Is God more than the Bible?
- Thread starter Justin Mangonel
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Yes God is infinite, He is almighty. Eternal. Yes there are many things we have to Learn about God when we get to heaven i believe
Amen,
I wish we could edit things better....grin.
You know, I was thinking the other day of how people seem to want to explain every single thing that happens in Christianity with scripture. It is almost like they believe if there is no chapter and verse that the phenomenon or truth does not exist or must be of the devil. I think that when the apostles wrote they were talking to specific issues and concepts. It does not mean that they intended to speak to everything within the realm of the truth or issue they were dealing with. We limit our God and thus ourselves when we think that if it the Bible does not speak specifically to a certain issue, truth or manifestation etc. it is not of God. That is not necessarily true.
I wish we could edit things better....grin.
You know, I was thinking the other day of how people seem to want to explain every single thing that happens in Christianity with scripture. It is almost like they believe if there is no chapter and verse that the phenomenon or truth does not exist or must be of the devil. I think that when the apostles wrote they were talking to specific issues and concepts. It does not mean that they intended to speak to everything within the realm of the truth or issue they were dealing with. We limit our God and thus ourselves when we think that if it the Bible does not speak specifically to a certain issue, truth or manifestation etc. it is not of God. That is not necessarily true.
Hello P,
For example let us use the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of acts was pretty non-specific except that people thought that they were drunk. We know they spoke in other tongues but we do not know if every single one of them spoke in a known language although I don't think it is wrong to think they did. In other places it speaks about an unknown tongue and how this manifestation should be allowed to function in church.
Point is that all the scriptures which speak of the Holy Spirit are talking about a broad experience...a large and complex phenomenon. Certain scriptures speak to certain aspects of it but I don't believe that they speak to every possible permutation of it. When people today talk about shaking, laughing, roaring, barking etc. they sometimes reject these particular manifestations because there is no chapter and verse that specifically speaks to them. Therefore, some erroneously assume that these are not of God and either are just made up or, worse yet, of the devil.
However, I don't believe the scriptures were meant to show everything of God but rather to record His dealings and thoughts for our edification. From what God did and said in the past we can derive principles that He usually seems to follow but when those principles become laws that define what we allow God to be and do I think we miss the mark.
I believe it is good to come to a place where we know God personally to such a degree that even if usual things happen that are not specifically mentioned in the Bible that we will recognize them as being of our Father. The same goes for the bad stuff too.
The truth is, that much of the spiritualism that exists in the world today is merely a corruption of ways that God first created in man to interface with the spiritual realm. Christians thus despise these things and when anything...even in the most holy of atmosphere...looks the slightest bit like what the Devil does they run to their Bibles to find chapter and verse. I believe we are coming in to a time where God is going to do things that have never been done before and, though they will not go against the general tenor of the word, we will not be able to find them in the word.
For example let us use the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of acts was pretty non-specific except that people thought that they were drunk. We know they spoke in other tongues but we do not know if every single one of them spoke in a known language although I don't think it is wrong to think they did. In other places it speaks about an unknown tongue and how this manifestation should be allowed to function in church.
Point is that all the scriptures which speak of the Holy Spirit are talking about a broad experience...a large and complex phenomenon. Certain scriptures speak to certain aspects of it but I don't believe that they speak to every possible permutation of it. When people today talk about shaking, laughing, roaring, barking etc. they sometimes reject these particular manifestations because there is no chapter and verse that specifically speaks to them. Therefore, some erroneously assume that these are not of God and either are just made up or, worse yet, of the devil.
However, I don't believe the scriptures were meant to show everything of God but rather to record His dealings and thoughts for our edification. From what God did and said in the past we can derive principles that He usually seems to follow but when those principles become laws that define what we allow God to be and do I think we miss the mark.
I believe it is good to come to a place where we know God personally to such a degree that even if usual things happen that are not specifically mentioned in the Bible that we will recognize them as being of our Father. The same goes for the bad stuff too.
