Is God sending people straight to hell when they die, today?

[Peterlag]

You are lost in that thinking, because your mind has been inundated and overwhelmed by a false understanding of what we have ALL BEEN led to believe of WHAT the first resurrection is, and not that of WHO.
Please see my edit in post 478.

I have not had the same training as most so I don't think it's that I'm confused. Jesus was the first to get up from the dead and stay up in the new body. So anybody getting out of a grave and staying up could not have happened before Jesus got up.

 

[Earburner]

I have not had the same training as most so I don't think it's that I'm confused. Jesus was the first to get up from the dead and stay up in the new body. So anybody getting out of a grave and staying up could not have happened before Jesus got up.

So, is it that you don't want to agree with how fast a person can be resurrected into immortality, having New Life, or is it because we all have only understood that the first resurrection shall only take place in the future only?
1 Cor. 15
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
BTW, who ARE the firstfruits?

For those who were in God's "remembrance" of OC Israel, Mat. 27:52-54 and Rev. 6:9-11 says differently.
Mat. 27[52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[53] And came out of the graves AFTER his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Rev. 6
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Please remember, that the Holy Spirit of God was NOT permanently given to anyone at all, until AFTER He who is the First resurrection, arose from the dead, having eternal life and Immortality.
That means all of the OC saints, who died in faith long ago, did NOT and could NOT have the permanency of God's indwelling Holy Spirit, until the blood of Jesus was shed for the remission (removal) of sins.
God did not forget them!

 

[Peterlag]

So, is it that you don't want to agree with how fast a person can be resurrected into immortality, having New Life, or is it because we all have only understood that the first resurrection shall only take place in the future only?
1 Cor. 15
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
BTW, who ARE the firstfruits?

For those who were in God's "remembrance" of OC Israel, Mat. 27:52-54 and Rev. 6:9-11 says differently.
Mat. 27[52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
[53] And came out of the graves AFTER his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Rev. 6
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Please remember, that the Holy Spirit of God was NOT permanently given to anyone at all, until AFTER He who is the First resurrection, arose from the dead, having eternal life and Immortality.
That means all of the OC saints, who died in faith long ago, did NOT and could NOT have the permanency of God's indwelling Holy Spirit, until the blood of Jesus was shed for the remission (removal) of sins.
God did not forget them!

Oh I see you are now looking at verse 53 that says after his resurrection. Most conservative commentators recognize there are difficulties with the record in Matthew but just take what Matthew says at face value without commenting too much about it or offering potential solutions to those problems. Many other scholars recognize problems with Matthew 27:52-53 and offer different solutions to them. A common one is that Matthew is speaking in an apocalyptic fashion and using a word picture that draws on Old Testament motifs and connects Jesus’ death and resurrection to the future resurrection of believers. Another explanation is that by the time Matthew wrote, there was a tradition that the event had happened, and Matthew pulled that tradition into the text.d A. B. Bruce writes: “We seem here to be in the region of Christian legend.”e However, it seems very unlikely that Matthew would put apocalyptic typology, legend, or tradition into the Gospel of Matthew as if it were literal history. A few Bible teachers have suggested that the record was added to the early texts of Matthew, but there is no textual evidence for that. So as obscure as it is, it seems that to show that the death of Jesus conquered death for everyone, when Jesus died some dead believers got up from the dead for a few days then rather quickly died again, awaiting the first resurrection.

As a side note, Matthew 27:53 uses the Greek word egersis ( ἔγερσις), “resurrection,” and this is the only time it is used in the New Testament. In fact, it is also used only once in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint, and that usage was not about getting up from the dead, but arising from sleep. “You know when I sit and when I rise” (Psalms 139:2 NIV). The word means “a waking up as from sleep, a rousing or rising up.” As far as all other extant Greek literature is concerned, egersis was not used of rising from the dead until the Church Father, Irenaeus.f Several scenarios are possible: by the time Matthew wrote, Christians were using “egersis” to refer to the resurrection because it can mean a waking from sleep, and Matthew used it that way. Or Matthew may have been the first to use it that way and the concept spread in Christianity.

