Is believing/faith a work ?

[Ernest T. Bass]

Your opening line of your post is a lie because even the posts that you have been replying address your bullet points - but your tongue is unable to respond in righteousness, so you lie - just see the post to which you replied or the below.

Your illegal grammar wrongly divides the Word of God such as your bullet point above "--the required WORK in order to" where your heart's treasure (Matthew 15:16-19) wickedly separates "the work of God" from "believe" recorded in John 6:29!

The following carefully examines the Lord's words with legal grammar in Truth (John 14:6).

REGARDLESS OF THE SURROUNDING CONVERSATION IN JOHN CHAPTER 6, THE WORD OF GOD DEFINES THAT I BELIEVE IN HIM WHOM THE FATHER HAS SENT (JOHN 6:29) AS BEING THE WORK OF GOD; THEREFORE, GOD CONTROLS BELIEF/FAITH IN ME, AND THIS BLESSING DECLARED BY JESUS APPLIES TO EVERY BELIEVER IN ALL TIME!

After the people asked "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?" (John 6:28) of Jesus, then the Lord dispels the notion that man manipulates faith/belief with His response of "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29). Notice Jesus' removal of the work of men, so man does not manipulate faith/belief according to Jesus (John 6:29).

When you preach things like "The people asked what work is it that WE DO and not what work will God do for us. Jesus gave them a work to do: believe", then your heart (Matthew 15:16-19) adulterates the Word of God into "this is you working the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass).

In effect, you think "this is you controlling the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass).

To further paraphrase while maintaining your context, you promote "this is you controlling God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the thoughts of Ernest T. Bass' heart).

Your heart's treasure of "you controlling God" exalts yourself like the Most High. It is written "you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’" (Isaiah 14:13-14), and the passage is followed by the result of being thrust into the pit (Isaiah 14:15).

In Truth (John 14:6), Lord Jesus says God controls man for the Lord's proclamation of "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29) uses intentional grammatical structure resulting in "you believe in Him whom He has sent" being the sentence subject, and "is the work of God" is the predicate, and the word "is" is the verb in "is the work of God", and the direct object of the sentence is "the work of God", so the spiritual food that the Son of Man gives (John 6:27) is that God controls the "you believing in Him whom He has sent" subject of the sentence (John 6:29).

Every single one of us Christians believing in Jesus whom the Father has sent is fully the work of God (John 6:29), both the "you" and the "believing" in John 6:29 are caused/created/controlled by God, by God's grace for God's glory.

I proclaim to you that the Word of God says "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

NO SCRIPTURE STATES MAN HAS A FREE-WILL TO CHOOSE JESUS UNTO SALVATION, SO SELF-WILLED PERSONS REVILE KING JESUS (2 PETER 2:9-10) BY THEIR THOUGHTS THAT THEY CHOOSE JESUS DESPITE LORD JESUS SAYING "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) AND "COLOR=RED]I CHOSE YOU OUT OF THE WORLD[/COLOR]" (JOHN 15:19, INCLUDES SALVATION) AND "WHAT I SAY TO YOU I SAY TO ALL" (MARK 13:37).

See Lord Jesus Christ's sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

"Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

It says YOU BELIEVE hence Jesus gave THEM the work of beleiving to do. You are calling me a liar when you are the one who has closed you eyes to the truth and have taken out your Calvinistic butch knife butchering God's word into pieces.

I have shown from the Bible man is made in the image of God meaning there are traits God and men share that being both God and man can think and reason, both God and man have creativity both God and man have free will. If man has no free will then all the sins man commits is because God ordained man to sin then God unjustly unrighteously condemns man for the wrong God forced man to do by ordination.
You cite Jn 12:48 if man has no free will then man cannot choose to either accept or reject God therefore a man's acceptance or rejection of God is ordained by God upon man. Therefore if a man rejects God, that rejection has been forced upon him by God's ordination then YOU have God unjustly unrighteously judging that person for what God forced upon that man. This is the vile heresy of your Calvinism.

 

[Kermos]

You CONTINUE to take Jn 15:16 out of context and make erroneous, out of context applications to it as if man can only be saved if God chooses him when the context is about Christ choosing men to the office of an Apostles not about randomly, unconditionally chooisng men to salvation. Your out of context claims makes God a respecter of person and culpable for the lost when He is neither.

There is a command in the BIble to build an ark. Are you building an ark? If not why? The CONTEXT is God commanding Noah to build an ark, not every man building an ark. If we listen to you, then we must all be building arks for you would take this verse out of context in Genesis as you do with the one in John 15:16.