The truth is, that much of the spiritualism that exists in the world today is merely a corruption of ways that God first created in man to interface with the spiritual realm. Christians thus despise these things and when anything...even in the most holy of atmosphere...looks the slightest bit like what the Devil does they run to their Bibles to find chapter and verse. I believe we are coming in to a time where God is going to do things that have never been done before and, though they will not go against the general tenor of the word, we will not be able to find them in the word.
You really believe the bible or the word of God as it is preserved today is like a secondary reference, and incomplete or insignificant guild.
If you believe the bible to be the words of God then what does it say. but My words will by no means pass away.
Matthew 25
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
3 My son, do not forget my law,
But let your heart keep my commands;
2 For length of days and long life
And peace they will add to you.
3 Let not mercy and truth forsake you;
Bind them around your neck,
Write them on the tablet of your heart,
4 And so find favor and high esteem
In the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct[a] your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and depart from evil.
8 It will be health to your flesh,[b]
And strength[c] to your bones.
I have very little hope for those that have no reverence for the bible, the word of God preserved,
those that consider it inadequate as compared to their own wisdom. Those that find it contrary to their own understanding and so seek to minimize its teaching, encouraging others to forsake the guide and strike out in their own strength. I don't see much hope for them
Hebrews 4
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
If you believe the bible to be the words of God then what does it say. but My words will by no means pass away.
Matthew 25
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
3 My son, do not forget my law,
But let your heart keep my commands;
2 For length of days and long life
And peace they will add to you.
3 Let not mercy and truth forsake you;
Bind them around your neck,
Write them on the tablet of your heart,
4 And so find favor and high esteem
In the sight of God and man.
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct[a] your paths.
7 Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the Lord and depart from evil.
8 It will be health to your flesh,[b]
And strength[c] to your bones.
I have very little hope for those that have no reverence for the bible, the word of God preserved,
those that consider it inadequate as compared to their own wisdom. Those that find it contrary to their own understanding and so seek to minimize its teaching, encouraging others to forsake the guide and strike out in their own strength. I don't see much hope for them
Hebrews 4
11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Justin Mangonel said:
Like King Solomon says "there is nothing new under the sun" The Holy Spirit is the same now as it was back in the days of the pentacost.If a person is barking and talking gibberish instead of talking in a known language,it would lead most informed christians to believe the person is pretending to have the Holy Spirit.As you know speaking in tongues is just one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.How many of these so called spirit filled people can prophesy or heal the sick?The surest indication of someone with the Holy Spirit is persecution.The Bible shows us this.
Justin Mangonel said:
Dear P,
I am glad you are an informed Christian and are not pretending to have the Holy Spirit like others do.
Point I am making is that you can visit the ocean and describe one location or observe one phenomena and write about it. However, that does not mean that your description now defines what the entire ocean is.
Likewise, the Holy Spirit, which in reality is simply God who is a Spirit and is holy, is unimaginable vast. To limit God to what was written in the Bible is not proper.
I am glad you are an informed Christian and are not pretending to have the Holy Spirit like others do.
Point I am making is that you can visit the ocean and describe one location or observe one phenomena and write about it. However, that does not mean that your description now defines what the entire ocean is.
Likewise, the Holy Spirit, which in reality is simply God who is a Spirit and is holy, is unimaginable vast. To limit God to what was written in the Bible is not proper.
Your an interesting piece of work Justin I admire your ability to start threads such as this one with no scriptural evidence to support your belief.Justin Mangonel said:
Then as you always do you witness by proxy, you wait for others that may in some way share or support your wisdom then you support what ever evidence they may present "proxy witness" . This takes the heat off yourself in keeping with presenting the wisdom of Justin, just simply let others make your case for you. Interesting tactic to say the least, you repeat this same strategy in all your thread starters, to reinforce my observation you rarely offer your insight in an other thread. Instead you take your opinion from the discussion and wait for someone else to make your case, just as you are now doing.
Why not just present your case yourself?