 

[Earburner]

Oh I see you are now looking at verse 53 that says after his resurrection. Most conservative commentators recognize there are difficulties with the record in Matthew but just take what Matthew says at face value without commenting too much about it or offering potential solutions to those problems. Many other scholars recognize problems with Matthew 27:52-53 and offer different solutions to them. A common one is that Matthew is speaking in an apocalyptic fashion and using a word picture that draws on Old Testament motifs and connects Jesus’ death and resurrection to the future resurrection of believers. Another explanation is that by the time Matthew wrote, there was a tradition that the event had happened, and Matthew pulled that tradition into the text.d A. B. Bruce writes: “We seem here to be in the region of Christian legend.”e However, it seems very unlikely that Matthew would put apocalyptic typology, legend, or tradition into the Gospel of Matthew as if it were literal history. A few Bible teachers have suggested that the record was added to the early texts of Matthew, but there is no textual evidence for that. So as obscure as it is, it seems that to show that the death of Jesus conquered death for everyone, when Jesus died some dead believers got up from the dead for a few days then rather quickly died again, awaiting the first resurrection.

As a side note, Matthew 27:53 uses the Greek word egersis ( ἔγερσις), “resurrection,” and this is the only time it is used in the New Testament. In fact, it is also used only once in the Greek Old Testament, the Septuagint, and that usage was not about getting up from the dead, but arising from sleep. “You know when I sit and when I rise” (Psalms 139:2 NIV). The word means “a waking up as from sleep, a rousing or rising up.” As far as all other extant Greek literature is concerned, egersis was not used of rising from the dead until the Church Father, Irenaeus.f Several scenarios are possible: by the time Matthew wrote, Christians were using “egersis” to refer to the resurrection because it can mean a waking from sleep, and Matthew used it that way. Or Matthew may have been the first to use it that way and the concept spread in Christianity.

What you are revealing is numerous options to choose from, instead of accepting the words of Mat. 27:52-54 by faith, that it is indeed true.
What I mean is, to have a word or two added or removed is one thing, but to add in a fabricated story, being a lie about many dead people rising from out of their graves, soon after Christ's own resurrection, is just too much to swallow.

Matthew himself was a tax collector, a very down to earth guy, who knew of the severity of hatching lies about money. For him to fabricate a lie around Jesus' death and resurrection, is not anything I can digest.

Even if he meant it to be figurative, as in waking up spiritually one day, while walking down the street.
For that, he was very much far off point, if he was intending to repeat what John wrote of what Jesus said:
John 5
[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

EDIT:
Here is how the TR Greek text says it:
51. and behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom and the earth shook and the stones were split
52. and the monuments were opened and many bodies of the sleeping saints were raised
53. and coming out of the monuments after his resurrection [ἔγερσιν], they entered the holy city and many appeared

However, I do see and agree in the different Greek word for resurrection, as used in Mat. 27:53, in comparison to:
Mat. 22:28 the resurrection- ἀναστάσει
Acts 1:23 of his resurrection- ἀναστάσεως
Rom. 6:5 of his resurrection- ἀναστάσεως
Phil. 3:10 of his resurrection- ἀναστάσεως
Rev. 20:5. the first resurrection-ἀνάστασις
Rev. 20:6. the first resurrection-ἀναστάσει

In today's English to Greek:
Mat. 27:53 After his resurrection-Μετά την ανάστασή του

It can be confusing.
So here's the question: why or how is it that the Greek word for resurrection, in Mat. 27:53, does not line up with the context??

My conclusion is that it was an insertion into the context, whereby the context is truthful, but the insertion is not.

 

[Peterlag]

What you are revealing is numerous options to choose from, instead of accepting the words of Mat. 27:52-54 by faith, that it is indeed true.
What I mean is, to have a word or two added or removed is one thing, but to add in a fabricated story, being a lie about many dead people rising from out of their graves, soon after Christ's own resurrection, is just too much to swallow.

Matthew himself was a tax collector, a very down to earth guy, who knew of the severity of hatching lies about money. For him to fabricate a lie around Jesus' death and resurrection, is not anything I can digest.

