It's work of God; "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 6.29).
Is believing/faith a work ?
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That is a misunderstanding of what Christ said. His response was ironical. "The work of God" here means THE EXACT OPPOSITE of work. The Jews wanted to know what works God required from men in order to be saved (v 28). Jesus essentially said "NO WORKS will save you. But believing on the Lord Jesus Christ will save you". That is the "work" which God requires. A non-work.
It's the work of God to be drawn in faith. John 6.44 says: "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
The Bible is over 1000 pages. Do you spend an equal amount of time on all the rest of the words?
God and Christ draw ALL MEN to the Savior through the Gospel (John 12:32). But it is the Gospel (the Word of God) which generates faith and results in the New Birth (Rom 10:17; 1 Pet 1:23-25). The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16) but salvation is offered to all mankind freely (John 3:16,17).
There is NO WORK in believing God and believing on the Lord Jesus Christ: Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:4,5)
Believers often refer to a work of grace in the heart of the sinner: so vital as the Spirit works to apply the Word of God to the heart.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Noah could have sat and thought about building the ark, would thinking about building the ark get the ark built? No.
Naaman could have sat and thought about dipping in the Jodan river, would thinking about dipping cleanse him? No.
True. But the believer's faith is not a work, as the OP is trying to postulate. It is the Gospel and the Holy Spirit working together on the unregenerate to produce saving faith in Christ.
No Farouk has understanding and you're missing the mark. There is no irony in the Lord's statement which is entirely consistent with all His teaching. The scripture teaches that the lord works in us to will and to do. Without the indwelling of His Spirit, the Lord can't be known to us, just known about.
I think you're missing the point that belief is God's work in us, not something we could ever arrive at by ourselves.
If it's God's work, it's still a work, just not ours.
If this were true, everyone that read or heard the gospel message would respond in faith, but not everyone does. Salvation is God's work and according to His will, not ours.
Do you remember the moment that you believed the gospel and received Christ by faith through prayer?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Faith that matters has an object and its object is Jesus. I have trust (faith) in Jesus because he is trustworthy (faithful) to all the promises made from Eden onwards.
Faith without an object is superstition because it is based on fantasy...there is nothing solid to identify with. It relies on the imagination of men.....be it even various theological constructs.
Faith without an object is superstition because it is based on fantasy...there is nothing solid to identify with. It relies on the imagination of men.....be it even various theological constructs.
And Jesus already provided the reason for that in John 3: 19,20.
In that case there would be no commandment to obey the Gospel, would there?
Here is Gospel truth for you. You can look up the Scriptures for yourself:
1. God offers salvation to all.
2. Christ said that He would draw all men to Himself.
3. Christ therefore commanded that the Gospel be preached in all the world and to every creature.
4. Christ knew that all would not obey the Gospel.
5. However, the offer of salvation remains for all mankind.
Anyone who denies these basic facts makes God and Christ liars, and will be judged accordingly.
We do not arrive at saving faith "by ourselves". It is the work of the Gospel and the Holy Spirit working together. But in the end it is YOUR faith that counts and is "accounted for righteousness". Once again we go to Romans 4 (which is the Word of God meant to teach you something):
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Who is doing the believing? You
Who is imputing righteousness to you? God
Is faith contrasted with working in this passage? Absolutely
Is faith shown as God's work in this passage? Absolutely not.
At the time that Abraham believed God, he had done absolutely nothing to prove his faith. It was only much later (about 40 years later) that Abraham proved His faith by obeying God in the sacrifice of Isaac.
I've read the scriptures dozens of times and you haven't explained why the scriptures teach that you must be born again in order to believe, not believe in order to be born again.
When were you born again? If you don't remember the experience, then you probably weren't. It is a moment that changes your life completely and not something a person forgets anymore than they would their marriage.
I can tell you with all certainty that I've passed out of judgment. Do you have that assurance?
Uh, in pointing to Abraham, you prove election by God, not personal choice. I believe God because I know Him. I don't know Him because I believe Him.
Our belief comes from God.
23 Jesus said to him, “If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”
24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!” Mark 9:23-25
I suppose that you think that this man with the possessed son was exceptional, but the Scripture teaches the exact opposite.
You meet him who rejoices and does righteousness,
Who remembers You in Your ways.
You are indeed angry, for we have sinned—
In these ways we continue;
And we need to be saved
6 But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away.
7 And there is no one who calls on Your name,
Who stirs himself up to take hold of You;
For You have hidden Your face from us,
And have consumed us because of our iniquities.
Isaiah 64:5-7
Isaiah describes the natural state of man, incapable of doing anything to save himself.
This is God's answer to Isaiah's dilemma:
25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27
"Anyone who denies these basic facts makes God and Christ liars, and will be judged accordingly."
Don't worry about this foolishness. If you've believed the Lord, then you've passed out of judgment and into life. The only judgment of believers is one of reward.
9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:9-15
I have no fear of this judgment because I seek no other reward than Christ.
Do you understand these things?
You can't loose what you didn't earn and you didn't earn salvation because it is entirely of God. We contribute nothing, (but we can earn rewards.)
Mans religion will tell you that Salvation/Justification is a recompense for mans act of believing or faith. Thats Salvation by works. They're telling us that Justification before God is premise on mans action or deed of faith/believing and not Christ alone in His Person and Work!64
Well believing is a post salvation action that God causes the saved to do. This thread is denouncing the subtle false premise that believing is an act man does in order for God to save them. You understand ?
I understand that, however this thread is about how people believe that ones act of faith or believing, whether regenerate or unregenerate is the condition they meet in order for God to save them.
If you condition salvation on what you believe that God enabled you to do, thats works salvation.
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