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Featured Is holiness actually attainable in this life? Can a man cease from all sin?

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Gideons300, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Well-Known Member

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    I really love, and enjoy reading your words. It is obvious that you have thought long and hard about God's Holy and unbelievable Word. Surely, we would have long conversations if in the same neighborhood.

    Say, I thought that I'd mention that "Flesh" in Romans 8 is not in reference to earthly flesh, but Spiritual Flesh, which is the Sinful Nature. Here is the verse in the NIV, and the footnotes for this word are as follows:

    Romans 8:3 NIV - 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh . . ."

    Footnotes: - In contexts like this, the Greek word for flesh (sarx) refers to the sinful state of human beings, often presented as a power in opposition to the Spirit; also in verses 4-13.

    This is why some translations read this way:

    Romans 8:3 NLT - "The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins."

    If we don't understand the use of that interchanging word, we'll never understand the True Value of Abraham and His Faith.

    Romans 4:16 NLT - "So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham's. For Abraham is the father of all who believe."

    And what is that Faith (as you know)? Romans 4:11 NLT - "Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous--even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith."

    Why am I writing all of this? Because that Flesh that you're referring to must be Circumcised by the Holy Operation of God.

    Colossians 2:11-12 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." - BTW . . . the Body of the Sins of the Flesh is . . . you got it . . . the Sinful Nature.

    Like I said . . . we could learn a lot from each other. Iron sharpens Iron!
     
  2. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Well-Known Member

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    Gids, believe me my friend . . . I hear every word and I believe you! I've been waiting to find someone who realizes that the Power of God, as we read of it in the Old Testament, is still alive and the same today as He was back then! People don't believe, in the very marrow of their bones, that they breathe simply because God allows it. But, you believe this and that belief cannot ever escape your reality. Never. You know, as few do, that you simply ought never mess around with that Holy Power! You are very, very fortunate, my friend. And . . . it is not surprise that no one has even "liked" what you've written, because what you have written is "foolishness" (to them, whoever they are). Your experience has caused you problems in this world, I am sure, for my experience has left me without a single family member, nor any past friend of my 53 year life. Trust me . . . I know that as you may suffer because God Knows you, you have that inexpressible Joy that cannot ever fade or perish.

    Not me, sir! In fact, what you wrote gave me chills, just as I know that my story would render you utterly goose-bumped as well. I know that you are proud in a most balanced way, and I know that you will never be ashamed of being Known by our Powerful, Almighty God!

    No way . . . not at all! I understand exactly what you mean! The Apostle Paul would agree with you perfectly. If Paul, as younger Saul, did not do the things that he had been allowed to do as a sinner, his life wouldn't have been as powerful and impactful as it was . . . and still is. Who in the New Testament had an experience like him? None! In fact, Paul wasn't ever seeking Christ, but attempting to kill the "fairytale" that existed within the True Christians of his day. Yet . . . Christ found him and turned his entire life around. If anyone could ever say that their Faith was . . . from start to finish, the entire work of God, it would be him. He did nothing to receive this Powerful Grace, and Grace is exactly what he received from the Lord. Whew . . . I could go on for hours.

    I am proud to know you, Gideon. And know that in the future I will be short to challenge you and the things you say. You have my respect and you have my open ears and a more shut mouth. In fact, we would be wise to take the cotton our of our ears and shove it into our mouths for a bit . . . and listen to you. Thank you, True Brother!

    David
     
  3. HisLife

    HisLife Active Member

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    No Kidding at all, When Adam who was declared Good and he and eve Sinned they didn't say well you didn't keep us from falling? Or if your child did wrong imagine them blaming you for not stopping them, the scenario is not logical. God gives us freedom and free will to make choices

    I don't think they are the exact words. are you meaning Deuteronomy 5:33 ? anyhow you finish the post with your usual running the church down...What the Church has presented to the world Is Salvation Through the Gospel, It's the opposite of a mess. It is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

    Also, We shall be sanctified in Him! The Bible actually speaks of a great falling away from the faith in the end times, men will be lovers of themselves, It will be about them Not about What Jesus Did For them
     
  4. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered the Tree of Life in the Garden, and why it is that God didn't allow A & E to run to it and live forever? The reason is that this Tree of Life is Christ . . . Fruit, Tree, Roots and all . . . that Tree is Christ and that Tree is a pre-image of Christ on the Cross, where if you eat and drink of Him, you will live forever. There's no way that God would prevent them from sinning as He did for king Abimelech.