Even if he meant it to be figurative, as in waking up spiritually one day, while walking down the street.
For that, he was very much far off point, if he was intending to repeat what John wrote of what Jesus said:
John 5
[25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

EDIT:
Here is how the TR Greek text says it:
51. and behold, the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom and the earth shook and the stones were split
52. and the monuments were opened and many bodies of the sleeping saints were raised
53. and coming out of the monuments after his resurrection [ἔγερσιν], they entered the holy city and many appeared

However, I do see and agree in the different Greek word for resurrection, as used in Mat. 27:53, in comparison to:
Mat. 22:28 the resurrection- ἀναστάσει
Acts 1:23 of his resurrection- ἀναστάσεως
Rom. 6:5 of his resurrection- ἀναστάσεως
Phil. 3:10 of his resurrection- ἀναστάσεως
Rev. 20:5. the first resurrection-ἀνάστασις
Rev. 20:6. the first resurrection-ἀναστάσει

In today's English to Greek:
Mat. 27:53 After his resurrection-Μετά την ανάστασή του

It can be confusing.
So here's the question: why or how is it that the Greek word for resurrection, in Mat. 27:53, does not line up with the context??

My conclusion is that it was an insertion into the context, whereby the context is truthful, but the insertion is not.

It is most likely that the significance of this death-resurrection sign is that it's a prophetic foreshadowing that points to the resurrection of everyone who believes that God raised Jesus from the dead (some see an echo here of (Ezek. 37:1214). As Leon Morris remarks concerning this sign, “Matthew is making the point that the resurrection of Jesus brought about the resurrection of his people.” Thus, in a dramatic way, the death and resurrection of Jesus will end the power of death itself. Despite the testimony that this last sign of Jesus’ death-resurrection seems to provide, it raises a number of questions about details surrounding this sign.

One question that is hotly debated is whether or not these “many saints” were raised in glorified bodies or their natural bodies. The traditional answer to that question is that when the saints got up from the dead they were in their glorified bodies and then, at some point, perhaps very shortly after going into Jerusalem, they ascended into heaven. However, the biblical evidence is against the saints being raised in glorified bodies. Jesus Christ had not yet been raised from the dead, and Jesus was the “firstborn from among the dead” and the “firstfruits” from the dead. Some Bible teachers try to get around this objection by asserting that the phrase “after his resurrection” in verse 53 refers to the entire event, and that the dead were not raised until after Jesus’ resurrection. However, that is not the reading of the Greek text. According to the text of Matthew, the saints were raised from the dead when Jesus died. R. C. H. Lenski gets around the firstfruits argument by saying that Jesus is still the firstfruits from the dead even though these many saints were raised before him, because the saints stayed around their graves for the three days before appearing to people and thus gave time for Jesus to get up. But that is an unjustified sidestep of the problem: if many people were resurrected in glorified bodies before Jesus was, then Jesus was not the firstfruits from the dead.

Another reason the saints could not have been raised from the dead in glorified bodies and shortly after that ascended into heaven is that when the Gospel of John was written (perhaps AD 80-90), no one was in heaven but Jesus. The textual evidence is that the way John 3:13 is written in the KJV represents the original reading of the Greek text, and it says, “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.” Thus, when John wrote, no human was in heaven but Jesus. That would mean that the many saints were still on earth in glorified bodies at least until the Gospel of John was written, perhaps 50 years later, which stretches the limits of credulity.

There is another piece of supporting evidence that the “many saints” had not been raised in glorified bodies and quickly ascended to heaven. On the day of Pentecost, only 50 days after Jesus died, Peter taught the crowds that part of the proof that Jesus was indeed “Lord” and “Christ” was that Jesus’ had been raised from the dead and had ascended to the right hand of God, and that this was in contrast to great men like David who were still buried in the ground. But if “many saints” had also been raised from the dead in glorified bodies, and also ascended into heaven, then a large group of saints, including Jesus, had been raised and ascended to heaven, and that would have considerably weakened Peter’s argument because then Jesus would have not been special, he would have been part of a group. Opponents could have simply said that lots of people were raised and ascended, so why was Jesus different from the others (even though we know he was)?

