Is it possible to lose salvation?
- Thread starter LoveYeshua
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
In the bible witnessing is most important and Paul secret meeting with Christ was not witnessed by anyone, you can verify this if you need. so take caution as the bible tells us witnesses will establish the truth os any matter not the words of one man. Use caution with some of Paul words, Christ is the Lord and we should listen to him 100% if Paul says something that seem to be different of what Christ said, use caution and discernment.
NO, remember in acts paul was arrested for speaking against the law, remwmber paul and Peter did not like one another, paul had to take the nazatite vow to prove himself!
Paul wanted all the attention and he got it to such an extent that many have forgotten the words of Christ,
are you saying Adam and EVE are eternally comdemned?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
He did change
1. On the way to Damascus
2. When God changed his name to paul.
he was the apostle to the gentiles and was martyred for his faith
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Remember paul had to rebuke peter because he did not do what he was supposed to as a follower of Christ. which was to treat all people the same ?
Paul did not want attention.. If he wanted attention, he had more than he could get as Saul.
What about Ananias, the disciple who Paul was instructed to go to? In Acts 9 "
10 "In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”
“Yes, Lord,” he answered.
11 "The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”
13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”
17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength."
Luke wrote the book of Acts, was he not of the Spirit of God?
Also, from what I have read, it is suggested that he was beheaded by the Romans, under Emperor Nero.
How does Pauls gospel differ from the gospel of Christ?
Paul was converted yes, he said wonderful things, yes but at some point he changed it is evident. for this I see a major difference in that Christ insists we keep the ccommandments ( yes the ten commandments) and paul's writings ""seem" to" or do say the contrary, there is a serious problem here. it cannot be both , there is only One truth! what it the truth here some will say they say the same thing but NOT!
it is early to figure out when you know the words of Paul and Christ unfortunately people forgot what Christ said, the fact that you ask what the differences are is the proof. I will prepare a short post as a reply so we can have a look.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If you live under the law, Christ's sacrifice is of no effect, and you live like the Jews. Jesus said the two most important commandments were to love The Lord thy God with all your heart and soul and mind and strength and the second, like unto it, love your neighbors and the rest of the 10 hangs off of these. I point to the cross to prove my salvation, not to me keeping laws written in stone.
"1 “The Ministry of Death”
Paul contrasted the ministry of Christ and his apostles with the ministry of Moses. Paul acknowledges the glory of the old covenant represented by the shining face of Moses when he came down from Mount Sinai. But he says the new covenant is “much more glorious” (2Corinthians 3:7-11).
There in 2Corinthians chapter 3, Paul also states that the old covenant was “ministry of death” and he specifically refers to what was “written and carved on stones” namely the ten commandments (2Corinthians 3:7).
If Paul considered the law of Moses, including the ten commandments, to be a ministry of death, how could he believe that any part of that old law was made part of the new? The new covenant replaced that old law; it did not include it.
2 Nailed to the Cross
Paul says of the old covenant that Christ “has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross” (Colossians 2:14). If Christ took it away, we must not put it back in.Now it may be that some commandments in the old covenant are like some commandments in the new. But we keep such commandments because they are in the law of Christ, his new covenant, not because they are in the law of Moses, the old covenant."
What did the New Covenant Replace? - Were the ten commandments retained?
The ten commandments, written on stone tablets, were part of the law given to Moses. It is commonly believed that these ten commandments were also incorporated, word for word, into new covenant of Christ. However this is contradicted by the New Testament scriptures.
simplybible.com
just look at the post no 111 here is an example;
"1 “The Ministry of Death”
Paul contrasted the ministry of Christ and his apostles with the ministry of Moses. Paul acknowledges the glory of the old covenant represented by the shining face of Moses when he came down from Mount Sinai. But he says the new covenant is “much more glorious” (2Corinthians 3:7-11).
There in 2Corinthians chapter 3, Paul also states that the old covenant was “ministry of death” and he specifically refers to what was “written and carved on stones” namely the ten commandments (2Corinthians 3:7).