    Genesis 20:3-6 NLT - "But that night God came to Abimelech in a dream and told him, "You are a dead man, for that woman you have taken is already married!" 4 But Abimelech had not slept with her yet, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation? 5 Didn't Abraham tell me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'Yes, he is my brother.' I acted in complete innocence! My hands are clean." 6 In the dream God responded, "Yes, I know you are innocent. That's why I kept you from sinning against me, and why I did not let you touch her."

    Gideon is right, which is that the "church" as a whole, is apostate (my words, not his). The "church" as a whole, hasn't a clue as to the Actual Gospel, for if it did, they would teach obedience. But what church teaches, and requires obedience?
     
  5. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Well-Known Member

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    David, you are very correct. The spiritual malaise we see in the church today has a root cause.... and it is simply unbelief. We start out by getting saved, by acting upon the faith He provides us. We do not choose Him. He "chooses" us, so to speak. But here is where we miss the highway of holiness. Our faith is meant to grow. We do not simply 'sprout' to newness of life and then spend the next 50 years as new creatures never growing, never maturing, our faith remaining just as it was that fateful day. Our roots must grow deeper and deeper into trusting Him and His amazing promises. We are to come to KNOW Him and praise God, know Him we will.

    If we do not find the pathway He has graciously provided to cease our yielding to temptations, and sin still reigns in us, we will remain saved but never find the free indeed He promised us. There is no condemnation, yes, .... but.... even though God does not condemn us, our own hearts, (with a heaping tablespoon of help from he enemy himself) condemn us non-stop. Does this not ring true?

    We convince ourselves this is to keep us humble, lol, but the truth is that real humility is to see oneself delivered from the power of the enemy, knowing full well who did it. NOT us.

    As the church is awakened in the these last days, we are going to see something quite amazing. Agreement. As we put on our new natures by faith, a wonderful thing begins to take place. Our minds are re-newed. We are given the mind of Christ. All of us. Up til now, the church is as divided as possible. 500+ denominations testify to that, amen? We find ourselves still babes, carnal in our walks, still in the flesh because sin still reigns over us, tainting our understanding.

    Pride sets in, with OUR viewpoint the correct one, of course, lol, and the result is that we have become the modern day version of the tower of Babel, with each one speaking their own language, frustrated that others do not see it the right way.... our way.

    But before Jesus returns, we must... no, no, we WILL.... become one, even as He is one. This is the great work of the Spirit, to restore us to true unity as HIS people. The church in these last days will be returned to Book of Acts purity and power. I may be wrong, but I do not think the church structure as we have known it can contain what God is fixing to do. Apple carts of tradition will be overturned left and right. And it is this that will cause two things. The great falling way and what I like to call the great falling towards.

    Christians are hungry, deep down inside, and true sheep will soon be seeking answers when the shakings begin to intensify. From the worlds view, such a time seems scary and unsure. What we do not realize is that this is part of our awakening process, so that everything that is not Christ in us is shaken out.

    We are about to witness a miracle..... the church of God restored to her former glory, and then exceed it. Wow. . The fact that we are the chosen generation to not only witness this, but to actually be a part of it is truly both humbling and mind blowing.

    More to come.

    blessings to you,

    Gids
     
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  6. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    As I understand it God does not deliver us from sin. He delivers us from the power of sin evidenced by the fact that sin shall no longer reign in your mortal bodies. By doing this we have the power not to sin. The choice is ours.

    I believe that the death of Jesus was a complete and final act and through it, he dealt with ALL sin once and for all. He is not dealing with it piecemeal bit by bit as it happens. We were and are washed clean through the blood and that blood was only shed once. That means sin has been deprived of any power that it had. It is up to us to avail ourselves of all that was accomplished on the cross bearing in mind that the Word says you he has quickened who WERE dead in trespasses and sin. Past tense. So you are not dead in sin, you are dead to sin. And if someone or something is dead, what can you do to it? Nothing.

    Although Satan is the prince of the world and is causing all sorts of problems, for us we can tell him to go and get stuffed because he has no power over us. All he can do is lie to us and try and convince us we are not more than conquers and that God is not too happy with us.

    I believe that one of the problems with this issue is that the church so often teaches us about God but does not teach us to know God. Knowing about God is quite different from knowing God. Knowing about God is religion. Knowing God is relationship. Paul said that I may know him (not about him), and the power of his resurrection and be made conformable to his death.

