Sin Consciousness : is the Carnal Mind = wrong Belief

[Peterlag]

That's not true.

1.) The fact is.. "the old man of SIN, has been Crucified with Christ", so, Paul tells us that because it has, then "reckon it dead".

You are not doing that, @Peterlag.. you are stating that your old man is alive and well, and sinning.

And that old man is not your body, as "the body is dead because of Sin"..

So, the Born Again believer, is nothing less, and the "Old man of sin, is no part of them"..

2.) Where a believer has an issue, is with wrong desires while "under Grace", and those are related to "" sin consciousness"

Sin consciousness is empowered by trying to do in the flesh what has already been accomplished on the Cross.

Paul teaches that "I DIE DAILY" and that means i never let my mind return to "im trying not to sin"...or anything related to trying to save myself....... or Romans 9, "that which i would do"..."I cant"..

3.) He keeps that AWAY by : Hebrews 13:9

He has established his HEART, with GRACE.. So, that means he doe not let His MIND become "flesh", which is. to believe that you are a sinner, sinning., when in fact the Old man of sin is dead, crucified with Christ.

I write it this way...

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Regarding the Born again, Jesus is their sanctification.

1 Corinthians 1:30

"""But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption""

And there is a fourth message of the Gospel.

D) Welcome to: Hope.

Col 1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled (22) in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— (23) if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[Behold]

And there is a fourth message of the Gospel.

D) Welcome to: Hope.

Col 1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled (22) in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— (23) if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Paul said you can move from that Hope, but that is not the same as "dead faith", that James talks about.

In both cases, that happens in your mind, and it has nothing to do with the Born Again Spirit.

Paul taches that you can become a "castaway" but that is not to be lost again/separated from God again.

One of Paul's converts was DEMAS and he's in Heaven right now.
He left the ministry, and went back into the world, and that can happen.
Paul wrote that he went back into the world because He "love this present world".
Paul never said....>"and he's lost"..
He wasn't.
He was backslidden. or "dead faith"... or "Lukewarm".. As Jesus describes some.

Ive noticed over the years that a lot of singers, start in the Church, and they become very popular, and then they go into the world and become a pop star, having originally started their "career"... "singing about Jesus" for 20 yrs.

Amy Grant comes to mind..

Very common.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Paul said you can move from that Hope, but that is not the same as "dead faith", that James talks about.

In both cases, that happens in your mind, and it has nothing to do with the Born Again Spirit.

Paul taches that you can become a "castaway" but that is not to be lost again/separated from God again.

One of Paul's converts was DEMAS and he's in Heaven right now.
He left the ministry, and went back into the world, and that can happen.
Paul wrote that he went back into the world because He "love this present world".
Paul never said....>"and he's lost"..
He wasn't.
He was backslidden. or "dead faith"... or "Lukewarm".. As Jesus describes some.

Ive noticed over the years that a lot of singers, start in the Church, and they become very popular, and then they go into the world and become a pop star, having originally started their "career"... "singing about Jesus" for 20 yrs.

Amy Grant comes to mind..

Very common.

I've known Christians to become paranoid. Yeah, P A R A N O I D.

 

[Behold]

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ.

The Spiritual part , the born again "part", IS The Christian.... so, that is not the part that is "crucified".

Its the "old man of sin" "the flesh"... that is the crucified part, that we are to '"reckon dead".

 

[quietthinker]

I dont make assumptions.
I only Teach Paul's Theology/Doctrine.

Ephesians 2:6 says, . . And God" hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places IN= Christ Jesus""

See @quietthinker .... when a person is born again they become "one with God" "in Christ".

And they become .."The Temple of the HOLY Spirit.",.. and "Christ IS that Spirit".

So, the born again are "in Christ" and "Christ IN YOU, the hope of Glory".....

That spiritual union is explained by Paul as becoming a '" New Creation" "In Christ".

You don't make assumptions Behold? ....hmmmm
You have not understood my reply to your statement in post #5 because your statement is a loaded assumption yet you are not aware of it.

I will ask this; who is in Adam or rather, how many are in Adam? Romans 5 makes it clear. Romans 5 is also clear on who and how many are in Christ.

 

[quietthinker]

What? That's no exclusive assumption, it's all over your Bible! Dont you read your Bible?

Check out Romans 5.....it is clear. Paul makes the point five times between vs 15-19.....just so you don't miss it.

 

[Behold]

You don't make assumptions Behold? ....hmmmm

No assumptions necessary.

I will ask this; who is in Adam or rather, how many are in Adam?

all who are (born) are in 1st Adam.

The only way to get out of 1st Adam .. is for 2nd Adam to die for your sin, and you receive "The Gift of Salvation".

1st Adam caused the fall of us all.

2nd Adam (Jesus) is our Salvation who restores us into Spiritual Union with God..

This can be explained as..>>"born again by the Spirit of God".

 

[quietthinker]

No assumptions necessary.



all who are (born) are in 1st Adam.