If Paul considered the law of Moses, including the ten commandments, to be a ministry of death, how could he believe that any part of that old law was made part of the new? The new covenant replaced that old law; it did not include it.
yes paul did speak against the law and was arrested for this;
Acts 21:27-36
New King James Version
27 Now when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews from Asia, seeing him in the temple, stirred up the whole crowd and laid hands on him, 28 crying out, “Men of Israel, help! This is the man who teaches all men everywhere against the people, the law, and this place; and furthermore he also brought Greeks into the temple and has defiled this holy place.” 29 (For they had [a]previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian with him in the city, whom they supposed that Paul had brought into the temple.)Jesus upheld the law perfectly , magnified it and was teaching it in the temple!
Do you get it now?
Last edited:
As promised the differences between Paul and Christ, based on Facts and scripture only, not interpretations, I prepared this for you this afternoon;
Source of the Gospel — Jesus vs. Paul
Jesus' Gospel came directly from God the Father. He always spoke openly, with many witnesses. He taught in synagogues, on mountainsides, in homes, and in the temple — never in secret. His message was consistent, clear, and seen by all who followed or opposed Him.
“My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.” (John 7:16) “For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49) “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.” (John 18:20)
Jesus did not testify of Himself only. He gave multiple witnesses to confirm who He was and what He taught:
* John the Baptist (John 5:33)
* The works He did (John 5:36)
* The Father’s own voice (John 5:37)
* The Scriptures (John 5:39)
* Moses’ writings (John 5:46)
Jesus said clearly:
“If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.” (John 5:31)
This means even He, the Son of God, submitted to the rule of having multiple witnesses. This is a divine principle:
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.” (Matthew 18:16)
Paul’s “gospel,” on the other hand, came through a private vision that happened after Jesus had already ascended. There were no witnesses to verify what he claimed to see or hear. Paul even says he did not go to the other apostles to be taught, but instead preached based on what he believed was a revelation.
“But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11–12)
Absolutely No witnesses of these revelations that he received from Christ No witnesses at all!
“I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me.” (Galatians 1:16–17) all he said was from this revelations that no one ever witnessed.
His apostleship and gospel rest entirely on his own word, without public confirmation during the event.
This stands in direct contrast to Jesus and the twelve. While Jesus walked with His disciples, taught them openly, and gave them their mission face to face, Paul claimed his authority from a private, invisible experience.
Jesus warned us not to accept the word of one who testifies of himself alone. According to that standard, Paul’s gospel would not pass the test unless it fully matches Jesus’ words — which we will examine in the next points.
Obedience and Commandments — Jesus vs. Paul
Jesus: Obedience Is the Path to Life
Jesus taught that obeying God is not optional — it is the way to enter eternal life. Believing in Him means following His words, doing the will of the Father, and keeping the commandments. He never separated faith from obedience.
“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)
“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
Jesus warned that simply hearing the truth is not enough — a true disciple must obey. He compared it to building a house on rock:
“Whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock.” (Matthew 7:24)
Jesus also said that breaking or teaching others to break even the least of the commandments is a serious matter:
“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)
And He declared plainly:
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15)
For Jesus, obedience was not about ritual law or tradition, but about doing what is right according to God’s will. His gospel was a call to follow Him by living in truth, not just believing in name.
Paul: Justification Is By Faith Alone, Apart From the Law
Paul taught that a person is justified by faith without the works of the law. He repeated this many times, especially in Romans and Galatians. His focus was not on obedience to commandments, but on faith as the only requirement.
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” (Romans 10:4)
“You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)
“By the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight.” (Romans 3:20)
Paul even claimed that those who try to live by the law are under a curse:
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse.” (Galatians 3:10)
This directly contradicts Jesus, who said that keeping the commandments leads to life and breaking them leads to judgment. Jesus never said that obeying God’s law brings a curse — quite the opposite.
James: Faith Without Works Is Dead
James, the brother of Jesus, confirmed exactly what Jesus taught. He warned that faith without obedience is not true faith — it is dead.
“But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.” (James 1:22)
“What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?” (James 2:14)
“Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” (James 2:17)
“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24)
James did not add anything new. He simply repeated what Jesus had already made clear: obedience is the proof of faith. Believing without doing is self-deception.