    If that was the central theme to all church life, wow, we would be unbeatable.
     
  7. HisLife

    HisLife Active Member

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    Did Adam and Eve know what they were doing, The verse doesn't relate. All the best when you have to answer To God For What you Call his Bride
     
  8. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Well-Known Member

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    May I interject one thought as to your last statement. Concerning obedience, you asked which church teaches and requires obedience. May I suggest a better wording, if I may?

    What church teaches that obedience is promised? If God promises to cause us to obey Him, and He does, we must be taught about the promise God has given us. If not, it is a slippery slope back to a hard gospel with guilt and self-effort. Make sense?

    Gids
     
  9. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Well-Known Member

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    Great work, Gids! Looking forward to "more." Gratzie. :)
     
  10. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Well-Known Member

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    Genesis 20:3-6 NLT - "But that night God came to Abimelech in a dream and told him, "You are a dead man, for that woman you have taken is already married!" 4 But Abimelech had not slept with her yet, so he said, "Lord, will you destroy an innocent nation? 5 Didn't Abraham tell me, 'She is my sister'? And she herself said, 'Yes, he is my brother.' I acted in complete innocence! My hands are clean." 6 In the dream God responded, "Yes, I know you are innocent. That's why I kept you from sinning against me, and why I did not let you touch her."

    In reading the Old Testament, a person should clearly see Holy Mind-Control over every living creature.

    Think about it: If a person has the Mind of the Devil, which is what it is to possess the Sinful Nature, how are their evil choices theirs? Conversely, if a person has the Mind of Christ, how are their Righteous choices theirs? Like I said . . . something to think about.
     
  11. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't matter, for God placed the Flaming Sword to guard the Way.

    Genesis 3:24 NLT - "After sending them out, the LORD God stationed mighty cherubim to the east of the Garden of Eden. And he placed a flaming sword that flashed back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life."
     
  12. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely it makes sense! And here's why it makes sense to me.

    Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." - I like to think of these Holy Laws as "Who." These are the Laws Who cause us to obey and to be Blameless.

    For it is this set of Spiritual Laws (the Laws of Moses are no longer needed) that are what it means to share in the Divine Nature of Christ.

    2 Peter 1:4 NLT - "And because of his glory and excellence, he has given us great and precious promises. These are the promises that enable you to share his divine nature and escape the world's corruption caused by human desires."
     
  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Two different and separate questions. The first answer is therefore "Yes" and the second answer is "No".

    Secondly, there are sins of omission and sins of commission. So even if one was free from all sins of commission (not very likely) the other issue would still be there.

    There are some here who delusionally speak of sinless perfection, but since misleading people is a sin, there goes there perfect record.
     
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  14. HisLife

    HisLife Active Member

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    That was after?
     
  15. brightfame52

    brightfame52 Active Member

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    Christ death does that for the ones He was offered for Heb 10:10

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
     
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  16. mailmandan

    mailmandan Well-Known Member

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    Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)
     
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  17. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    They allege Christ centered, yet the talk always seems to imply self centered.
    Revelation 21:2-3 KJV
    [2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    John the Baptist witnesses this and states my joy is made full, because the bridegroom has the bride. The church says He is returning for His bride,
    Makes absolutely no sense.
     
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  18. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

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    I think the Romans 7 thing is all about explaining how our spirit is saved but our flesh(carnal man) is not.

    Romans 8 shows us how to cultivate the human spirit that is saved.

    Our flesh has a mind of it's own, and will always oppose God.

    Our human spirit must daily subdue the carnal flesh man through praying in the Holy Spirit to be successful.
     
  19. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for you thoughtful reply. As you say, knowing God is key to our shining forth as His children. So often, we have thought if we just get our doctrine right, everything falls into place. if this is true, then either a) our doctrine is really messed up, lol.... or......b) it takes more than correct doctrine to shine as children of God. Actually, there is a c) here. Both of the above.

    So what is the hindrance to our growing up into a deeper and richer relationship with our God? Why does He feel so far away hen we try to pray? Is it not that sin still rages in our lives? Remember what Jesus said in John 8?

    He that sins is a slave to it and does not abide in God's house always
    .

    We may be children of His, but the guilt of our sins and our lack of faith that we are new creatures builds a wall between us and God. Sin causes us to hide from Him, just as it did with Adam and Eve. .