Go on Justin make your case quit wanting for someone else to go beyond what is written
But I think you get a kick out of puffing up others on your own behalf,
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. 7 For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?Justin Mangonel said:
8 You are already full! You are already rich! You have reigned as kings without us—and indeed I could wish you did reign, that we also might reign with you! 9 For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored! 11 To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless. 12 And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; 13 being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.
Perhaps your bring a different Gospel
Gal 1:8
2 Cor 11:4
or foundation
1 Cor 3:11
Justin Mangonel said:
And that is just what many in the pentecostal faith believe that YOU MUST speak in tongues. In spite of it not being taught. If it were necessary don't you think one of the Apostles would have mentioned it?
Your words "but when those principles become laws that define what we allow God to be and do I think we miss the mark".
Have the Pentecostals missed the mark? By teaching you must speak in tongues? See your words quoted below as well. Your talking in circles.
And this is the problem, Catholics teach about the supernatural attributes of Mary, there argument in its defense is similar, they don't think its wrong.
They believe it to be the truth though its not taught as truth or testified to in the NT.
God never wrote the bible, there is one God over 45 different version of teh bible each obe different, pray tell me which is the right one with only His word and not mens interpretation.
The bible is ink on paper, it gets old, the ink fades, ther are thrown out, Gods word is spirit, it is Life in never ends .
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
In all His Love
The bible is ink on paper, it gets old, the ink fades, ther are thrown out, Gods word is spirit, it is Life in never ends .
Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Mat_17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
In all His Love
I count 277 times in the KJV the word written is used. 132 times in the NTmjrhealth said:
Thats in-concluding the word written in the book of life, and written with the finger of God.
Maybe you would like to have a look before the book burning, I didn't bother to quote Jesus and the number of times He said it is written.
Apparently the written word carries some weight. Paul also said, whether it be written or spoken.
Heres a sample
Ps 40:7
Ps 139:16
Ps 149:19
Ex 24:12
Dt 9:10
Jos 1:8
Isa 65:6
Jer 25:13
Jer 36:6
Jer 51:60
Dan 12:1
Neh 8:15
Eze 2:10
Mal 3:16
Hi all,
I like what M said. God's word is Spirit. I think this goes to the heart of the matter. God's word is more than what is written because God has, as it were, only shown us His hinder parts. Even the small glimpse of God we have through His word is marvelous to behold.
I don't know why some assume that scriptures piled one upon another prove their point. This is not a numbers games. Truth is not measured by weight of quotations. I counted 14 scriptures that R quoted and he used them to make a point which is completely beside the point. It is the truth that matters not the ability to list scripture which do not speak to the truth.
What I have said and what M said is completely true. Yet, somehow people take what we say to mean that we disparage the Bible. My friends, as least try to understand that I am talking about the leaven of the Pharisees and not mere bread.
I was thinking today that the reason people misinterpret scriptures is that they have not personally met God. Once you meet God you know, from experience, what He is like and to varying degrees what He thinks. When people grossly get fundamental truths wrong that should indicate the place that they are coming from is more of a intellectual belief rather than a belief based upon actual experience.
People say that they want scripture to prove my points. Why should I give them more scripture when they have not listened to and understood the verses that I have already provided? Have those who disagree with me ever once said, "wow Justin, I have never seen it that way before" and changed their opinions about something I have said? I don't remember many doing so. In the main, people don't seem to want scriptural proof because there is no scriptural proof they would accept. Some make a false pretence of being open to let the scriptures just speak for themselves...but they have no real intention of changing their minds no matter what proof is offered. I say those who have ears to hear let them hear and those who are blind and seek to lead the blind let them alone.
I don't like a contentious spirit. This type of spirit that indwells many would be defenders of the faith is simply against everything and everyone that does not line up with their narrow and exclusive brand of doctrine. Everyone becomes wrong and in error except their cadre of scripturally approved people. They never have new ideas because new ideas are strictly forbidden. To them everything is decided and set in stone. They are forever on the defensive because in their view the world, which is heretical, is against them. These are modern day Pharisees and they do not know it. Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy. They seek to appear holy but inwardly the cannot live what they preach even though they want others to do so.
