Is BAPTISM MANDATORY for SALVATION...

[marks]

This seems to put the "CHERRY" on top for me, at least right now, to possibly understand how we could possibly be loved by God and called into His kingdom with different perspectives on how to come to Christ, if it's a heartfelt commitment to Christ, not legalistic ideas or from rule keeping, but that a persons calling from God, may still be his salvation?

What I'm saying is, is it possible that no matter how we differ in our coming to Christ, is it possible, because of Gods huge emphasis on love throughout the bible, that you and I could differ in how we came to Christ, but because we choose to love each other, we can both still be saved because we love each other and don't let our varying perspectives destroy our fellowship.

Is it possible that our salvation could be based partly on how we love more than what we have come to believe and know.

Is love more important than knowledge??

I've been thinking about this since you posted it.

Ephesians 4
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

I think it was Alstair Begg a couple weeks ago describing God as searching for a humanity that is hiding from Him. I think that He finds us however He finds us, and through Christ redeems us. And then begins the unifying us in faith and knowledge.

Much love!

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I hope I'm not pushing you away!

I've been enjoying having this discussion with someone nice! I don't always get that opportunity. But I do have about a dozen on ignore right now.

Much love!

Not one bit my friend. We are enjoying getting to know each other.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Not a bit Marks. Your not pushing me away.

Being here while reading scriptures, and watching the way people are here, and being drawn into a deeper relationship with Christ, all at the same time, has also made me want a more loving and deeper relationship with imperfect loving people here like myself.

It's amazing how God will lead me into a situation like being here, and then begin doing a new work in me, and bringing me a new teaching that is from scripture, but i needed my eyes and heart opened to hear and see what He has in mind. It's surprising and a bit overwhelming, as I try to assimilate where God is taking me with this, but I've been here before and God always comes through.

I just need to trust and leave everything in His hands, and be patient as the Holy Spirit leads me to where I need to be here, and in His word.

I hope all that made sense Marks.

God bless you as we get to know each other better in Christ.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I've been thinking about this since you posted it.

Ephesians 4
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

I think it was Alstair Begg a couple weeks ago describing God as searching for a humanity that is hiding from Him. I think that He finds us however He finds us, and through Christ redeems us. And then begins the unifying us in faith and knowledge.

Much love!

Just thinking that our faiths are never "STATIC", but were always growing and changing, if indeed we sincerely belong to Christ in our heart.

We can't see into the future as God can, and as I have changed several times in my beliefs, and will probably continue until my last breath, many here including yourself will change too as we mature in Gods word, and move beyond where we are now.

So how can we just judge someone for where they are now, when some will probably move on and change to be more like Christ, as God in His wisdom calls us to, soooooooooo...what is the one thing that can be stable as all else continues to change as we grow.....
THE CHOICE TO LOVE!!

Yes, it will become deeper and grow more complete over the years as we continue to allow Christ to be the center of our lives.....

but love is still a stable choice even as it continues to grow in us, because it will always affect others the way God has ALWAYS intended, no matter our maturity. It'll just get better.
MARVELOUS - THANK YOU GOD!!

My name is OLIGOS

 

[marks]

I hope all that made sense Marks.

It makes perfect sense! It's being a child.

Maybe this forum is God's rock polisher! This is us:

Much love!

 

[marksman]

....but SALVATION IS ALSO CONDITIONAL. (Paul speaks of salvation.).

Now you have to understand that this has always been a DEVISIVE TOPIC, and always will be.

My title of this thread and my explaination here are my HEART FELT beliefs from scriptures, but not meant to be forced on anyone here.
You all have the right to your own beliefs, and I'm just sharing mine as another choice you may consider after reading my post.

I am not a "GLADIATOR coming here to the "COLISEUM of Christian WARFARE.
I don't fight - I DISCUSS.
Thank you God!!

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42 years ago when I gave my life to Christ, Christianity was much different than today.
Romans 14"22 Says, "The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God.
Happy is he who doesn't condemn himself in what he approves".

Some of what was believed at the time when I was Born Again 42 years ago, I still hold as true, while there are many other teachings, I have discovered through my studies and prayer life, and leading of the Holy Spirit, I found that there are false teachings of major bible doctrine at every church I have ever attended.

I have spent 42 years not only reading, studying, and researching the bible, but I have studied the history of the bible and church history from the beginning.