====================

If man has no free will that must mean God ordains ALL the things men do which would make verses as Matt 23:37 SENSELESS:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jesus WOULD but those Jews WOULD NOT shows that man DOES have a free will and can use that free will to go against what Christ wills for man.

If man has no free will as you claimand since Christ WOULD those Jews be under His protective wing yet you have Christ ordaining those non-free will Jews that they would NOT be under his wing hence you have Christ ordaining things that go AGAINST HIS OWN WILL......Jesus WOULD but ordained those Jews to WOULD NOT......SENSELESS.

If Calvinisms unconditional election of individuals before the world began were true, then that too makes Matt 23:37 SENSELESS.

If those Jews of Mt 23:37 were unconditionally elected by God before the world began to be saved, then why did they reject Christ, why would God ordain them to reject Christ?

On the other hand if those Jews were NOT elected by God before the world began, why would Jesus want them to be under His protective wing already knowing they were unconditionally pre-condemned before the world began??

What about the rich man in Mark 10:17ff?

If he was unconditionally elected by God before the world began to have eternal life, why did he walk away reecting eternal life offered him and remained lost?
If he was NOT elected by God before the world began to have eternal life why did Jesus taunt him with giving him eternal life already knowing he could not have it??

If Calvinism's total depravity were true then that rich man would have been totally depraved being lost and "unregenerate". Yet while unregenrate and totally depraved he still observed God's law from his youth up and was seeking eternal life neither which would be possible of an 'unregenerate", totally depraved person. And if he was not chosen by God before the world began then why did Jesus LOVE HIM and not HATE him as God supposedly hates the 'unelected' as Esau as Calvinism claims?


If salvation were by faith alone why did Jesus give the man a WORK to do in order to receive eternal life, Mk 10:21....One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
We know he observed God's law from his youth up but there was something still LACKING, there was more WORK he needed to do in addition to what he was already doing in obeying God's law and that was to sell his goods, give to the poor and take up the cross and follow Christ. Why didn't Christ say God would do this work for you while you do nothing.....if God does all the work while man sits idle?

Your first sentence is an untruth, yet Lord Jesus Christ is the Truth (John 14:6) who says "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so when the Truth says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), then these wonderful blessings of God recorded in John 15 are to all believers in all time just as the Truth (John 14:6) declares. You convey the opposite of the Truth.

Let's return to the post to which you replied because you just tried to blow passed it.

No verse says man lacks free will.

The term free-will indicates your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

Essentially, you are saying your will is autonomous from God; in other words, God does not control your will.

You say you control your will all by yourself. Now, see the word "self" in "yourself".

Free-will is a misnomer of sorts since the only reference to free-will is as an illusory thing by the Apostle Paul (Philemon 1:14), so let's use a scriptural term used by the Apostle Peter, which is the term "self-will" (2 Peter 2:9-10). A self-willed person represents an autonomous willed person.

You have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10), but your self-will is incapable of choosing Jesus because Lord Jesus says you are incapable of perceiving Jesus properly without being born of God (John 3:3).

No scripture states man has a free-will capable of choosing Jesus unto being saved from the wrath of God.

We find that self-willed persons daringly revile the majesty of King Jesus (2 Peter 2:9-10), after all, the Apostle wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your statement is deception because the Word of God says powerfully:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Christ defines and makes us Christians.

The Apostle Paul wrote that a Christian's will is bound to God Almighty (Philippians 2:13), and this is a wonderful blessing!

Your statement demonstrates your lack of understanding.

See Lord Jesus Christ's sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

 

[Gottservant]

You still dont get it, this isnt about post salvation works, this is about if someone conditions their salvation on something they do, meaning that God doesnt save you until you do something, meet a condition like believing, repentance, water baptism etc, that constitutes salvation by works, and they are in danger of being under the curse of the law.

Yet a believer will brave the curse of the Law, if by some means strength over the Law can be obtained.

You are promoting chastity, to someone who is already married.

Salvation needs to be free of works, without being free of works being a substitute for Grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Yet a believer will brave the curse of the Law, if by some means strength over the Law can be obtained.

You are promoting chastity, to someone who is already married.

Salvation needs to be free of works, without being free of works being a substitute for Grace.

You still dont get it.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Your first sentence is an untruth, yet Lord Jesus Christ is the Truth (John 14:6) who says "What I say to you I say to all" (Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so when the Truth says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation), then these wonderful blessings of God recorded in John 15 are to all believers in all time just as the Truth (John 14:6) declares. You convey the opposite of the Truth.