Children who know their father are happy and secure. They are inquisitive and curious. They want to explore the word confident in the fact that their Father watches over them and will rescue them if they get into trouble. If you are fearful and cower in the theological corner then you do not know the Father I serve. My Father gives good gifts and wants us to know Him in ever deeper and fulfilling ways.
You know, if I sense that someone really wants to know the truth and is not merely being contrary for the sake of being contentious then I am ready and willing to explain at length how the points I am sharing line up with scripture. However, the funny thing is, that people who are open to new revelation usually do not need to have things explain overly much because they will grasp truths by the Spirit just like Peter did when he knew that Jesus was the Messiah.
Really, what spirit are we of when we seek to degrade and destroy our brethren for share what God is speaking to them? I know that those who hearts are hard will not hear what I have to say but they are not the only ones who read what I write. People who hunger and thirst after God will, every once in a while, a cool drink of the Spirit in theses posts.
My brethren, the kingdom is about love and not about defending scripture. If we destroy our brethren while we believe we are defending the faith what have we achieved? Is not the kingdom of God in the hearts of men? Let us seek to build up and not to tear down. Jesus did not want His disciple to call down fire from heaven on anyone. We are here to help heal and bind up the broken hearted. If we cannot even be civil to our brothers and sisters how will we ever be able to manifest Jesus to those who do not even know Him?
I like what M said. God's word is Spirit. I think this goes to the heart of the matter. God's word is more than what is written because God has, as it were, only shown us His hinder parts. Even the small glimpse of God we have through His word is marvelous to behold.
I don't know why some assume that scriptures piled one upon another prove their point. This is not a numbers games. Truth is not measured by weight of quotations. I counted 14 scriptures that R quoted and he used them to make a point which is completely beside the point. It is the truth that matters not the ability to list scripture which do not speak to the truth.
What I have said and what M said is completely true. Yet, somehow people take what we say to mean that we disparage the Bible. My friends, as least try to understand that I am talking about the leaven of the Pharisees and not mere bread.
I was thinking today that the reason people misinterpret scriptures is that they have not personally met God. Once you meet God you know, from experience, what He is like and to varying degrees what He thinks. When people grossly get fundamental truths wrong that should indicate the place that they are coming from is more of a intellectual belief rather than a belief based upon actual experience.
People say that they want scripture to prove my points. Why should I give them more scripture when they have not listened to and understood the verses that I have already provided? Have those who disagree with me ever once said, "wow Justin, I have never seen it that way before" and changed their opinions about something I have said? I don't remember many doing so. In the main, people don't seem to want scriptural proof because there is no scriptural proof they would accept. Some make a false pretence of being open to let the scriptures just speak for themselves...but they have no real intention of changing their minds no matter what proof is offered. I say those who have ears to hear let them hear and those who are blind and seek to lead the blind let them alone.
I don't like a contentious spirit. This type of spirit that indwells many would be defenders of the faith is simply against everything and everyone that does not line up with their narrow and exclusive brand of doctrine. Everyone becomes wrong and in error except their cadre of scripturally approved people. They never have new ideas because new ideas are strictly forbidden. To them everything is decided and set in stone. They are forever on the defensive because in their view the world, which is heretical, is against them. These are modern day Pharisees and they do not know it. Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy. They seek to appear holy but inwardly the cannot live what they preach even though they want others to do so.
Children who know their father are happy and secure. They are inquisitive and curious. They want to explore the word confident in the fact that their Father watches over them and will rescue them if they get into trouble. If you are fearful and cower in the theological corner then you do not know the Father I serve. My Father gives good gifts and wants us to know Him in ever deeper and fulfilling ways.