I am 76 years old and have had 17 years of retirement, and have spent thousands of hours in my studies, so I feel confident that I am at least right for myself.
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To me "Believing" is not a point of salvation, but is a beginning point where we are lead to a conditional state of being saved, where the process of salvation begins, when at our time of baptism before we are baptized, we confess our faith in Christ by proclaiming "WE BELIVE in Christ as our Savior, and we repent of our sins and ask God for forgiveness of our past sinful life, Acts 2:38 and once we are "BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST" Romans 6:3, and are forgiven of our sins Acts 2:38, and receive the "GIFT of the HOLY SPIRIT Acts 2;38.
When studied out in the original Greek language , the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT is conditional, as told to us in 2nd Corinthians 1:21-22,'Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us, is God:
22)Who has "SEALED (arrabon or sphragizo) us (A temporary or conditional mark of ownership that we can give up in rebellion) and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a "PLEDGE" or"EARNEST" (arrabon or sphragizo Down payment ,temporary guarantee, deposit earnest agreement as in buying a house, that we must fulfill).
Same as 2nd Cor, 5:5 says, "Now he who prepared us for the very purpose of eternal life(See verse 4) is God, who Gave to us the SPIRIT as a PLEDGE.
Ephesians 4:30, "And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God who you were sealed by (sphragizo or arrabon) unto the day of redemption.

So as 2nd Cor. 5:17 says, "if any man IS IN CHRIST (You have to be in CHRIST) he is a new creation. "

How do you get into Christ??
Back to Romans 6:3 "Or do you not know that all who have been "BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST"...have been BAPTIZED into His death.

6:5) "For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death (Through baptism), certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection .
5:11) "...so consider yourself to be dead to sin, but alive to God "IN CHRIST"

Again, how do you get into Christ? - Romans 6:3 "YOU ARE BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST"!!

Romans 8:1," There is therefore no condemnation for those who are IN CHRIST JESUS."

Again, how do you get into Christ Jesus - Romans 6:3 , "YOU ARE BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST"

Romans 8:9, "if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to God."

Again, How do we get the Spirit of Christ? - Acts 3:38, "We are baptized and receive the GIFT of the Holy spirit.

We can be freed from sin - in BAPTISM - Romans6:7,"...for he who has been BAPTIZED is FREED FROM SIN."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit are the same and there is only one way to receive either - that's through BAPTISM

So is baptism MANDATORY?
You can ask for forgiveness of your past sins - BAPTISM
You can be forgiven - BAPTISM
You can repent of your sins - BAPTISM
You can receive the gift of the Holy Spirit - BAPTISM
You can be in Christ - BAPTISM
You can be freed from sin - BAPTISM
Romans 6:7,"For he who has been BAPTIZED is freed from sin."
You can receive an earnest or down payment on eternal life. - BAPTISM.

Where else in the bible do you get all this in one act of obeying God about our starting place and foundation for being saved and salvation????

Salvation is also conditional on observing the Sabbath
Salvation is also conditional on obeying the 10 Commandments
Another day!!

There is so much more, but I'm close to writing a small book.
God bless you all
My name is OLIGOS

Just a word of advice. All your hard work, study, and knowledge means nothing to a lot of people here because they believe that their opinion supersedes all that. To them, you don't need knowledge. All you need is an opinion.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Just a word of advice. All your hard work, study, and knowledge means nothing to a lot of people here because they believe that their opinion supersedes all that. To them, you don't need knowledge. All you need is an opinion.

That's alright marksman.
I believe God is just bringing people together here who can honestly communicate in love, have true fellowship, and learn from each other in PEACE.

I think I read that somewhere in the bible .

Anyway, my name is OLIGOS

 

[marks]

but love is still a stable choice even as it continues to grow in us, because it will always affect others the way God has ALWAYS intended, no matter our maturity. It'll just get better.
MARVELOUS - THANK YOU GOD!!

There ya go!

That's perfect! We may change our views on some doctrines, but yes, in love we will only grow. As you say, if we are truly His.

Much love!

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

There ya go!

That's perfect! We may change our views on some doctrines, but yes, in love we will only grow. As you say, if we are truly His.

Much love!

That's because it came from God not me.
I don't have that kind of wisdom.
That's why I lean on God so heavily .