The evidence from Acts and the early Church leads us to conclude, but the Bible never specifically says, that the many saints got up in their natural bodies and died again quite quickly. But even if that was the case, there are still many unanswered questions about the event. For example, who were these many saints, and how would people know they had been raised from the dead? Also, what was the reason they stayed near (or perhaps even “in”) the tombs for three days before going into Jerusalem? Also, why is there no other mention of them in the Bible? The chief priests apparently knew nothing about them, and were concerned only that Jesus’ tomb be sealed, and why did none of those “many saints” get word of their resurrection to the apostles who were living in fear during those same three days?

Also, after the three days were over and they went into Jerusalem, why does the biblical evidence lead us to believe they never appeared to the apostles? After all, evidence of Jesus’ resurrection was coming to those confused believers from many sources; Mary Magdalene, the other women, Peter himself, and the men who were on the road to Emmaus, so why not from a few of those “many saints” as well? Another concern is how these many saints would rejoin society. Theories differ, and perhaps a possible one is that these people had not been long dead, as many assume, but had just recently died and simply returned to their families.

 

[Earburner]

One question that is hotly debated is whether or not these “many saints” were raised in glorified bodies or their natural bodies. The traditional answer to that question is that when the saints got up from the dead they were in their glorified bodies and then, at some point, perhaps very shortly after going into Jerusalem, they ascended into heaven. However, the biblical evidence is against the saints being raised in glorified bodies. Jesus Christ had not yet been raised from the dead, and Jesus was the “firstborn from among the dead” and the “firstfruits” from the dead. Some Bible teachers try to get around this objection by asserting that the phrase “after his resurrection” in verse 53 refers to the entire event, and that the dead were not raised until after Jesus’ resurrection. However, that is not the reading of the Greek text. According to the text of Matthew, the saints were raised from the dead when Jesus died. R. C. H. Lenski gets around the firstfruits argument by saying that Jesus is still the firstfruits from the dead even though these many saints were raised before him, because the saints stayed around their graves for the three days before appearing to people and thus gave time for Jesus to get up.

Of course, I don't believe in Lenski's theory at all. Mat. 27:53 clearly states that the OC. saints* (edit: "many", not all) came out of their graves AFTER Jesus' resurrection.

Therefore, though verse 50-51 speaks mainly about the day of Jesus' death, verses 52-53 is on the topic about the day of His resurrection, as well as for those who came out of the graves AFTER Jesus did, which does fulfill the scriptures perfectly about Jesus being the FIRSTborn from the dead.
1 Peter 1
[18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust [in both OC and NC], that he might bring us [OC and NC] to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[19] By which also [by the Spirit] he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
> ["captives" under the OC, who had died in sin, having not the Holy Spirit];
[20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in [during] the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
> All of such* (edit: who were of faith in the "Promise to come") are shown to us, of them recieving God's gift of the Holy Spirit, symbolized as "white robes". Rev. 6:9-11.

 

[Peterlag]

Of course, I don't believe in Lenski's theory at all. Mat. 27:53 clearly states that the OC. saints came out of their graves AFTER Jesus' resurrection. Therefore, though verse 50-51 speaks mainly about the day of Jesus' death, verses 52-53 is on the topic about the day of His resurrection, as well as for those who came out of the graves AFTER Jesus did, which does fulfill the scriptures perfectly about Jesus being the FIRSTborn from the dead.
1 Peter 1
[18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust [in both OC and NC], that he might bring us [OC and NC] to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[19] By which also [by the Spirit] he went and preached unto the spirits in prison.
> ["captives" under the OC, who had died in sin, having not the Holy Spirit];
[20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in [during] the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
> All of such are shown to us, of them recieving God's gift of the Holy Spirit, symbolized as "white robes". Rev. 6:9-11.

Two things hit my mind...

1.) I believe the spirits are the evil spirits. Not captives who died in sin. There's nothing in the Bible that teaches that spirits are humans.
2.) There's no profit to have dead people come out of their graves. It does not make sense and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

I wouldn't think God is sending people to Hell today as each sinner dies.

John's Revelation describes two judgements he witnessed. That of believers, What does Revelation chapter 20 mean? | BibleRef.com ,and then the unbelievers.

Though it is curious. If God revealed these visions to John on Patmos, would it be happening then and there for John to witness it?

 

[Earburner]

Two things hit my mind...