You know, if I sense that someone really wants to know the truth and is not merely being contrary for the sake of being contentious then I am ready and willing to explain at length how the points I am sharing line up with scripture. However, the funny thing is, that people who are open to new revelation usually do not need to have things explain overly much because they will grasp truths by the Spirit just like Peter did when he knew that Jesus was the Messiah.
Really, what spirit are we of when we seek to degrade and destroy our brethren for share what God is speaking to them? I know that those who hearts are hard will not hear what I have to say but they are not the only ones who read what I write. People who hunger and thirst after God will, every once in a while, a cool drink of the Spirit in theses posts.
My brethren, the kingdom is about love and not about defending scripture. If we destroy our brethren while we believe we are defending the faith what have we achieved? Is not the kingdom of God in the hearts of men? Let us seek to build up and not to tear down. Jesus did not want His disciple to call down fire from heaven on anyone. We are here to help heal and bind up the broken hearted. If we cannot even be civil to our brothers and sisters how will we ever be able to manifest Jesus to those who do not even know Him?
This is a unreasoned post.Justin Mangonel said:
God is His Word.
Have you not read "For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he" how much more so of God?
Justin is teaching that those that use caution and warn about not listening to Gods word are bad people.\"\\\"\\\\\\\"Thegoodground\\\\\\\"\\\"\" said:
If memory serves me this is exactly what caused the fall in the garden in the first place. Not listening to Gods word
Has God really said, sounds more like tempting to me [see justins quote below], for the day you eat of it you will be like God.
So which Father do you serve Justin? apparently the one at war with my Fathers words.
sorry about the strange looking post but apparently the only way I can access this forum right now is threw a free proxy server, I don\\\\\\\'t know why I can open this site with out it.
===============================================================================================================================
Thats because the last time I looked and in post #9 I pointed out you don't post scripture, not a single one in this whole thread, you let others defend the wisdom of Justin.Justin Mangonel said:
Like M as you call him
Maybe you would take the time to prove the scripture I posted in #9 is full of leaven, or any other you care to pick.
Instead of long winded empty accusations, point directly at my error and state your case, I have pointed at yours yet you don't directly comment on my post, why is that Justin? Is it because there not my words but Gods words and it's safer to attack the messenger than the source.
Dear R,
I really do not hear my Fathers voice in what you write. I know you are trying bro but you really do miss the mark on a lot of what you say. However, when you do get it right and more than happy to say so.
I do not wish to box with you but rather reason with you. Sometimes your theories are not God's word even though you try to clothe them in it. In truth I think you really want to be on God's side and be a good servant. If you could get beyond this notion of defending the faith at every turn to one of exploring the faith with an open and humble spirit I think you would find that His word would open up to you more. I understand legalism because that is how I was and it took a direct experience with God to change my heart and eventually my mind. When I just let go and trusted God to love and lead me I was a lot happier.
Look for the heart and voice of God in what people say. Consider what the core is of what they are trying to express rather than just react to certain phrases that show up on your deception radar. People do not always express things perfectly but it does not mean that what they are saying is not of God. We must learn to hear our Father's voice.
Blessings,
Justin
I really do not hear my Fathers voice in what you write. I know you are trying bro but you really do miss the mark on a lot of what you say. However, when you do get it right and more than happy to say so.
I do not wish to box with you but rather reason with you. Sometimes your theories are not God's word even though you try to clothe them in it. In truth I think you really want to be on God's side and be a good servant. If you could get beyond this notion of defending the faith at every turn to one of exploring the faith with an open and humble spirit I think you would find that His word would open up to you more. I understand legalism because that is how I was and it took a direct experience with God to change my heart and eventually my mind. When I just let go and trusted God to love and lead me I was a lot happier.
Look for the heart and voice of God in what people say. Consider what the core is of what they are trying to express rather than just react to certain phrases that show up on your deception radar. People do not always express things perfectly but it does not mean that what they are saying is not of God. We must learn to hear our Father's voice.
Blessings,
Justin
Apostle John said that The Word was and is... GOD.
John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(KJV)
John is speaking of our Lord Jesus Christ in that.
