Is believing/faith a work ?

[Ziggy]

The world is going wonky.... just sayin.

You notice the division between those who have faith in God and those who have faith in the world?
You can tell jus by listening to their words or how they react to things. Always negative or positive.
The distinction between good behavior and bad behavior is not hidden anymore.
And most times both sides claim they know God. That their side is right or the other side is wrong.
But you can tell the difference between those who truly believe and those who only say the words but have no conviction in the heart.

The very first "work" is to believe. You must believe in Him in whom you say you trust.
That means you have to "let go" of anything else that gets in the way of that belief.
That's not easy. A lot of people walk around in half faith half world.
They haven't walked on water yet. They haven't been put to the test. And a test it is indeed.
When you are tested you are tried. You have to put that belief in "Action" .
This action is a test of your faith. Faith needs exercise or we get lazy and forgetful and ungrateful and selfish.

Because of God's goodness and longsuffering and forgiveness, he has poured His grace upon us.
With this Grace God has planted (worked) a seed of faith in each of us.
God did the work of sowing the seed.
Because of this Grace and this seed of Faith given to us, we are able to continue His works through us.
These works alone, without Grace or Faith are fruitless and baren.
But the works that we do that come from Him working through us....
If we treat them as useless or senseless, they will be.

What are good works? It has nothing to do with rituals being better than the nexr guy.
Works of God working through you comes from His spirit working through you.
We are NOT the author of these works.

If you believe the good works that you do are your own then you are as King Nebuchadnezzar who believed it was he alone which built his great kingdom. That kind of "Pride" doesn't go unnotticed. You will be humbled.
And when that day comes you realize that nothing that you do is of you or by you when He is in you.

Will works save you? They're not meant to save you, you've already been saved. The works you have been given is to give hope to an ever darkening world. My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me. And we have been sent, because we believed.

When God created the Light, this was God's work he set before man to follow. God made the first move, His first work towards mankind.
When man reacted, some went towards the light and others fled away.
Those that chose the light no longer work their own works, but of Him that sent them.

Why do people rather argue about what they should or shouldn't do, instead of just go do it?

We're not here without God's grace that is #1. That is His mercy for our ignorance that he has afforded us.
The seed of Faith in which God planted (worked) it into our hearts, that is #2 His promise.
The #3rd is our own work or "free choice" to go towards the truth or flee from it, and once touching the light, our own works cease.
And finally #4 understanding that the works that we do are not our own. It is not with silver or gold that we share the gospel and our faith, through compassion and empathy, forgiveness and mercy, which are the works which we display to show God's grace towards all.

If you believe and have faith then the works that flow through you are not your own.
God never sleeps.
And when He moves you to do a good work, do not believe that this shall save you.
Your faith has already set you free.

World's going crazy...
HUGS

 

[Space_Karen]

The day you were reborn, was it all of God's doing?

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

If being saved or reborn were 100% God.

Then going to hell would also be 100% God?

Do you see the double standard you're creating by saying people can be punished for lack of faith.

But never rewarded for choosing to have faith.

If people are not rewarded for their faith, then why does the bible say the faithful will receive wealth and rewards in heaven?

 

[Johann]

If being saved or reborn were 100% God.

Then going to hell would also be 100% God?

Do you see the double standard you're creating by saying people can be punished for lack of faith.

But never rewarded for choosing to have faith.

No double standard here...did you have a part in being born from above?
EPHESIANS—NOTE ON 2:8 By grace refers to God’s favor upon those who
have transgressed his law and sinned against him. But grace may also be
understood as a “power” in these verses. God’s grace not only offers
salvation but also secures it. Saved refers to deliverance from God’s wrath
at the final judgment (Rom. 5:9); “by grace you have been saved” is
repeated from Eph. 2:5 for emphasis.

The verb form for “have been saved”
(Gk. sesōsmenoi, perfect tense) communicates that the Christian’s salvation
is fully secured. through faith. Faith is a confident trust and reliance upon
Christ Jesus and is the only means by which one can obtain salvation. this.
The Greek pronoun is neuter, while “grace” and “faith” are feminine.