My name is OLIGOS

 

[marksman]

That's alright marksman.
I believe God is just bringing people together here who can honestly communicate in love, have true fellowship, and learn from each other in PEACE.

I think I read that somewhere in the bible .

Anyway, my name is OLIGOS

Golly gosh oligos. Sorry, but I couldn't resist it.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Golly gosh oligos. Sorry, but I couldn't resist it.

No kum bai ya either - LOL

 

[Paul Christensen]

I'm put in mind of the man who wonders if he should wear a wedding ring. "I married her, didn't I? That should be plenty! Why make a public declaration of it?"

I wear a wedding ring to prevent other women thinking I'm a good catch and running after me!

 

[historyb]

...but SALVATION IS ALSO CONDITIONAL. (Paul speaks of salvation.).

Yes Baptism is mandatory

 

[Paul Christensen]

I don't see how you reconcile these . . .

If salvation is conditional on obeying the 10 commandments, and you have failed to keep them, well, I don't think you are saying you've lost your salvation, right? I don't understand how salvation that is conditional upon keeping the 10 commandments is held by one who breaks those commandments.

Much love!

Paul was quite clear in stating that justification does not come by keeping the Law, and that includes the Ten Commandments. This is because if one is going to depend on his ability to keep the Commandments in order to be saved, he has to keep them from his youth to the perfect, faultless standard, without one, even minor infraction. The moment I think that I am missing out on what my fellow believer has, and think I should have it too (envy), I have shot myself in the foot as far as the Law is concerned, and I am sunk. This is because if I have broken just one part of the Law, I've effectively broken the lot.

Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees then we cannot be His disciples. We know that the Pharisees were so fastidious about keeping the Law to excess, that they kept the Law in ways that we could never keep it. To all intents and purposes they were blameless, as Paul said was his observance to the Law. But although they were blameless in keeping the rules of the Law, their hearts were impure. This is because keeping the Law for a Jew did not involve the heart. It was all to do with outward observance.

Many professing Christians are like that. They attend church, talk the talk, know the Bible (as the demons do and believe it), live moral lives, tread their wives and children well, not cruel to animals, do all kinds of community work to help the poor and disadvantaged. But that observances hasn't travelling down into their hearts. Their hearts are still in the world, while their outward appearances is very religious. These ones can even do mighty works for the Lord, cast out demons, and prophesy in His Name, but because their hearts were not right with God, Jesus will say, "I never knew you".

The trouble is, we don't know the difference by just looking at them. We can't tell even by fellowship with them Sunday by Sunday. They could be the pastor, elder or deacon in the "best" church in the city, and yet be far away from God in their hearts. The bottom line is, that we can only give them the benefit of the doubt and allow God to be the judge of the hearts. In many cases, we can do what they say, but not always what they do.

Actually, their spouses and children are the best to be able to determine whether they are the same at home as at church. Some are "angels" at church, but "devils" at home. I am glad that my daughter once told me that I was just as crazy at church as I am at home. She sees who I really am at home, and when she sees me in church she sees no difference and that is why she respects my faith in Christ because it does not involve hypocrisy.

I once told the guys in a men's Bible study when we were discussing the subject of pride, that the toilet is the leveller of people. We all have to go and sit there, and use deodorant when done. I have also said that holier than thou people are taller than me; when I look up at them it gives me a pain in the neck!

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Paul was quite clear in stating that justification does not come by keeping the Law, and that includes the Ten Commandments. This is because if one is going to depend on his ability to keep the Commandments in order to be saved, he has to keep them from his youth to the perfect, faultless standard, without one, even minor infraction. The moment I think that I am missing out on what my fellow believer has, and think I should have it too (envy), I have shot myself in the foot as far as the Law is concerned, and I am sunk. This is because if I have broken just one part of the Law, I've effectively broken the lot.

Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees then we cannot be His disciples. We know that the Pharisees were so fastidious about keeping the Law to excess, that they kept the Law in ways that we could never keep it. To all intents and purposes they were blameless, as Paul said was his observance to the Law. But although they were blameless in keeping the rules of the Law, their hearts were impure. This is because keeping the Law for a Jew did not involve the heart. It was all to do with outward observance.

