gather rewards, just sitting around serving your own desires. Paul says that it is a race to be run, and won.

 

[Joseph77]

What about an addiction to sin - unwilling to stop, or so far from God, not even knowing they are living in total sin ?

 

[Steve Owen]

Tangent or obvious question then follows:

Since A MULTITUDE of believers today are "certain" they are saved, and they are not, what then?

They have "assurance of salvation", from themselves and others, yet are told to get lost on Judgment Day, by the Judge, the Perfect, Righteous Judge, our Savior, the Messiah Jesus.

I'd like to add a bit to the excellent work of @Anthony D'Arienzo on this thread.

Romans 8:1. 'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus........' That seems remarkably clear to me, but the question is asked, how do I know if I am in Christ Jesus? Obviously, as you say, there are multitudes today who believe they are saved, but are not.
'........Who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.' The mark of the Christian is that he has a new principle of righteousness within him, which is the Holy Spirit. Every Christian has the Holy Spirit. 'That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit' John 3:6). 'So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his' (Romans 8:8-9).

But the Scripture tells us that in every Christian there remains a relic of the old sinful nature ('flesh'). Paul is writing to Christians when he says, 'Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey its lust' (Romans 6:12). And to the Christians at Colosse, he writes, 'Therefore put to death [or 'mortify'] your members that are on the earth' (Colossians 3:5). Not that he doesn't say, 'put yourselves to death,' for the very good reason that it's already happened (v.3).

So my answer to the question, how do I know if I'm saved, is this: have you seen yourself as a lost sinner, justly under the condemnation of God? Have you repented of your sin and trusted in nothing else but the blood of the Lord Jesus, shed for sinners on the cross? And now are you seeking, by the Spirit, on a daily basis to put to death that relic of sin that dwells within, not you, but your flesh (c.f. Galatians 5:16-18)? Does it grieve you when you fail to do this as thoroughly you should, and do you confess your failure to God (1 John 1:8 - 2:2)? If you can answer all these questions in the affirmative, I believe that is a powerful indication that you are born of the Spirit and a child of God. And if you are, then Romans 8:1 applies to you.

I strongly recommend reading The Mortification of Sin by the Puritan John Owen. It is not an easy read - Owen seldom uses one word where ten will do - but it will reward the effort. Alternatively, a chap named Kris Lundgaard has written a book based on Owen's work, but much easier to read, called The Enemy Within (P & R Publishing, 1998).