Is faith necessary?

[elysian]

Suppose you commit a crime and I take the blame for you. I am punished, you're saved. My sacrifice has saved you, period. Even if you hate me, have no faith in me, you're still saved by my sacrifice.

And Jesus died for our sins....

 

[aspen]

Suppose you commit a crime and I take the blame for you. I am punished, you're saved. My sacrifice has saved you, period. Even if you hate me, have no faith in me, you're still saved by my sacrifice.

And Jesus died for our sins....

saved from what? Jail? Death?

Not sure I could live with the guilt of allowing you to suffer for my crime.

In any case, I am not sure what your point is?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, but the two situations are not entirely equivalent. Jesus said there was one unforgiveable sin. His sacrifice does not, cannot, cover that sin. For the moment I will leave the suspense hanging.

 

[jiggyfly]

Yes, but the two situations are not entirely equivalent. Jesus said there was one unforgiveable sin. His sacrifice does not, cannot, cover that sin. For the moment I will leave the suspense hanging.

What is that sin and what does it entail?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What is that sin and what does it entail?

The sin is rejecting the light of the good news that all men are forgiven. Christ put it in these words:

Whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come. Matthew 12:32​

John put it in these words:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:18-20​

God has forgiven all men. But if they refuse to come to the light, how can he save them? It is impossible. He will justly banish them to outer darkness for refusing the light.

 

[jiggyfly]

The sin is rejecting the light of the good news that all men are forgiven. Christ put it in these words:

Whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come. Matthew 12:32​

John put it in these words:

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:18-20​

God has forgiven all men. But if they refuse to come to the light, how can he save them? It is impossible. He will justly banish them to outer darkness for refusing the light.

Yes I agree, but what is impossible for God? He will banish them until they bow and confess Him as Lord.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes I agree, but what is impossible for God? He will banish them until they bow and confess Him as Lord.

In terms of omnipotence nothing is impossible for God. But isn't God more than omnipotence? Doesn't his righteousness and holiness bind him, and limit what he can do? Can God sin? Of course not. That is impossible. Can God dwell with unholiness? Impossible. Christ's righteousness is sufficient for all men. But no man can be sanctified without faith. Without holiness, no man will see the Lord. Yes, all who rejected him will see him when they appear before him on bowed bow knee in acknowledgment that he is indeed the Lord who banishes them to eternal darkness.

 

[jiggyfly]

In terms of omnipotence nothing is impossible for God. But isn't God more than omnipotence? Doesn't his righteousness and holiness bind him, and limit what he can do? Can God sin? Of course not. That is impossible. Can God dwell with unholiness? Impossible. Christ's righteousness is sufficient for all men. But no man can be sanctified without faith. Without holiness, no man will see the Lord. Yes, all who rejected him will see him when they appear before him on bowed bow knee in acknowledgment that he is indeed the Lord who banishes them to eternal darkness.

A word study of alam, olam, aion and aionios would help give some light.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A word study of alam, olam, aion and aionios would help give some light.

Thanks. I'm aware how they differ. I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[jiggyfly]

Thanks. I'm aware how they differ. I'm not sure what your point is.

Many think of them as meaning forever.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Many think of them as meaning forever.

Sometimes some of them do. What happens when the vanishing point is the cessation of time as we know it?

 

[Hollyrock]

Suppose you commit a crime and I take the blame for you. I am punished, you're saved. My sacrifice has saved you, period. Even if you hate me, have no faith in me, you're still saved by my sacrifice.

And Jesus died for our sins....

I think what you're saying is a little different from actual salvation. With salvation the person has to repent of his sins, believe and confess that Jesus is the Son of God and that He rose from the dead, only then are they saved. Also faith is essential, for it is impossible to please God without it, nor are we able to enter into His rest without it.

 

[Prentis]

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

Unless we walk by faith, we are still in unbelief... God is not pleased with this, as the scriptures reveal.

 

[jiggyfly]

Sometimes some of them do. What happens when the vanishing point is the cessation of time as we know it?

Well not always are they used in reference to time or quantity, they can also be used in reference to quality.