Accordingly, “this” points to the whole process of “salvation by grace
through faith” as being the gift of God and not something that we can
accomplish ourselves.

This use of the neuter pronoun to take in the whole
of a complex idea is quite common in Greek (e.g., 6:1); its use here makes
it clear that faith, no less than grace, is a gift of God. Salvation, therefore, in
every respect, is not your own doing.

EPHESIANS—NOTE ON 2:9–10 Salvation is not by works. If it were, then
those who are saved would get the glory. created … for good works.
Salvation is not based on works, but the good works Christians do are the
result and consequence of God’s new creation work.

Salvation by grace is received only through faith in Christ, and not of works as if one could have
any merit (Rom. 3:28; Gal. 2:16). it is the gift of God.

Since believers were once dead in sin (v. 1), both
faith and the blessings it receives must come from God. lest any man should boast.

To reserve all glory
for God alone (1 Cor. 1:31).
2:10 God’s grace changes people so that they do the good works to which God predestined them (1:4).
created in Christ Jesus. The risen Lord was the first to rise from the dead with a resurrected body (Col.
1:18), and those united to Him are new creations (2 Cor. 5:17).

Where is my "double standards?"

 

[Space_Karen]

No double standard here...did you have a part in being born from above?
EPHESIANS—NOTE ON 2:8 By grace refers to God’s favor upon those who
have transgressed his law and sinned against him. But grace may also be
understood as a “power” in these verses. God’s grace not only offers
salvation but also secures it. Saved refers to deliverance from God’s wrath
at the final judgment (Rom. 5:9); “by grace you have been saved” is
repeated from Eph. 2:5 for emphasis.

The verb form for “have been saved”
(Gk. sesōsmenoi, perfect tense) communicates that the Christian’s salvation
is fully secured. through faith. Faith is a confident trust and reliance upon
Christ Jesus and is the only means by which one can obtain salvation. this.
The Greek pronoun is neuter, while “grace” and “faith” are feminine.

Accordingly, “this” points to the whole process of “salvation by grace
through faith” as being the gift of God and not something that we can
accomplish ourselves.

This use of the neuter pronoun to take in the whole
of a complex idea is quite common in Greek (e.g., 6:1); its use here makes
it clear that faith, no less than grace, is a gift of God. Salvation, therefore, in
every respect, is not your own doing.

EPHESIANS—NOTE ON 2:9–10 Salvation is not by works. If it were, then
those who are saved would get the glory. created … for good works.
Salvation is not based on works, but the good works Christians do are the
result and consequence of God’s new creation work.

Salvation by grace is received only through faith in Christ, and not of works as if one could have
any merit (Rom. 3:28; Gal. 2:16). it is the gift of God.

Since believers were once dead in sin (v. 1), both
faith and the blessings it receives must come from God. lest any man should boast.

To reserve all glory
for God alone (1 Cor. 1:31).
2:10 God’s grace changes people so that they do the good works to which God predestined them (1:4).
created in Christ Jesus. The risen Lord was the first to rise from the dead with a resurrected body (Col.
1:18), and those united to Him are new creations (2 Cor. 5:17).

Where is my "double standards?"

"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great"
-Matthew 5:12

How do true believers receive rewards in heaven for faith.

If they did nothing to earn it?

 

[Johann]

The world is going wonky.... just sayin.

You notice the division between those who have faith in God and those who have faith in the world?
You can tell jus by listening to their words or how they react to things. Always negative or positive.
The distinction between good behavior and bad behavior is not hidden anymore.
And most times both sides claim they know God. That their side is right or the other side is wrong.
But you can tell the difference between those who truly believe and those who only say the words but have no conviction in the heart.

The very first "work" is to believe. You must believe in Him in whom you say you trust.
That means you have to "let go" of anything else that gets in the way of that belief.
That's not easy. A lot of people walk around in half faith half world.
They haven't walked on water yet. They haven't been put to the test. And a test it is indeed.
When you are tested you are tried. You have to put that belief in "Action" .
This action is a test of your faith. Faith needs exercise or we get lazy and forgetful and ungrateful and selfish.