    Yes, there is no condemnation on God's part even when we fall into sin...but...... there is plenty of self-condemnation, robbing us of that closeness. How does God truly dwell in our hearts? By faith! And what is the effect sin has on our hearts? It undercuts our faith and hardens our hearts, callousing them over, and we lose the sweet presence of God inside us, even though He is there.

    The good news of the gospel is that not only has He forgiven us but that He will also now keep us from yielding to satan when temptations come. Do you see, we have been operating on half the good news, and our lack of faith in the truth of what Christ truly accomplished on the cross robs us of His manifest presence.

    Our God has promised that in every temptation, He will limit satan's power so that he cannot tempt us more than our ability to resist him, and in fact, actually will make way of escape so that we can bare it and not cave to it.... every time.

    So why do we continually fall when temptation hits? If it is simply a choice of ours, then why do we again and again choose to ignore the way of escape and proceed into sin? If we cannot help but choose darkness over light, this is not free indeed at all.

    But.... what if we finally came to understand that when Christ died, our old nature really did die. Like REALLY. Choosing to obey or disobey, the freedom of choice, is a gift.... until we finally see the curse behind it, for when presented with a choice to serve God or please self, self almost always wins. is this not true? But when we finally come into agreement with God that the old us is no longer in the equation, we can willingly make the final sacrifice to God, the one God desires of us..... our most valuable pearl..... freedom of choice. Whoa.

    Yes, we are all servants of God, but more often than not, as was in my case, not very good servants. We like to do our own choosing as to when we will and when we won't obey. But there comes a time when we get so fed up with ourselves for constantly disobeying, and our final hope of ever changing that evaporates, that we reach the same crisis point Paul reached in Romans 7. We finally HATE ourselves, our old self pleasing nature.

    We finally are ready to admit our powerlessness to free ourselves from sin's power, and finally cry out to God to deliver us from our real enemy.....the old us. This is when we grow from servants with free wills to bond servants, who willingly give up the right to choose and ask God to choose for us. And when that point of brokenness and powerlessness arrives, God breathes on our faith and allows us believe who we really are. New creatures. Children who have given up willingly the right to choose good or evil. Children who are now kept by the power of God through faith. Glory!

    When we arrive at this blessed place, we are no longer content to simply fail again and again and be forgiven. We want more. We want to abide in Him and not ever fulfill the lusts of the flesh, not ever willfully choose to disobey. And praise God, when that moment comes, God lets us see the truth of who we really are, who we have truly been since the day we were saved. His children who are dead to self and who possess brand new natures. No more trying to die to self. We now accept the truth that we really are already dead!

    It is then that our progressive sanctification actually begins, for it is when we truly are abiding, with our sins not clouding our vision of Him, that His nature begins to grow up inside us. We may start out as little seeds but that seed is totally pure, and praise God, that seed is destined to grow up into Him in all things, growing up into a tree capable of giving shade to others. No more three steps forward, two steps back (or more truthfully as was in my case, four steps back, lol). Real progress. Real fruits beginning to grow in us. And we will be amazed, knowing that it is God doing it IN us.

    This is when we finally leave our wandering in the wilderness, where we were ever learning but never profiting from what we learn. We finally cease from our own labors. and cross over into the land of promise, and never go back. Do our battles end here? Heck no, they begin! But the battle is now not an internal one with the old us and the new us fighting it out like the black and white dog. Not at all.

    Now, as our faith truly begins to grow in His many promises, we take authority and rule over our fleshly body, bringing it under our control. Even our thought life becomes a battlefield of victory, as we bring every thought.... think about that.... every thought! ...... into submission to God in us. Wow! Oh, the thoughts still come like flaming arrows from satan, but our shields of faith doo their job, quenching the arrows, as we hold fast to the truth that evil selfish thoughts are simply satan trying to get us to "bite" and accept that they come from our hearts. They do not.

    This revelation of who we truly are is about to spring forth in God's church to every single child of God. And just as promise, no man is going to have to tell us "Know ye the Lord", for ALL of us will know Him, from the least to the greatest....and in that order, lol.

    I pray this helps in understanding what i so poorly am trying to get His children to see.

    blessings,

    Gids
     
  20. Gideons300

    Gideons300 Well-Known Member

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    It is when we finally realize the hopelessness of that scenario as Paul did in Rom 7, and we cease from our own efforts to see victory in such a way, that our eyes will be opened to the truth that God.... and only God.... can subdue our carnal fleshly man.

    blessings,

    Gideon
     
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