1.) I believe the spirits are the evil spirits. Not captives who died in sin. There's nothing in the Bible that teaches that spirits are humans.
2.) There's no profit to have dead people come out of their graves. It does not make sense and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

As I have said, down through the centuries, most of church-ianity is corrupted by the false doctrines, that have been formed by "the wisdom of men". One such false doctrine is that "every man has been given an eternal soul", of which permeates and corrupts virtually every topic of the bible.

In the mind of God, by His remembrance of them (Malachi 3:16), who were under the OC, and had died in faith of the "Promise that was to come", they are revealed in Rev. 6:9-11, having received the gift of God's Holy Spirit on the day of Christ's resurrection.

Elsewhere in Revelation*, they are seen as being the symbolic 144,000 with the 24 elders. Rev. 14:3*
The account of the 24 elders with the 144,000 in heaven, is found in the following:
Rev. 4:4,10; 5:5-14; 7:7-11; 11:16; 14:3-4; 19:4
*Note: These are they who follow Jesus where ever He goes, being the firstfruits. Rev. 14:4

*Note: the book of Revelation is NOT all about the future only, but rather is an ever present reality of the KoG, who is Jesus.
Rev. 3:20

 

[Peterlag]

As I have said, down through the centuries, most of church-ianity is corrupted by the false doctrines, that have been formed by "the wisdom of men". One such false doctrine is that "every man has been given an eternal soul", of which permeates and corrupts virtually every topic of the bible.

In the mind of God, by His remembrance (Malachi 3:16) of them, who were under the OC, and had died in faith of the "Promise that was to come", they are revealed in Rev. 6:9-11, having received the gift of God's Holy Spirit on the day of Christ's resurrection.

Elsewhere in Revelation*, they are seen as being the symbolic 144,000 with the 24 elders. Rev. 14:3*
The account of the 24 elders with the 144,000 in heaven, is found in the following:
Rev. 4:4,10; 5:5-14; 7:7-11; 11:16; 14:3-4; 19:4
*Note: These are they who follow Jesus where ever He goes, being the firstfruits. Rev. 14:4

*Note: the book of Revelation is NOT all about the future only, but rather is an ever present reality of the KoG, who is Jesus.
Rev. 3:20

I have never been taught there's an eternal soul. Such thinking sounds Catholic. Again, I don't know what this verse we are talking about is about. It just does not make sense to me. But you believe it and so I too have stuff that I really believe and not many see what I see. I stay out of the book of Revelation because I know nothing about that book that I believe is mostly if not all about Israel.

 

[Earburner]

I have never been taught there's an eternal soul. Such thinking sounds Catholic. Again, I don't know what this verse we are talking about is about. It just does not make sense to me. But you believe it and so I too have stuff that I really believe and not many see what I see. I stay out of the book of Revelation because I know nothing about that book that I believe is mostly if not all about Israel.

To not be taught by "church-ianity" about man being "given an eternal soul", is a blessing. It's a mountain that one doesn't have to conquer in their mind.
With such a persuasive doctrine, of "having an eternal soul", it has also been very pervasive. Even many of the unchurched/unsaved believe it to be so.

The reality of human life, without faith in Christ and the gift of God's Holy Spirit, is that all "shalt surely die".
That means after physical death, no existence of any kind, shall be experienced in "church-ianity's" "forever burning Hell", which is nothing more than eternal death in the grave, of which all comes to an end, as shown in Rev. 21:4.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

1.With all the saints resurrected into Eternal and Immortal life, there will be no more pro-creation, therefore no more death.
2. And with all the unsaved cast into the lake of fire, along with death and the graves, so also shall there be no more pro-creation.
Quite literally, "death shall be no more".

 

[Earburner]

Two things hit my mind...

1.) I believe the spirits are the evil spirits. Not captives who died in sin. There's nothing in the Bible that teaches that spirits are humans.
2.) There's no profit to have dead people come out of their graves. It does not make sense and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

If, as you say, that the spirits are evil spirits (fallen angels), why would Jesus, by His Holy Spirit, preach to the evil spirits, who never have forgiveness from God the Father, and therefore cannot repent towards God? To God, it would be vanity.
Edit:
All who are physically born, are held captive unto death. All who die without faith in Jesus and recieved not the gift of God's Holy Spirit, are "condemned already" (John 3:18) and cannot escape their captivity of eternal death, and shall remain dead for all eternity.