Because of God's goodness and longsuffering and forgiveness, he has poured His grace upon us.
With this Grace God has planted (worked) a seed of faith in each of us.
God did the work of sowing the seed.
Because of this Grace and this seed of Faith given to us, we are able to continue His works through us.
These works alone, without Grace or Faith are fruitless and baren.
But the works that we do that come from Him working through us....
If we treat them as useless or senseless, they will be.

What are good works? It has nothing to do with rituals being better than the nexr guy.
Works of God working through you comes from His spirit working through you.
We are NOT the author of these works.

If you believe the good works that you do are your own then you are as King Nebuchadnezzar who believed it was he alone which built his great kingdom. That kind of "Pride" doesn't go unnotticed. You will be humbled.
And when that day comes you realize that nothing that you do is of you or by you when He is in you.

Will works save you? They're not meant to save you, you've already been saved. The works you have been given is to give hope to an ever darkening world. My meat is to do the will of Him that sent me. And we have been sent, because we believed.

When God created the Light, this was God's work he set before man to follow. God made the first move, His first work towards mankind.
When man reacted, some went towards the light and others fled away.
Those that chose the light no longer work their own works, but of Him that sent them.

Why do people rather argue about what they should or shouldn't do, instead of just go do it?

We're not here without God's grace that is #1. That is His mercy for our ignorance that he has afforded us.
The seed of Faith in which God planted (worked) it into our hearts, that is #2 His promise.
The #3rd is our own work or "free choice" to go towards the truth or flee from it, and once touching the light, our own works cease.
And finally #4 understanding that the works that we do are not our own. It is not with silver or gold that we share the gospel and our faith, through compassion and empathy, forgiveness and mercy, which are the works which we display to show God's grace towards all.

If you believe and have faith then the works that flow through you are not your own.
God never sleeps.
And when He moves you to do a good work, do not believe that this shall save you.
Your faith has already set you free.

World's going crazy...
HUGS

Howdy Ziggy.
Can you send me a cup of hot coffee?

 

[Johann]

"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great"
-Matthew 5:12

How do true believers receive rewards in heaven for faith.

If they did nothing to earn it?

I think you are confused re your initial salvation/rebirth and sanctification.
In our rebirth/born again experience we were passive recipients.....

Eph_2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

.Abraham believed YHVH, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness...yet Abraham demonstrated his faith IN the sphere of good works by offering his only son on the altar

Eph_2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

God’s grace changes people so that they do the good works to which God predestined them (1:4).
created in Christ Jesus. The risen Lord was the first to rise from the dead with a resurrected body (Col.
1:18), and those united to Him are new creations (2 Cor. 5:17).


What you don't realize, sister, is that I am agreeing with you

 

[Ziggy]

"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great"
-Matthew 5:12

How do true believers receive rewards in heaven for faith.

If they did nothing to earn it?

God is our reward. Love, Life, Mercy, Goodness.. these ARE the rewards as well a Peace and Rest.
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Howdy Ziggy.
Can you send me a cup of hot coffee?

 

[CadyandZoe]

If you dont, dont sweat it. My statement is for anyone who bases their salvation on something they did, believing, repenting, obedience, water baptism, then they are trusting in their works.

First of all, the basis of our salvation is the finished work of Christ on the cross. What God does with that situation is up to him. He has decided to forgive us of our sins on that basis, which is again, up to him. Faith is not a condition of salvation; but rather, as our Apostle said, faith is evidence of our salvation. He argues in Romans 4, that in view of Abraham's faith, God accounted or credited Abraham with "δῐκαιοσῠ́νη" justifiedness" (translated "righteousness.") He argues that God is granting δῐκαιοσῠ́νη to all those who share the same faith as Abraham. δῐκαιοσῠ́νη is the state of being reconciled to God and having been reconciled we will be saved if we are "in Christ." To be 'in Christ" one must confess Jesus as Lord and become his disciple. If we are doing that, as Peter writes, we show "the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ."

 

[Johann]

View attachment 29375

Lol!
This is going to be a lovely cup of coffee, with words of wisdom.
J.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If you dont, dont sweat it. My statement is for anyone who bases their salvation on something they did, believing, repenting, obedience, water baptism, then they are trusting in their works.