The only way to get out of 1st Adam .. is for 2nd Adam to die for your sin, and you receive "The Gift of Salvation".

1st Adam caused the fall of us all.

2nd Adam (Jesus) is our Salvation who restores us into Spiritual Union with God..

This can be explained as..>>"born again by the Spirit of God".

Just as all are in Adam, so all are in Christ. This is Paul's point. (reread it...chew on it)...Romans 5
Now to your assumption which I said you are not aware of. You say that only born again Christians are in Christ (post #1)

 

[MA2444]

I can tell you what it feels like to go to Sodom and Gomorrah, and i can describe it, and you can imagine it.

But once you see it, then you'll actually know for the first time something about God that most don't know and that those sodomite where there, wish they didn't know.

This is why i try to sting people who post Threads that try to cast doubt on the Bible.
See, its better that i do it, and they really dont know why.

That's a good answer! But is the imagination....just the imagination? As in, more or less useless? I dont think so. Maybe we just have our iagination named poorly. Perhaps it's one of our spiritual senses?

(I think scripture even talks about the imagination. Quite a bit in fact. Let's say, a carpentar wants to build a chair to sit on. He sit down (on the floor!) and think about it. He then uses his imagination like a portal and goes through it, and receives a picture of the chair. Then he goes back into his body and stands up and builds the chair according to the picture!

 

[Peterlag]

The Spiritual part , the born again "part", IS The Christian.... so, that is not the part that is "crucified".

Its the "old man of sin" "the flesh"... that is the crucified part, that we are to '"reckon dead".

I think we are on the same page. We differ just a bit on what being "in Christ" means. Every Christian has "Christ in" them. But not every Christian is walking "In Christ."

 

[Behold]

Just as all are in Adam, so all are in Christ

No one is "in Christ" until they do this.. @quietthinker

Jesus said.. ."you must be born again".. ,.and THEN, and only then are you "in Christ"..

""God took your sin and my sin and laid them all on the Sinless Jesus...

He knew no sin, He did no sin and in Him, is no sin...

And God unleashed the full force of His divine retribution, and punishment, and judgement against all sins.. = but in the Body of Jesus Christ...

And Jesus absorbed all of God's Anger and judgement for all of our sins that He was bearing on our behalf... until there is nothing left...

And....then Jesus shouted = "FINISHED"..."" And then later rose from the dead to PROVE IT.


1.) """God hath made JESUS.... to be SIN FOR US"..""""

2.) ""Jesus is the ONE TIME.... .Eternal Sacrifice .. for sin"...


Welcome to : "The Preaching of the Cross", that is "The Gospel of the Grace of God".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why can God forgive us? What is the basis?

God forgives us....... through/because of....... Jesus dying for our sin.

So, the Reason that God forgives us, is because Jesus has died for our sin..

John 3:16... "for God so love the WORLD that He GAVE Jesus"... to the Cross to die for the sin of the World.

This is 2 Corinthians 5:19 & John 3:17

Now a "Universalist" will tell you...>"see there, everyone is saved".. but no they are not..

See, Jesus dying for us all, is not everyone being Saved.
Its only the OFFER that has been completed for us all.. (World) .

To GET IT... to receive This Salvation that Jesus has completed on the Cross, we have to give God our Faith in Christ.

He must have this, FIRST, before He will then forgive our sin, and then give us the new birth.

So, the basis for God to forgive us, is Christ's Sacrifice on The Cross

Why does He do it?

1.) Its because we believed in Jesus....and our "faith is counted by God" on our behalf.. to then give us His "Gift of Righteousness"..

After that is completed, we are FORGIVEN...

2.) Then: = God births our spirit as born again... INTO..... "In Christ" as "One with God'..

Why does God have to forgive us first... through Christ's Blood and death, before He can birth our Spirit by His Holy Spirit?

Its because until we are forgiven all sin, or "made free from sin"... God can't join Himself to us, Spiritually.

But once God takes the blood and death of Jesus and forgives us... then now being forgiven, God can Join Himself to us in "Spiritual Union"..

And that is to become "In Christ".. as "One with God"... "BORN Again.

Amen.

Adam chose to rebel and reject God.

Salvation comes the same way

But as many as have received him, to THEM he gave the right to be born again.

 

[MA2444]

I think we are on the same page. We differ just a bit on what being "in Christ" means. Every Christian has "Christ in" them. But not every Christian is walking "In Christ."

I agree with you. So I think the point that was made that hasnt been said is that, saying the sinners prayer doesnt mean that one is in Christ yet or abiding in Christ.

Maybe it's at the Baptism of the Holy Spirit where we come into Christ? Then we are born again?

Like a race. Anybody can go up by the line and say I'm racing in this race too and stand outside the track and are still when the runners take off...How can they possibly win the race? They didnt even run with them!

 

[Behold]

Amen.

Adam chose to rebel and reject God.

Salvation comes the same way

But as many as have received him, to THEM he gave the right to be born again.