 

[Peterlag]

If, as you say, that the spirits are evil spirits (fallen angels), why would Jesus, by His Holy Spirit, preach to the evil spirits, who will never have forgiveness, and therefore cannot repent towards God the Father? To God, it would be vanity.

We don't know what they talked about. You use the word "preach" like if he was trying to get them born again. He probably told them they were going to be screwed now cause I got up from the dead. Who knows what he told them. But he must have had some awesome charged up body to be able to get there and talk to that devil spirit world.

 

[Peterlag]

To not be taught by "church-ianity" about man being "given an eternal soul", is a blessing. It's a mountain that one doesn't have to conquer in their mind.
With such a persuasive doctrine, of "having an eternal soul", it has also been very pervasive. Even many of the unchurched/unsaved believe it to be so.

The reality of human life, without faith in Christ and the gift of God's Holy Spirit, is that all "shalt surely die".
That means after physical death, no existence of any kind, shall be experienced in "church-ianity's" "forever burning Hell", which is nothing more than eternal death in the grave, of which all comes to an end, as shown in Rev. 21:4.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

1.With all the saints resurrected into Eternal and Immortal life, there will be no more pro-creation, therefore no more death.
2. And with all the unsaved cast into the lake of fire, along with death and the graves, so also shall there be no more pro-creation.
Quite literally, "death shall be no more".

Well, we agree on that.

 

[Earburner]

We don't know what they talked about. You use the word "preach" like if he was trying to get them born again. He probably told them they were going to be screwed now cause I got up from the dead. Who knows what he told them. But he must have had some awesome charged up body to be able to get there and talk to that devil spirit world.

Jesus' sacrifice of himself, being the Lamb of God, was for all people, beginning with Adam.

As all are under the judgment of eternal death that fell on Adam, so also is the Grace of God through faith in Jesus' shed blood, for the gift of eternal life
KJV John 3:18 reveals the TWO judgments of God upon man.
1. Adam- the judgment of eternal death.
2. Jesus- the judgment of eternal life, on all who believe in Him.
From the past, up to this moment, all are still being held captive by death. Many are still dieing without Christ.
However, Jesus has come to set the captives free!!
Luke 4
[18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
1 Cor. 15
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 EDIT: All people, prior to the literal manifestation of Jesus in the flesh, were to look forward in faith for the "Promise to come".
For all those who died in faith, their names were written in a "book of remembrance" before God. Malachi 3:16.
God did not forget them.

 

[Earburner]

Well, we agree on that.

Amen!!

 

[Peterlag]

Jesus' sacrifice of himself, being the Lamb of God, was for all people, beginning with Adam.

As all are under the judgment of eternal death that fell on Adam, so also is the Grace of God through faith in Jesus' shed blood, for the gift of eternal life
KJV John 3:18 reveals the TWO judgments of God upon man.
1. Adam- the judgment of eternal death.
2. Jesus- the judgment of eternal life, on all who believe in Him.
From the past, up to this moment, all are still being held captive by death. Many are still dieing without Christ.
However, Jesus has come to set the captives free!!
Luke 4
[18] The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
1 Cor. 15
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
[55] O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[56] The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
 EDIT: All people, prior to the literal manifestation of Jesus in the flesh, were to look forward in faith for the "Promise to come".
For all those who died in faith, their names were written in a "book of remembrance" before God. Malachi 3:16.
God did not forget them.

Yeah okay. But what you just wrote has nothing to do with Jesus talking to devil spirits who are locked up when he was in his resurrected body.

 

[Earburner]

Yeah okay. But what you just wrote has nothing to do with Jesus talking to devil spirits who are locked up when he was in his resurrected body.

I wrote of my understanding in post #486.

By the way, when you say "devil spirits", are you meaning the fallen angels themselves, or people?

 

[Peterlag]

I wrote of my understanding in post #486.

By the way, when you say "devil spirits", are you meaning the fallen angels themselves, or people?

Oh I never mean people when I say devil spirits.

 

[Earburner]

Oh I never mean people when I say devil spirits.

So, I am safe to conclude that you are saying that the fallen angels are "devil spirits"?