Is it okay to eat pork?

[GracePeace]

Look, stopping your ears and ignoring the warning in Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV that says Jesus will come and burn up swine eaters hardly establishes one's opposing argument.

He never raised that argument, you just have a verse you're stumbling over. You should really ask the Lord about it instead of going about contradicting Paul, who knew Isaiah 66, who has given us authoritative exegesis.

It seems like you don't even read what people write--it wasn't the discussion at all.

 

[GracePeace]

Look, stopping your ears and ignoring the warning in Isaiah 66:15-17 KJV that says Jesus will come and burn up swine eaters hardly establishes one's opposing argument.

Quit wasting peoples' time. You don't have an argument. Anyone who eats what he doesn't believe he should eat, even if it is clean for someone else, is eating an "abomination" for him and is "condemned" (Ro 14:5, 23), "storing up wrath" (Ro 2).

 

[Phoneman777]

Nope, Christ, affirming the Spirit of the Law, nullifies various Torah Laws (Mt 5, 19).

So, can I bow down and worship Satan? Oh, you won't say it's so? Why? Becuase you know full well the Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever" according to Psalms 111:7-8 KJV.

The Gentile believers were deemed "doers of the Law" without even knowing the Law (Ro 2:13-16, 26, 27).
If what you teach were valid, this would be impossible. Don't you consider those who don't live by the Law "lawless"?

Primitive jungle dwellers don't need a missionary to tell them that murder is wrong. That's why God gave us a conscience. What's funny is that primitive man without a Bible argues that murder is wrong, while you holding your Bible argue the Christian is not obligate to keep the 6th commandment.

The righteous requirement is to love one's neighbor and do him no harm (Ro 13:8-10).
We do this by walking in faith, which reveals God's righteousness not our own from the Law (Ro 1:17, 14:5, 23).

If you love God, you'll keep the first four, and if you love your neighbor, the last six.

So, why don't you want to keep the 4th commandment?

I never missed it. Yes, we must rest--rest from our own works of righteousness, as Paul stated, "Being found in Him not having a righteousness of my own from the Law, but a righteousness from God based on faith in Christ."

The point is we are not to work our own works of righteousness, but work works of faith, as Paul makes clear throughout Romans and in many other places.

All that aside, Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV plainly teaches that if we're resting inwardly in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that inward rest by resting outwardly every Sabbath day.

I've never seen folks so opposed to things which the Bible plainly says we'll be doing for all eternity. If you hate keeping the Sabbath now, I suggest you reconsider whether you want to be in heaven keeping it for all eternity.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

You don't read my answers, so I am on the verge of not continuing in conversation, as it is vain--I said those who walk after the Spirit fulfill the "righteous requirement of the Law".

Exactly, and we do that from the Lord bearing fruit thru us from within (thinking of John 15) and not from trying to do this by our own efforts from without.

Well, I've read where some of your brethren say this so apparently this is what you folks believe.

Hebrews 4:9 Peshitta: "It is therefore the DUTY of the people of God to KEEP THE SABBATH"

NO requirement to keep Saturday sabbath found in the reference you provided.
Would you like to try again?

Hebrews 4:6-10
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[GracePeace]

So, can I bow down and worship Satan? Oh, you won't say it's so? Why? Becuase you know full well the Ten Commandments "stand fast forever and ever" according to Psalms 111:7-8 KJV.

The Law has good commands, but we do not have goodness, so the Law is "weak" because it relies on sinful flesh (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3); those who walk by the spirit fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law, as I've already stated so many times.

Primitive jungle dwellers don't need a missionary to tell them that murder is wrong. That's why God gave us a conscience. What's funny is that primitive man without a Bible argues that murder is wrong, while you holding your Bible argue the Christian is not obligate to keep the 6th commandment.

Romans 2 refers to Gentile believers ("who show the work of the Law written on their hearts" "circumcision is in the heart by the Spirit" v29)--lost men do not fear God, so it doesn't refer to them.

If you love God, you'll keep the first four, and if you love your neighbor, the last six.

So, why don't you want to keep the 4th commandment?