“You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” (James 2:19)
Both Jesus and James are in full agreement: faith must be lived, not just spoken. Paul’s teaching of “faith without the law” stands in tension with this truth.
Summary of the Contrast:
Faith must be lived out in obedience Works of the law are not needed
Disobedience leads to judgment Trying to keep the law brings a curse
Be doers of the word Faith alone is enough for righteousness
Jesus said:
“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)
Paul said:
“A man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)
These are not the same gospel. Paul has his own gospel, he refers to it as MY gospel!
Rom 2:16 on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel. ( really?)
Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to strengthen you by my gospel and by the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery concealed for ages past. (Really?)
2Ti 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David, as proclaimed by my gospel,( really?)
I have more to say but will you or anybody else will want to hear the truth? let this sink in,
I urge everyone here to Listen and Follow Christ's teachings as it should, be directly from Jesus words our Master and No one else.
Source of the Gospel — Jesus vs. Paul
Jesus' Gospel came directly from God the Father. He always spoke openly, with many witnesses. He taught in synagogues, on mountainsides, in homes, and in the temple — never in secret. His message was consistent, clear, and seen by all who followed or opposed Him.
“My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.” (John 7:16) “For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49) “I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.” (John 18:20)
Jesus did not testify of Himself only. He gave multiple witnesses to confirm who He was and what He taught:
* John the Baptist (John 5:33)
* The works He did (John 5:36)
* The Father’s own voice (John 5:37)
* The Scriptures (John 5:39)
* Moses’ writings (John 5:46)
Jesus said clearly:
“If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.” (John 5:31)
This means even He, the Son of God, submitted to the rule of having multiple witnesses. This is a divine principle:
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.” (Matthew 18:16)
Paul’s “gospel,” on the other hand, came through a private vision that happened after Jesus had already ascended. There were no witnesses to verify what he claimed to see or hear. Paul even says he did not go to the other apostles to be taught, but instead preached based on what he believed was a revelation.
“But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11–12)
Absolutely No witnesses of these revelations that he received from Christ No witnesses at all!
“I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me.” (Galatians 1:16–17) all he said was from this revelations that no one ever witnessed.
His apostleship and gospel rest entirely on his own word, without public confirmation during the event.
This stands in direct contrast to Jesus and the twelve. While Jesus walked with His disciples, taught them openly, and gave them their mission face to face, Paul claimed his authority from a private, invisible experience.
Jesus warned us not to accept the word of one who testifies of himself alone. According to that standard, Paul’s gospel would not pass the test unless it fully matches Jesus’ words — which we will examine in the next points.
Obedience and Commandments — Jesus vs. Paul
Jesus: Obedience Is the Path to Life
Jesus taught that obeying God is not optional — it is the way to enter eternal life. Believing in Him means following His words, doing the will of the Father, and keeping the commandments. He never separated faith from obedience.
“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)
“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
Jesus warned that simply hearing the truth is not enough — a true disciple must obey. He compared it to building a house on rock:
“Whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock.” (Matthew 7:24)
Jesus also said that breaking or teaching others to break even the least of the commandments is a serious matter:
“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)
And He declared plainly:
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15)
For Jesus, obedience was not about ritual law or tradition, but about doing what is right according to God’s will. His gospel was a call to follow Him by living in truth, not just believing in name.
Paul: Justification Is By Faith Alone, Apart From the Law
Paul taught that a person is justified by faith without the works of the law. He repeated this many times, especially in Romans and Galatians. His focus was not on obedience to commandments, but on faith as the only requirement.
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” (Romans 10:4)
“You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)
“By the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight.” (Romans 3:20)
Paul even claimed that those who try to live by the law are under a curse:
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse.” (Galatians 3:10)
This directly contradicts Jesus, who said that keeping the commandments leads to life and breaking them leads to judgment. Jesus never said that obeying God’s law brings a curse — quite the opposite.
James: Faith Without Works Is Dead
James, the brother of Jesus, confirmed exactly what Jesus taught. He warned that faith without obedience is not true faith — it is dead.