Thats it.

"BELIEVE and RECEIVE".

God does not make us do either of Those, but He certainly offers us Jesus to all who will believe.

And He send His messengers to tell them what to believer.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree with you. So I think the point that was made that hasnt been said is that, saying the sinners prayer doesnt mean that one is in Christ yet or abiding in Christ.

Maybe it's at the Baptism of the Holy Spirit where we come into Christ? Then we are born again?

Like a race. Anybody can go up by the line and say I'm racing in this race too and stand outside the track and are still when the runners take off...How can they possibly win the race? They didnt even run with them!

It depends on what "the sinners prayer" is.

People call it a sinners prayer, and if people are just repeating words with no faith. Then it has no power

But The tax collector made a sinners prayer according to Jesus, and he went home justified.

 

[MA2444]

It depends on what "the sinners prayer" is.

People call it a sinners prayer, and if people are just repeating words with no faith. Then it has no power

But The tax collector made a sinners prayer according to Jesus, and he went home justified.

Yep. Yep. We have to receive the gift. That means putting your trust in God at that moment, and continuing in the future if one has given their life to Christ, then it doesnt belong to us any more! So the man who goes to church for once in 5 years and hears the word and the Lord touches his heart so he receives the altar call and says the sinners prayer has had a divine moment of truth within his heart. So he goes home and does some more drugs and committs fornication that night. He lives life the same as he did before. Is this man born again? I highly doubt it. On his way home from church his hardened heart talks him out of cancelling his date tonight with that hot girl. She is so sweet he says...And so even if he did stand in church that morning and give his life to the Lord, he then almost immediately turned around and walked away from the Lord. And the Lord knew he would because he is a young man and full of oats, right? So did the man really get born again in church? Why would he? The Lord will not be mocked.

All through the entire Bible, new & old testaments, the offer is always the same that comes with a gift. If my People will...then God will respond with blessings and anointings and Baptisms of the spirit. First we have to show that we are serious about Him.

That's why I think we dont get born again in spirit until after we have been showing ourselves to be serious. Then one day like a surprise, God just dumps the Holy Spirit on you! That is the sign of His acceptance of you. I like to think about it like, it is a resume of trust to the Lord. If my people will...get the sin out of their lives! Most people have their favorite sins, even christians. Only a few take it that seriously.

 

[Behold]

So did the man really get born again in church?

Hummm.

Well, consider that some Christians have been confessing sin, for the last 50 yrs, since they were saved...

So, at least 95% of those sins were willfully committed, unless the believer needs to lie and say "" it was 50 yrs of accidental sin".

So, they have committed willfully, 50 yrs of "confessing sins"..

Are they saved?
Were they really born again?

See, you can't judge a person's Salvation, based on their "FRUIT".......but you can judge their MENTAL relationship to the word of God and the Cross of Christ...based on their Theology.

In fact that is how you "Spot a Heretic"... Luke 11:35

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yep. Yep. We have to receive the gift. That means putting your trust in God at that moment, and continuing in the future if one has given their life to Christ, then it doesnt belong to us any more! So the man who goes to church for once in 5 years and hears the word and the Lord touches his heart so he receives the altar call and says the sinners prayer has had a divine moment of truth within his heart. So he goes home and does some more drugs and committs fornication that night. He lives life the same as he did before. Is this man born again? I highly doubt it. On his way home from church his hardened heart talks him out of cancelling his date tonight with that hot girl. She is so sweet he says...And so even if he did stand in church that morning and give his life to the Lord, he then almost immediately turned around and walked away from the Lord. And the Lord knew he would because he is a young man and full of oats, right? So did the man really get born again in church? Why would he? The Lord will not be mocked.

All through the entire Bible, new & old testaments, the offer is always the same that comes with a gift. If my People will...then God will respond with blessings and anointings and Baptisms of the spirit. First we have to show that we are serious about Him.

That's why I think we dont get born again in spirit until after we have been showing ourselves to be serious. Then one day like a surprise, God just dumps the Holy Spirit on you! That is the sign of His acceptance of you. I like to think about it like, it is a resume of trust to the Lord. If my people will...get the sin out of their lives! Most people have their favorite sins, even christians. Only a few take it that seriously.

Eternal life is eternal

When you call out to God and ask for his gift of salvation. he saves you

Not everyone who calls out is saved, Because not everyone truly has faith.

But to say one can be saved today and lost tomorrow is not found in the word

 

[Behold]

Eternal life is eternal

"eternal" means eternal..

"eternal Life".

Jesus said....>"ALL that believe in me.. i give unto you Eternal Life"..

And that is "The Gift of Eternal life".

And the Scripture says that "The GIFTS and CALLINGS of GOD are without repentance"..

He wont every take them AWAY from you. - "without repentance"...

Now, a heretic, pride filled and theologically ignorant will jump up and say..>"but i can give it back, i can stop it".

So, that is how it sounds when you are a heretic and have no understanding of God's Salvation.