The 4th Commandment doesn't pertain to me, it pertains to the old creation.

All that aside, Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV plainly teaches that if we're resting inwardly in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that inward rest by resting outwardly every Sabbath day.

I've never seen folks so opposed to things which the Bible plainly says we'll be doing for all eternity. If you hate keeping the Sabbath now, I suggest you reconsider whether you want to be in heaven keeping it for all eternity.

Nothing you say is "plain" in Scripture, but contradicted at every turn.

 

[Phoneman777]

#GracePeace - why do you have a character from that disgusting "A Clockwork Orange" - a movie that promotes rape, murder, blasphemy, drugs, booze, etc.?

The ideals of liberal Christianity only serve to lead you all to "put no difference between the holy and profane". It truly turns "grace" into "disgrace".

 

[GracePeace]

#GracePeace - why do you have a character from that disgusting "A Clockwork Orange" - a movie that promotes rape, murder, blasphemy, drugs, booze, etc.?

The ideals of liberal Christianity only serve to lead you all to "put no difference between the holy and profane". It truly turns "grace" into "disgrace".

I see the moment from the film, which I do not re-watch, as a moment of reckoning--what all these conversations are about.

 

[GracePeace]

The ideals of liberal Christianity only serve to lead you all to "put no difference between the holy and profane". It truly turns "grace" into "disgrace".

And what ever it is you believe in leads you to contradict the NT teachings, so you shouldn't being throwing stones. LOL

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

those who walk by the spirit fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law, as I've already stated so many times.

Since the old covenant was taken away so the New Covenant could be established, this is going to have to be the Law of Christ we are fulfilling and not the Law of Moses when we are walking in the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

 

[Phoneman777]

The Law has good commands, but we do not have goodness, so the Law is "weak" because it relies on sinful flesh (Ro 8:3; Gal 3:3); those who walk by the spirit fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law, as I've already stated so many times.

So, can I bow down and worship Satan? C'mon, either the Christian is obligated or not to keep the 1st commandment. So, are we free to disregard it or are we obligated to keep it?

Romans 2 refers to Gentile believers ("who show the work of the Law written on their hearts" "circumcision is in the heart by the Spirit" v29)--lost men do not fear God, so it doesn't refer to them.

And James says to all believers that if we kill, "thou art become a transgressor of the law" and he said that 30 years after Jesus ascended. I'm not sure what's your point.

The 4th Commandment doesn't pertain to me, it pertains to the old creation.

Are you among the "people of God"? If so, then:

"It is the DUTY of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" says Hebrews 4:9 to you.

Nothing you say is "plain" in Scripture, but contradicted at every turn.

LOL
Bro, I've done nothing but slaughter your points at every turn, such as forcing you to REFUSE to answer whether the Christian must obey the 1st commandment or is free to bow down and worship Satan.

I don't do so for sport - I'm trying to get you to THINK. You know full well we aren't at liberty to worship Satan because the Ten Commandments forbid it and Jesus Himself said, "If ye love Me, KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS".

 

[Phoneman777]

Since the old covenant was taken away so the New Covenant could be established, this is going to have to be the Law of Christ we are fulfilling and not the Law of Moses when we are walking in the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

New Covenant: "I will write MY LAWS in their minds and on their hearts".

So much for the idea that the Ten Commandments have nothing to do wtih the NC.

 

[GracePeace]

All that aside, Hebrews 4:9-10 KJV plainly teaches that if we're resting inwardly in Jesus, we'll demonstrate that inward rest by resting outwardly every Sabbath day.

I've never seen folks so opposed to things which the Bible plainly says we'll be doing for all eternity. If you hate keeping the Sabbath now, I suggest you reconsider whether you want to be in heaven keeping it for all eternity.

You are allergic to truth. The context shows that it has nothing to do with Sabbath keeping, because the "rest" is what the Israelites fell short of when God said "I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest" and "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts". It's talking about walking in obedience to God by faith. It's not about the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a "shadow" of things to come (Heb 10; Col 2:17).