Oh, and secondly, I don't agree with your premise that trusting in confession, repentance, and belief is the same as trusting in what we do for salvation. The alternative, which is both Biblical and typical IMHO, is trusting in God to keep his word and more specifically, trusting in Jesus Christ his son. We don't trust our own works, we trust in the one who saves us.

That is, seeking merit through faith is not the same thing as seeking mercy through faith.

 

[Ziggy]

A few weeks ago I was heading into my driveway when I saw a car parked on the side of the road a few yards from my property.
I got out of the car and 2 girls started walking towards me. I asked if they needed help. Seems they ran out of gas and their house was less than 1/2 mile away. (Look mom, I got neighbors)
So I took one of the Ladies to the gas station 5 miles away to fill a can to put in the car.
The car started right up and they said they had chickens and anytime I needed eggs just let them know. (Funny it was right about the time people really started complaining about the cost of eggs.. right? )

So I guess you could ask...
What did these 2 girls whom I never met have earned a little compassion and grace to help them out of that situation?
It wasn't anything they said or did, but rather the compassion and grace that God gives me to give to others.
We didn't earn God's love. He gave it to us freely, unconditionally.

Now I haven't been down to get any eggs. yet...
But the willingness to reciprocate was there. They didn't have to say anything, they could of just drove off and that would be that.
Would I have thought any less of the situation id they had not offered me eggs? The thought never entered my mind. I wasn't looking for a reward because I had already received it in my own wwillingness to be helpful.
This is what "obeying is such a hard word" , wanting to give freely because we have been given freely.
The reward is knowing you did the right thing. No worries, no frets, no regrets... a sense of peace.

You can't buy peace.. just ask Ukraine... the price is beyond this material world.
And that my friend is the greatest reward of all.

Jhn 14:27
Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

(I knew there was a reason for that encounter.. always a lesson to be learned, Amen?

Hugs

 

[Johann]

Oh, and secondly, I don't agree with your premise that trusting in confession, repentance, and belief is the same as trusting in what we do for salvation. The alternative, which is both Biblical and typical IMHO, is trusting in God to keep his word and more specifically, trusting in Jesus Christ his son. We don't trust our own works, we trust in the one who saves us.

That is, seeking merit through faith is not the same thing as seeking mercy through faith.

When the Bible speaks of “salvation” (Gk. sōtēria) in a spiritual sense, the
thought can embrace the whole broad range of God’s activity in rescuing
people from sin and restoring them to a right relationship with himself.

Because of this broad sense, we find that the noun “salvation,” and the verb
“save,” are used in the Bible with past, present, and future reference.

Thus, salvation may signify any or all of the blessings outlined in the chart.
While the subjective experience of being saved may have degrees and look
very different from person to person, the objective state of being saved is
categorical and absolute. From God’s perspective there is a definite point in
time when those who have trusted in Christ pass from death into life (1 John
3:14).

This, however, is not where salvation starts. From God’s vantage point
salvation begins with his election of individuals, which is his determination
beforehand that his saving purpose will be accomplished in them (John 6:37–
39, 44, 64–66; 8:47; 10:26; 15:16; Acts 13:48; 16:14; Romans 9; 1 John 4:19;
5:1). God then in due course brings people to himself by calling them to faith
in Christ (Rom. 8:30; 1 Cor. 1:9; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Pet. 2:9).

The Blessings of Salvation

Justification has been saved from the guilt of sin Eph. 2:8

Sanctification is being saved from the power of sin 1 Cor. 1:18

Glorification will be saved from the presence of sin Acts 15:11

God’s calling produces regeneration, which is the miraculous work of the
Holy Spirit in which a spiritually dead person is made alive in Christ (Ezek.
11:19–20; Matt. 19:28; John 3:3, 5, 7; Titus 3:5). The revived heart repents and
trusts Christ in saving faith as the only source of justification.