Many professing Christians are like that. They attend church, talk the talk, know the Bible (as the demons do and believe it), live moral lives, tread their wives and children well, not cruel to animals, do all kinds of community work to help the poor and disadvantaged. But that observances hasn't travelling down into their hearts. Their hearts are still in the world, while their outward appearances is very religious. These ones can even do mighty works for the Lord, cast out demons, and prophesy in His Name, but because their hearts were not right with God, Jesus will say, "I never knew you".

The trouble is, we don't know the difference by just looking at them. We can't tell even by fellowship with them Sunday by Sunday. They could be the pastor, elder or deacon in the "best" church in the city, and yet be far away from God in their hearts. The bottom line is, that we can only give them the benefit of the doubt and allow God to be the judge of the hearts. In many cases, we can do what they say, but not always what they do.

Actually, their spouses and children are the best to be able to determine whether they are the same at home as at church. Some are "angels" at church, but "devils" at home. I am glad that my daughter once told me that I was just as crazy at church as I am at home. She sees who I really am at home, and when she sees me in church she sees no difference and that is why she respects my faith in Christ because it does not involve hypocrisy.

I once told the guys in a men's Bible study when we were discussing the subject of pride, that the toilet is the leveller of people. We all have to go and sit there, and use deodorant when done. I have also said that holier than thou people are taller than me; when I look up at them it gives me a pain in the neck!

I liked your post and I still like your cat picture.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Paul Christensen]

I liked your post and I still like your cat picture.

My name is OLIGOS

She was asking me why her food bowl was empty when it should have been full!

 

[Paul Christensen]

Yes Baptism is mandatory

So, you are saying that faith alone in Christ is not enough?

To me, it is the same as saying that I was not really married until I put the wedding ring on my finger.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

If you have a relationship with God where you are keeping the Law and the Prophets,

Much love!

Matthew 22:37-40, "37)You shall love the Lord your God with all you heart, and soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength".
38)"This is the great and foremost commandment."
39) "And a second is like it, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
40) "ON THESE 2 COMMANDMENTS DEPEND THE WHOLE LAW AND THE PROPHETS.

So what is the fulfillment of the LAW and the PROPHETS?

It's an amazing tenet or doctrine or directive by GOD to simply LOVE God and all mankind GODS WAY, as God brings people into our everyday lives to love Gods way, not mans way, and when we are loving mankind Gods way, we fulfill every law that God has commanded us because Love is the fulfillment of every Law and commandment from God, if we do it perfectly, and we won't, but God knows our heart and is loving and kind to forgive us, as we continue to grow and become more perfect like Him.
God's greatest command is to love.
Love covers a multitude of sins.

Just think of it, if in my home I had 5 kids, ( and I did), and all my children were commanded to love one another perfectly and love their parents perfectly, and to honor the two greatest commands.
What would happen to the sin of the 10 commandment, and the 2 greatest commands if my children acted perfectly?
There would be no sin, or need for any other commands or laws, because the greatest commands and laws were completely fulfilled by my children loving everyone in our household Gods way, just as Jesus loved everyone in His day as our example.

God bless you all.
My name is OLIGOS

PS. We, including myself in the past, get caught up in all the many details that we fight over and argue and contend over, which are all necessary, but what we don't understand, and miss out on is all those small details add up to Gods tremendous plan of us all loving each other .
Everything rolled up in Gods package of love for all mankind - and most of us have missed it.

How hard is it to love - Gods way?? Next to impossible without Gods help.

 

[GTW27]

There is a season for all things under the sun. There is a season for you to be exactly where you are, and there is a season where you will turn the page and the hard things of Paul will be illuminated unto you. It is then and only then you will understand the old and the new. It is then you will enter a new season. And oh what a glorious season it will be. Remember these words.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

There is a season for all things under the sun. There is a season for you to be exactly where you are, and there is a season where you will turn the page and the hard things of Paul will be illuminated unto you. It is then and only then you will understand the old and the new. It is then you will enter a new season. And oh what a glorious season it will be. Remember these words.

Thank you.
I have already entered a new season of my life that God has brought me to, and I will continue serving in that season until God changes His plans for me.

Been there many time before, and if God chooses, I may even be there again serving Him in another season if it's His will. Jer. 29:11-14, "For I know the plans I have for you declares the LORD, plans for good and not evil, for a future and a hope.
Then you shall come and pray and seek me with all your heart, and I will be found by you declares the LORD

Thank you for you prophetic words.
My name is OLIGOS.