Hebrews 4
1Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS”; 5and again in this passage, “THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.” 6Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[GracePeace]

Since the old covenant was taken away so the New Covenant could be established, this is going to have to be the Law of Christ we are fulfilling and not the Law of Moses when we are walking in the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

"The righteous requirement of the Law" refers to the righteous things the Law of Moses required--there is no other (righteous) "Law" in view in Romans.

 

[Phoneman777]

And what ever it is you believe in leads you to contradict the NT teachings, so you shouldn't being throwing stones. LOL

What contradictions? The Christian who is saved by grace will keep the law, period. "He that doeth righteousness is righteous".

You guys fight against doing right all day long.

 

[GracePeace]

New Covenant: "I will write MY LAWS in their minds and on their hearts".

So much for the idea that the Ten Commandments have nothing to do wtih the NC.

Romans 14 shows that observing a day as special is a personal matter, and is not binding on everyone, but you don't care, you're lawless against the Scripture.

 

[GracePeace]

What contradictions? The Christian who is saved by grace will keep the law, period. "He that doeth righteousness is righteous".

I leave it to the readers to read all the refutations I've already provided--you're definitely not reading them, or you are acting as if you aren't. LOL

 

[Phoneman777]

You are allergic to truth. The context shows that it has nothing to do with Sabbath keeping, because the "rest" is what the Israelites fell short of when God said "I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest" and "Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts". It's talking about walking in obedience to God by faith. It's not about the Sabbath. The Sabbath was a "shadow" of things to come (Heb 10; Col 2:17).

Hebrews 4
1Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.
3For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “AND GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS”; 5and again in this passage, “THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.” 6Therefore, since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience,
7He again fixes a certain day, “Today,” saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS.”
8For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.
14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

All that DOES NOTHING to overthrow verse 9! Verse 9 puts the stamp of approval of verses 1-8 which says we must enter the rest in Christ, of which yuou and I are in agreement.

Where you go wrong is refusing to admit that verse 9-10 plainly say if we're resting inwardly in Christ, we'll demonstrate that by resting outwardly every Sabbath day.

You've done NOTHING to answer this but to stubbornly hold fast to false "New Covenant" platitudes spewed from liberal pulpits all across the land.

The only difference between the OC and NC is where the law is written.

 

[GracePeace]

New Covenant: "I will write MY LAWS in their minds and on their hearts".

So much for the idea that the Ten Commandments have nothing to do wtih the NC.

Yeah, and apparently God has no "Law" concerning 7th Day Sabbath, since He never convicted me to keep it.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

the Christian is obligated or not to keep the 1st commandment

Under the New Covenant, it's not called the 1st commandment.

None the less, under the NT we are to put the Lord first in our lives and nothing should come before Him.

And James says to all believers that if we kill, "thou art become a transgressor of the law"

That would be transgressing the Law of Christ since Hebrews 10:9, and Hebrews 7:12 tell us the old covenant (along with the Law of Moses) has been taken away and a New Covenant has been establish with Jesus Christ as out High Priest which brings forth a change in the law from the Law of Moses to the Law of Christ which is what we live under now.

"It is the DUTY of the people of God to keep the Sabbath" says Hebrews 4:9 to you.

Hebrews 4:9 contains NO instructions to keep Saturday sabbath as you suppose.

Under the NT our rest is abiding IN Christ by faith and allowing Him to abide in us, leading and guiding us thru His Spirit which is something that is to be done by the Lord's faithful 24/7/365.... not just on Saturday.

 

[GracePeace]

All that DOES NOTHING to overthrow verse 9! Verse 9 puts the stamp of approval of verses 1-8 which says we must enter the rest in Christ, of which yuou and I are in agreement.

Where you go wrong is refusing to admit that verse 9-10 plainly say if we're resting inwardly in Christ, we'll demonstrate that by resting outwardly every Sabbath day.

You've done NOTHING to answer this but to stubbornly hold fast to false "New Covenant" platitudes spewed from liberal pulpits all across the land.

The only difference between the OC and NC is where the law is written.

LOL! Actually, all your empty rambling, and taking a single verse out of context, does nothing to convince someone who is appraised of the entire context.