To be a Christian
means one has traded in his “polluted garment” of self-righteousness for the
perfect righteousness of Christ (Phil. 3:8–9; cf. Isa. 64:6). He has ceased
striving and now rests in the finished work of Christ—no longer depending on
personal accomplishments, religious pedigree, or good works for God’s
approval, but only on what Christ has accomplished on his behalf (Phil. 2:8–9).

A Christian understands with Paul that “it is no longer I who live, but Christ
who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of
God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Gal. 2:20). As regards Jesus
paying the penalty for our sins, the Christian believes that when Jesus said, “it
is finished” (John 19:30), it really was.

Because of this, “there is therefore now
no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 8:1), and they have
been “saved to the uttermost” (Heb. 7:25). A miraculous transformation has
taken place in which the believer has “passed from death to life” (John 5:24).
The Holy Spirit empowers the transformation from rebellious sinner to humble
worshiper, leading to “confidence for the day of judgment” (1 John 4:17).

 

[brightfame52]

Matthew 25 and the other Imperatives goes very much with our initial salvation.
In our initial salvation it was all God's

The day you were reborn, was it all of God's doing?

Eph_2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Appears to me you believe in Salvation by works, conditioned on man. May God have mercy on you friend.

 

[brightfame52]

First of all, the basis of our salvation is the finished work of Christ on the cross. What God does with that situation is up to him. He has decided to forgive us of our sins on that basis, which is again, up to him. Faith is not a condition of salvation; but rather, as our Apostle said, faith is evidence of our salvation. He argues in Romans 4, that in view of Abraham's faith, God accounted or credited Abraham with "δῐκαιοσῠ́νη" justifiedness" (translated "righteousness.") He argues that God is granting δῐκαιοσῠ́νη to all those who share the same faith as Abraham. δῐκαιοσῠ́νη is the state of being reconciled to God and having been reconciled we will be saved if we are "in Christ." To be 'in Christ" one must confess Jesus as Lord and become his disciple. If we are doing that, as Peter writes, we show "the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ."

Doesnt matter your spin on it, if you or anyone, myself included, conditions Salvation on something we do, its salvation by works, and that constitutes a repudiation of Salvation by Grace, and we are in danger of being under the curse of the law.

 

[brightfame52]

Oh, and secondly, I don't agree with your premise that trusting in confession, repentance, and belief is the same as trusting in what we do for salvation. The alternative, which is both Biblical and typical IMHO, is trusting in God to keep his word and more specifically, trusting in Jesus Christ his son. We don't trust our own works, we trust in the one who saves us.

That is, seeking merit through faith is not the same thing as seeking mercy through faith.

lol, Again if you or anyone else condition their salvation on something they do, like believing, repentance, water baptism, any little thing, that constitutes a departure from Salvation by Grace, and we are in danger of evidencing that we are under the curse of the Law.

 

[mailmandan]

The issue is how the term 'water' is used in Jn 3:5 and not how water is used in other contexts. In Jn 7:39 the context there clearly points out that water is being used figuratively. Proper interpretation does NOT allow taking a figurative meaning from one text then liberally apply that figurative meaning anywhere else you so choose.

To be born again is to be born from above. Plain ordinary H20 has no power to cause the new birth. We need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine, as in post #864.

Nothing in the context of Jn 3:5 has water mean anything other than literal water and Spirit meaning anything other than literal Spirit.

That is your biased opinion and we are not born again by plain ordinary H20. The natural man can only understand natural water.

The Spirit is already listed as an element of the new birth (born of the Spirit) therefore water would not be figurative for Spirit else the verse would read except a man be born of Spirit and of the Spirit. Water in Jn 3:5 does not figuratively mean Spirit no more than it does in Jn 3:23.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.

John 7:37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit.. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. *Hermeneutics.

As pointed out many, many times already when Jn 3:5 is compared with other born again verses those verses clarifiy even further, the BIble being its own best commentary, that water of Jn 3:5 referes to water baptism;

Absolutely false.

Jn 3:5-----------------Spirit +++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
1 Cor 12:13--------Spirit ++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>>>>>> in the body
Tts 3:5---------------Holy Ghost +++++washing of reg.>>>>>>>>> saved

All of these verses speak of that one birth (born again, Jn 3:3) that include two elements; literal Spirit and literal water

When the "water" of John 3:5 is compared and PROPERLY harmonized with other born again verses....

