Is believing/faith a work ?
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Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
An activity of the mind is a work ! If you condition your salvation on any activity you do, its works salvation and opposed to salvation by grace !
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Again, just thinking about building the ark would not get the ark built. It required doing to get the ark built as God commanded and Noah's faith moved and prepared whereas just thinking and doing nothing would be disobedience to God and Noah would not been saved from the flood.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
There are twenty-four hours in a day and over a thousand pages in the Bible. How much time to do you spend studying each individual word in the Bible?
Hi ETB, I'm going to start a thread and shine a red hot spot light on the things that must happen in the salvation process or journey, and the order in which they must happen. Hope you'll chime in so i can understand you better.
No, not at all. And I haven't said that God enabled me, but that He works in me and through me, just as the scriptures teach. God created us for good works, to walk in them, as He has prepared beforehand. The Catholics have a phrase for a "class" of sin that they call "sins of omission". These sins are not things that you do, but things that you fail to do.
17 Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin. James 4:16-17
No Christian is condemned for his sin, but the implication of James 4:16-17 is that we sin far more commonly in those things which we know we should do, but don't do.
Jesus taught this in these terms:
9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do. Luke 17:9-11
Now, you might say what does this have to do with the topic, but you can't separate what we do from what we believe.
James put it this way:
19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? James 2:19-20
James wasn't addressing the means of salvation, but the relationship between faith and life, the purpose of salvation in this life.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. Ephesians 2:9-10
I've written a long post already in this thread providing scriptural "proofs" that our belief is the consequence of receiving the Holy Spirit by faith. That our belief is the work of God. Farouk provided a quote from our Lord which states this, but in terms that could be understood in 2 ways:
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” John 6:27-29
You already know that this verse is saying God's work is that you believe Him. However, this is commonly misinterpreted to be "our work is to believe God." That isn't what the verse says, but the scriptures have this unique quality of dividing us according to our perceptions into two groups of people, those confident in themselves, and those reliant upon the Lord.
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
How we interpret scripture reveals "the thoughts and intents of the heart".
The gospels show us repeatedly the conflict between those confident in themselves, those the Lord called hypocrites, and the righteousness of faith. You don't find the Lord giving a lot of warnings to His called out ones, but He does specifically address the leaven of the Pharisees which is identified as hypocrisy.
Those hypocrites under the law were confident in their works, but our gospel is one of God's grace. Yet, we can be just as guilty of hypocrisy, being confident in our own belief, leaning on our own understanding, living unrighteously under the "umbrella " of "Christian liberty", and self deceived in our relationship with God.
We are unable to distinguish the source of our belief, whether it comes from us or from God, but the word of God does that for us, in the way of our perception and interpretation. It reveals "the thoughts and intent of the heart," but what that verse isn't saying is the purpose of that Revelation. In the context of the church, interpretation demonstrates who is "approved " by God. God already knows the heart so our interpretation isn't revealing anything to Him, but to us and primarily to examine our relationship to Him and to others.
Anyone can believe the scriptures if they conform their interpretation to their own sense of righteousness, but God, in the person of the Holy Spirit, His witness within us, convicts us of sin to establish that we are not righteous in ourselves. God works in us to believe Him through this conviction, but also gives us this assurance of His love for us through the gospel and the knowledge of the remission of sin through the blood of our Savior.
If we believe on our own we remain confident in our own righteousness and are self deceived. If we believe by His witness within us, we are convinced of our guilt and reliant upon His grace. Which of the two is justified before God?
Jesus answered this in a parable.
10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.” Luke 18:10-14
I suspect that you understand these things, but clearly many who post here just don't get it.
Let me make this absolutely clear with regard to my own testimony, as I post under my real name and not some fictional character. I know that there is nothing good in me other than what the Lord has placed in me. I know that I am by no means righteous by nature, but rest in His righteousness. I know that there was nothing I could ever do to earn "merit" or favor with God because I was created for the purpose of doing what is good and not what is evil.
My only righteousness is in Him and in Him is all my trust.
I do not believe that my biblical argument will convince those satisfied with their self righteousness. That is entirely the Lord's job, He alone is our Savior. Amen.
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Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Yes Faith is a work, its the act/deed of the man or women who has been #1 Made Righteous by the sole obedience of Jesus Christ Rom 5:19 and #2 who has been born again by the Spirit of God, for Faith is the fruit/work of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The word fruit karpos means:
(a) fruit, generally vegetable, sometimes animal, (b) met: fruit, deed, action, result, (c) profit, gain.
In fact the word also signifies:
Metaphorically, that which originates or comes
from something; an effect, result;
a. equivalent to ἔργον, work, act, deed:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
The word fruit karpos means:
(a) fruit, generally vegetable, sometimes animal, (b) met: fruit, deed, action, result, (c) profit, gain.
In fact the word also signifies:
Metaphorically, that which originates or comes
from something; an effect, result;
a. equivalent to ἔργον, work, act, deed:
An activity of the mind is a work ! If you condition your salvation on any activity you do, its works salvation and opposed to salvation by grace !
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
If you condition salvation on what you believe that God enabled you to do, thats works salvation.
Faith is a work but not of yourself it is a gift given to you as one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Haha! I thought of this verse immediately upon reading the OP, so I scrolled through to see if anyone would quote it. Nice!
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Again, Noah's thinking about building would actually do the work in building the ark???
Again, where does the BIBLE define obedience as "works based salvation" earning salvation??
This is an arbitrary definition based upon your theology, not on scripture, effectively an assertion, not a provable argument ( it is not supported by the teaching of the Apostle Paul, who is the secondary source of all biblical teaching on the subject of God's grace, Jesus being the principle source, the judge of all mankind (including Paul), and the basis of our judgment (His words.)
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
If the only way I can have faith is if God gifts it to me, then whose fault is it if I were faithless and lost?
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