So how could anyone ever try to separate Him from His Word?
How many are aware that The Word of God was written in the star constellations prior to It being written in letters? (per research done by E.W. Bullinger in his work The Witness of The Stars).
John 1:1-5
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(KJV)
John is speaking of our Lord Jesus Christ in that.
So how could anyone ever try to separate Him from His Word?
How many are aware that The Word of God was written in the star constellations prior to It being written in letters? (per research done by E.W. Bullinger in his work The Witness of The Stars).
If the Bible were greater than God then the Bible would be God and inaccessible to finite man.
If the Bible were equal with God then the Bible would make the Trinity the Quadrinity and inaccessible to finite man.
If the Bible were less than God then the Bible would be accessible to finite man for our edification, instruction, and joy.
Should have gone without saying...
If the Bible were equal with God then the Bible would make the Trinity the Quadrinity and inaccessible to finite man.
If the Bible were less than God then the Bible would be accessible to finite man for our edification, instruction, and joy.
Should have gone without saying...
I have a question for you to ask yourself, how is it you have faith and know God today.
In the same vein that Pauls says faith comes by hearing and hearing BY THE WORD of God.
Did Paul hear Isaiah did he know Moses, had he listen to David speak the Psalm? Or had he read the scripture? Paul uses the scriptures to reinforce his statement, faith comes by hearing the word of God. My point is Paul's revelation and teaching in the NT didn't pop out of a vacuum nor did he walk with these men but it was relieved to him threw scripture.
He goes on to say, paraphrased--> how then have you come to know and believe if you have not heard, Romans 10:14 and to so quickly turn away from the word in which you first believed. Gal 1:6 to follow another gospel. Thus making void the word of God by your traditions Mark 7:13 for what comes out of a man is that which defiles him, Mark 7:20-23 only to lean unto your own understanding Proverbs 3:5 to miss the mark and presume you know the way Proverbs 21:30
Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”[i]Isaiah 52:7; Nahum 1:15
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”[j]Isaiah 53:1 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”[k]Psalm 19:4
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:
“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”[l]Deuteronomy 32:21
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”[m]Isaiah 65:1
21 But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”[n]Isaiah 65:2
In the same vein that Pauls says faith comes by hearing and hearing BY THE WORD of God.
Did Paul hear Isaiah did he know Moses, had he listen to David speak the Psalm? Or had he read the scripture? Paul uses the scriptures to reinforce his statement, faith comes by hearing the word of God. My point is Paul's revelation and teaching in the NT didn't pop out of a vacuum nor did he walk with these men but it was relieved to him threw scripture.
He goes on to say, paraphrased--> how then have you come to know and believe if you have not heard, Romans 10:14 and to so quickly turn away from the word in which you first believed. Gal 1:6 to follow another gospel. Thus making void the word of God by your traditions Mark 7:13 for what comes out of a man is that which defiles him, Mark 7:20-23 only to lean unto your own understanding Proverbs 3:5 to miss the mark and presume you know the way Proverbs 21:30
Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”[i]Isaiah 52:7; Nahum 1:15
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”[j]Isaiah 53:1 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed:
“Their sound has gone out to all the earth,
And their words to the ends of the world.”[k]Psalm 19:4
19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says:
“I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation,
I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”[l]Deuteronomy 32:21
20 But Isaiah is very bold and says:
“I was found by those who did not seek Me;
I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me.”[m]Isaiah 65:1
21 But to Israel he says:
“All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”[n]Isaiah 65:2
Selene
New Member
The Word of God (Jesus Christ) is not the same as the Holy Bible (Scripture). Jesus Christ is the Logos who existed with God at the beginning. The word "scripture" is "graphe" in Greek. Logos (Word of God) and graphe (scripture, which is also the word of God) are not the same. One is the written word while the other is the LIVING Word. Jesus Christ is greater than the Holy Bible because Christ is God. The Holy Bible is not God and should never be worshiped as God.veteran said:
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