John 3:5-----------Spirit++++++++++++++water>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>in the kingdom - *no mention of baptism.*
John 7:38,39------Spirit++++++++++++++living water>>>>>>>>>>>those believing in Him would receive
John 4:10,14------drink++++++++++++++water/living water>>everlasting life

1 Corinthians 12:13-------Spirit++++++++++++++Spirit/baptized>>>>>>>>>into one body/drink into one Spirit
Titus 3:5----------not by works of righteousness which we have done++++++but according to His mercy He saved us>>>>>>>through the washing of regeneration/renewing of the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 5:26----------washing of water>>>>by the word and not by water baptism.

Neither Jesus or Paul were referring to baptismal regeneration but to cleansing, *which is not accomplished by plain ordinary H20. The washing/water refers to spiritual washing or purification of the soul, accomplished by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God at the moment of salvation. (Ephesians 5:26; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:23) The word "washing" in the Strong's Greek Concordance with Vine's Number 3067 - (Loutron) "a bath, a laver" is used *metaphorically of the word of God, as the instrument of spiritual cleansing,* Ephesians 5:26; and Titus 3:5, of the "washing of regeneration." *Hermeneutics.

The result of the new birth puts one in the kingdom.

The new birth is merely signified, but not procured in water baptism.

Yet one must do the will of the Father to be in the kingdom, Mt 7:21

Baptismal regeneration is not the will of the Father, but it's the will of false religions and cults, including Catholicism, Campbellism and Mormonism. What is God's will for us in receiving eternal life" John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. That fits with John 3:14-18 which is in context with John 3:5.

born again >>>>>>>>>>>>>. in the kingdom
do the will of God >>>>>>> in the kingdom

Too bad you don't understand how one becomes born again and God's will for entering the kingdom. Sadly, you have been duped by your church.

God has commanded men to be water baptized hence obeying that command is doing the will of God.

God commands men to be water baptized AFTER one believes and is saved. (Acts 10:43-48) There is a difference between doing God's will in order to become saved and doing God's will AFTER one is saved.

God has never commanded any kind of Spirit baptism to anyone to be in the kingdom.

Why would God command it when it's God who performs it. Your bias has led you to disregard Spirit baptism for water baptism.

Since there is just one way to be saved/enter the kingdom, then there is a connection between being born again and doing the will of the Father. 1 Pet 1:22-23 Peter directly connected "obeying the truth" to being born again/purified your souls.

Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?"
1 Peter 1:22 notice - "Purified your souls in obeying the truth" and notice in Acts 15:9 - "Purified their hearts by faith."

We purify our souls by faith when we obey the truth/obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

Nicodemus understood Christ was not talking about the physical birth for he understood the impossiblity of man entering his mother's womb to be born a second time, yet he did not understand the type of birth Christ spoke about that let man start over again anew.

Then why did Nicodemus ask the question, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” He also asked, "how can these things be?" Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things?

Yet Nicodemus, being a master of Israel, should have known about this new birth (Jn 3:10) for it was prophsied in the OT. The Prophet Ezekiel prophesied to the Jews in Eze 36:25-27:

He should have, but he didn't. Nicodemus would have understand about baptism/ceremonial washing, but he did not understand about the new birth, which is from above.

"I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

Clean water/washing of water by the word/living water. Not plain ordinary H20. Are you seeing the light yet?

Here water and Spirit are brought together to bring about that new birth in starting over anew. The Spirit is what transforms giving a new heart and spirit and water that will "cleanse you from all your impurities" which was not available under the law of Moses. Under the law of Moses there was no complete forgiveness of sins (Heb 10:1-4) as Christ's blood completely forgives sins under the NT.

Only living water can cleanse the heart from sin. Plain ordinary H20 can only wash the outside of the body from dirt.