“But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.” (James 1:22)
“What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?” (James 2:14)
“Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” (James 2:17)
“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24)
James did not add anything new. He simply repeated what Jesus had already made clear: obedience is the proof of faith. Believing without doing is self-deception.
“You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” (James 2:19)
Both Jesus and James are in full agreement: faith must be lived, not just spoken. Paul’s teaching of “faith without the law” stands in tension with this truth.
Summary of the Contrast:
Jesus & James | Paul |
Keep the commandments to enter life | Justified by faith, not by the law |
Faith must be lived out in obedience | Works of the law are not needed |
Disobedience leads to judgment | Trying to keep the law brings a curse |
Be doers of the word | Faith alone is enough for righteousness |
Keep the commandments to enter life Justified by faith, not by the lawFaith must be lived out in obedience Works of the law are not needed
Disobedience leads to judgment Trying to keep the law brings a curse
Be doers of the word Faith alone is enough for righteousness
Jesus said:
“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)
Paul said:
“A man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)
These are not the same gospel. Paul has his own gospel, he refers to it as MY gospel!
Rom 2:16 on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel. ( really?)
Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to strengthen you by my gospel and by the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery concealed for ages past. (Really?)
2Ti 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David, as proclaimed by my gospel,( really?)
I have more to say but will you or anybody else will want to hear the truth? let this sink in,
I urge everyone here to Listen and Follow Christ's teachings as it should, be directly from Jesus words our Master and No one else.
Last edited:
Did you know Peter was chosen by God to proclaim the gospel to the gentiles?
Act 15:7 After much discussion, Peter got up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you that the Gentiles would hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
bro.tan
Active Member
- Dec 11, 2010
- 828
- 152
- 43
- 52
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.
Do not let anyone convince you that it's wrong to keep God's commandments. Don't let anyone deprive you of the opportunity to receive eternal life. We were deprived of this opportunity once, but the death of Jesus has given us another chance. All have sinned (broken the law...Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law (I John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). When Jesus (the true Lamb of God) was sacrificed, he removed our past sins. If we accept Jesus as our sin offering, we are required to repent and get baptized IN THE NAME OF JESUS ("there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved..."(Acts 4: 12). This is our last chance Brothers and Sister.
To repent means to turn from our sinful ways and start obeying God's law. The water baptism signifies the washing away of our past sins. After repenting and being baptized in the name of Jesus, it would be foolish for us to turn around and willingly break God's commandments. If we make an honest mistake Jesus can help us, but if we sin willingly, look out! "...there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation..." (Hebrews 10:26-27). When Jesus died only the sacrificial law was done away with, alone with Leviticus priesthood.
bro.tan
Active Member
- Dec 11, 2010
- 828
- 152
- 43
- 52
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Can you share some verses or scriptures concerning your post?
Jesus lived under the OT era. the Gospels are about Jesus in the OT. That is how he was able to fulfill the Law. And that is why the writer of Hebrews says that the Mosaic Law has become obsolete.
you are really obstinate, this is false doctrine!, what do you think Jesus the son of GOD came to do? he was tie ultimate sacrifice that sealed with HIS BLOOD for you! and for us all the new covenant! he started the new covenant !!!!how can you say Jesus was in the O.T? ridiculous! where did you get this false doctrine from?
Thank you for taking the time to explain your reasoning. This is a lot to take in since believing Paul was from God since decades past.
I will save your post and have to do much praying on all of this.
One question comes to mind, why would Paul suffer persecution (as told in Acts and other places) if he were false teacher?
Thank you for your feedback, I have much to mull over in my mind and heart, thank you.
Behold
Well-Known Member
God shed the blood of 2 animals, and put those skins on them both.
So, that was their temporary pardon., but not their eternal redemption, as this is only Achieved when Jesus dies on The Cross.
They had to wait.
Jesus defines the place they waited , along with all the other OT saints as "Parasise' that is : "Abraham's bosom".
Remember that Jesus told the dying Thief...>"today you will be with Me, IN Paradise".....yet Jesus was dead for 3 days.
So, where is "paradise"?.. Its where those OT Saints were waiting
Peter teaches this as..."""""""Jesus, "made alive in the spirit," "went and preached to the spirits in prison.""""""
Similar threads