Let's return to the post to which you replied because you just tried to blow passed it.



The term free-will indicates your will is autonomous from God's will because your will is free (detached, disassociated, separate, unencumbered, disentangled, not dependent, not obligated, not indebted) with regard to God.

Essentially, you are saying your will is autonomous from God; in other words, God does not control your will.

You say you control your will all by yourself. Now, see the word "self" in "yourself".

Free-will is a misnomer of sorts since the only reference to free-will is as an illusory thing by the Apostle Paul (Philemon 1:14), so let's use a scriptural term used by the Apostle Peter, which is the term "self-will" (2 Peter 2:9-10). A self-willed person represents an autonomous willed person.

You have a self-will (2 Peter 2:9-10), but your self-will is incapable of choosing Jesus because Lord Jesus says you are incapable of perceiving Jesus properly without being born of God (John 3:3).

No scripture states man has a free-will capable of choosing Jesus unto being saved from the wrath of God.

We find that self-willed persons daringly revile the majesty of King Jesus (2 Peter 2:9-10), after all, the Apostle wrote "the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority. Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties" (2 Peter 2:9-10).

Your statement is deception because the Word of God says powerfully:

• "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:16), so God chooses people to be friends (John 15:15 , the prior verse) and to believe (John 6:29) and to be born again (John 3:3-8) and for righteous works (John 3:21, John 15:5) and to repent (Matthew 11:25) and to love (John 13:34) and unto salvation (John 15:19 the same passage).
• "I chose you out of the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 15:19, includes salvation), so God chooses people unto salvation.
• "What I say to you I say to all" (Lord Jesus Christ, Mark 13:37 - Jesus had taken the Apostles Peter, Andrew, James, and John aside in private and said this), so all the blessings of God mentioned above are to all believers in all time.

Christ defines and makes us Christians.

The Apostle Paul wrote that a Christian's will is bound to God Almighty (Philippians 2:13), and this is a wonderful blessing!

Your statement demonstrates your lack of understanding.

See Lord Jesus Christ's sayings "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day" (John 12:48).

Context matters and you keep ignoring the context. As shown you many times, in the context of Jn 15 Jesus was speaking to His Apostles that He chose them to that office they did not choose themselves. Calvinists CONTINUE to take this verse out of context in order to read their false idea of unconditional election of individuals....which makes Godculpable for the uncosen lost.

 

[Gottservant]

You still dont get it.

No, you don't need substitute Grace.

Grace is the freedom of spirit and inspiration of work in one.

You should freely receive and be freely inspired.

I repented of my sin when I was ten and rejoiced at heart that I was free, then I was inspired to write proverbs, among other things and I completely enjoyed developing that talent.

When did you receive Grace and what were you inspired to do?

 

[brightfame52]

No, you don't need substitute Grace.

Grace is the freedom of spirit and inspiration of work in one.

You should freely receive and be freely inspired.

I repented of my sin when I was ten and rejoiced at heart that I was free, then I was inspired to write proverbs, among other things and I completely enjoyed developing that talent.

When did you receive Grace and what were you inspired to do?

I dont know what you talking about friend.

 

[Gottservant]

I dont know what you talking about friend.

Cause and effect.

Grace is the cause, but the effect is a work.

"Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith by my works" (James 2:18, from memory)

 

[brightfame52]

Cause and effect.

Grace is the cause, but the effect is a work.

"Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith by my works" (James 2:18, from memory)

You really into works

 

[brightfame52]

Cause and effect.

Grace is the cause, but the effect is a work.

"Show me your faith without works, and I will show you faith by my works" (James 2:18, from memory)

You interested in being shown Christs Works ?

 

[Gottservant]

You interested in being shown Christs Works ?

That's a good question: there is Wisdom in showing more of Christ's Grace, than the ordinary man would say was enough.

But again, you need to do that with the Grace We have already been shown - the words that Jesus spoke, were not "trust Me, you don't need the world's works anymore"

If you have even one word of Jesus, that is not already in the Bible, you have a raptured audience in me!

 

[brightfame52]

That's a good question: there is Wisdom in showing more of Christ's Grace, than the ordinary man would say was enough.

But again, you need to do that with the Grace We have already been shown - the words that Jesus spoke, were not "trust Me, you don't need the world's works anymore"

If you have even one word of Jesus, that is not already in the Bible, you have a raptured audience in me!

So do you understand that if one conditions their salvation on something they do, then that constitutes salvation by their works and it opposes salvation by grace ?