Christ shed His blood that washes away sins in His death and it is by means of water baptism one is baptized into the death of Christ where that shed blood washes away sins. (Rom 6:3-5)

The blood of Christ does wash away our sins. Plain ordinary H20 does not. Through His blood" (Colossians 1:14) is a reference not limited to the fluid as if the blood has saving properties in it's chemistry and we literally contact it in the waters of baptism, but is an expression pointing to the totality of Christ's atoning work as a sacrifice for sin. The word "cross" is used similarly to refer to the whole atoning work of Christ on the cross (1 Corinthians 1:18; Galatians 6:12,14; Ephesians 2:16). We do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the water and Roman Catholics do not literally contact the blood of Christ in the wine.

In regards to Romans 6:3-4, Greek scholar AT Robertson explains - Baptism is the public proclamation of one's inward spiritual relation to Christ attained before the baptism. See on "Galatians 3:27" where it is like putting on an outward garment or uniform. Into his death (ei ton qanaton autou). So here "unto his death," "in relation to his death," which relation Paul proceeds to explain by the symbolism of the ordinance. The picture in baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death and burial and to our death to sin, forward to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave to walk on the other side of the baptismal grave. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. It is a tragedy that Paul's majestic picture here has been so blurred by controversy that some refuse to see it. It should be said also that a symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

Romans 6 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Romans 6, Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, verse-by-verse, paints word pictures to describe the New Testament

www.studylight.org

As long as you continue to confuse the symbol with the reality, you will remain confused. You and the CoC incorrectly conclude that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place in the waters of baptism, yet redemption, the forgiveness of sin is signified, yet not procured in the waters of baptism. Redemption is through His blood (and not through plain ordinary H20) and the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE before we are water baptized. Acts 10:43 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me. Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Therefore, the Biblical conclusion is that redemption, the forgiveness of sin takes place when we BELIEVE IN HIM before we are water baptized.

This "cleansing from impurities" would take place when Christ's NT covenant came, Jeremiah 31:31-34. And the new covenant would go forth from Jerusalem (Isa 2:3). In Acts 2 we have that new law with its new birth first going forth out of Jerusalem as prophesied. This "cleanse you from all your impurities", that is, this new birth that Nicodemus should have known about as prophesied by Ezekiel is fulfilled when one is water BAPTIZED for remission of sins>>cleansed from all your impurities. (Acts 2:38).

False and the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

Though the OT prophets prophesied to the Jews about this new law that would come forth out of Jerusalem that would give a new heart and spirit and would cleanse impurities, note that when that new law came out of Jerusalem (Acts 2) not every single Jew was universally nor unconditionlly given a new heart and spirit and cleansed of sins. Only those Jews who were compliant to that new laws conditions in obediently submitting to water BAPTISM (Acts 2:38) received a new heart and spirit and had their sins remitting whereby they could start over anew/born again. David prophesied that God would give the Gentiles to Christ as an inheritence (Psa 2:8) yet when that new law that gives a new heart and spirit and cleanses away sins came to the Gentiles in Acts 10, not every single Gentile was universally nor unconditionally given a new heart and spirit and cleansed of sins. Again, only those Gentiles that were compliant to that new law in submitting to water baptism (Acts 10:47-48) received a new heart and spirit and had sins cleansed away. Therefore the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord for remission of sins (Acts 2:38; Acts 10:47-48) is that new law where all sins are cleansed away whereby one starts over anew making water baptiem that 'like manner' way that all, Jew and Gentile, are saved/born again (Acts 15:11). Hence the prophecies from the OT about that new law bringing that new birth points to water baptism as to where this new birth takes place where sins are remitted.

False and in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

Let me know when you are ready to repent (change your mind) and believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of your salvation. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) The perverted water gospel of Campbellism cannot save you, but the gospel of Christ can. You need to place your faith in the Savior God and not the water god.

 

[mailmandan]

Do you believe in baptismal regeneration?

Roman Catholics certainly do. Campbellites typically prefer to use the term, "baptismal remission."

 

[Johann]

Appears to me you believe in Salvation by works, conditioned on man. May God have mercy on you friend.

My understanding of the Scriptures is biblical friend, you are a pacifist, diametrically opposed to what scriptures is teaching.
But I don't want to go into a theological discussion with you.
J.