 

[Kermos]

Phil 2:12-13
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

The context says those Philippians were obedient. God is working in those who obey Him as seen by their obedience to Him and not in those who disobey Him. And Paul clearly tells them to WORK out your own salvation just exactly as Christ said to work for the spiritual food that endures unto everlasting life. Paul and Christ are in 100# agreement...no obedient works = no salvation.

Jn 6:28-29
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Kermos:
this is the work of God, that you do nothing while God does all the work for you.

How YOU force your ideas into Jn 6:29 makes all the commands given to man to believe senseless since GOd does the work of beliving for man, makes God a respecter of persons for whom He does this work against those He does not do this work, makes God culpable for the faithless.

Hence it is the ideas of Calvinism that makes God evil, sadistic, unjust, unloving, unholy...Calvinism tries to force a character upon God that God does not possess in giving commands that man cannot possible obey then eternally punishing man for lack of obedience for failing to do the impossible. You claim man has no free will therefore all the evil man does if must be ordained by God therefore making God culpable for all evil that occurs.

AGAIN, Jn 6:27 Jesus made WORK NECESSARY, ESSENTIAL in order for one to be given everlasting life thereby putting nails in the coffin of faith onlyism. How many more nails must be drivin into that faith only coffin before men accept the words of Jesus rather than the words of false teachers?

@Ernest T. Bass, instead of addressing the post, you persist in that (1) you ignore Philippians 2:12 relation to Philippians 2:13 where God works the will of believers to obey, (2) you think "good" fruit by you is caused by you, yet we Christians know our good fruit is caused by God because it is fruit of the Spirit, (3) you confuse what scripture states such as in Hebrews 3:12, and (4) you didn't know why the Old Testament was written. (post in this thread), and there is some about perseverance of the saints by God in the post, too.

the contradiction illuminated between "this is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the Word of God Jesus Christ, John 6:29) contrasted against "this is you working the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (the word of Ernest T. Bass) post in this thread exhibits your traditions of men fail (Matthew 15:9).

this post preludes the examination of your post in 5 segments:

• SEGMENT 1: your heart adulterates Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) into the words of Ernest T. Bass "you of the office of an Apostle did not choose Me, but I chose you for the office of an Apostle only".
• SEGMENT 2: Commands show who is of who or what, and people in Old Testament times were unable to keep the commandments for the Apostle Peter declared "Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?" (Acts 15:10).
• SEGMENT 3: God works believers repentance.
• SEGMENT 4: the first state of being for people is opposition against God.
• SEGMENT 5: you wickedly call God "insane", "cruel", "sadistic", and "evil" - EVEN "EVIL" - yet God loves the children of God soooooo much that God exclusively saves us incapable wretches from the wrath of God.

you are shown that "free-will" is scripturally a misnomer for autonomous will which is properly identified as "self-will" in scripture, and the Spiritual implications are explicit (post in this thread).

 

[Gottservant]

So do you understand that if one conditions their salvation on something they do, then that constitutes salvation by their works and it opposes salvation by grace ?

Yes, and do you understand that if one accepts the sacrifice made for them and does nothing, the Mercy of God is tested?

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, and do you understand that if one accepts the sacrifice made for them and does nothing, the Mercy of God is tested?

I understand that you are promoting salvation by your works, something you do.

 

[Gottservant]

I understand that you are promoting salvation by your works, something you do.

You are putting the cart before the horse.

 

[brightfame52]

You are putting the cart before the horse.

You are putting man before God!

 

[Gottservant]

You are putting man before God!

No, I am affirming God, by adding the works of Man to Him.

You've got to get rid of this "solo Christian ethic", Jesus said "he who climbs up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber" - you are using "Salvation" to get around asking yourself what now inspires you, and making the work of it a priority.

You might get time, celebrating Salvation, but you won't get maturity, without a work of some kind.

Don't let the Devil get the upper hand, show him what you can do without him (in the power of God).

 

[Gottservant]

You should bear in mind, a part of your work, has already been completed by the Holy Spirit.

When you welcomed the conviction of the Holy Spirit in your life, the Holy Spirit set about starting your works.

The time is now!

 

[brightfame52]

See Faith is in contrast to works only when its viewed correctly in Gods Salvation package,

That is, Faith/Believing is not a action of the natural man, the unregenerate man that God views in them in order to save or justify them. However Faith or Believing is the Gift of God by which by Grace reigning, men are caused to believe in Christ or call upon His Name. Believing is the manifestation of the Sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in those whom God has chosen and predestinated to believe the Gospel of their Salvation, Acts 13:48

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 34