Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Marvelloustime]

There is great need for this next reminder for us all to ponder on and take heed unto my friend .
To appease and please man only destroys him . And friend if we have the LOVE of GOD in us
I just gotta say , ITS TIME TO WARN all to go not near , enter not into
Dangerous places and of men who teach naught but destuction and death unto its peoples .
Now this might suprise you , or maybe not ,
But there was a church doing a whole lotta good
BUT MAN did GOD still have a big problem with it .
What was it doing you might ask . ALLOWING a false one to teach and to seduce .
NOW this is highly serious stuff . Naming names IS NEEDFUL and exposing all false doctrine is as well .
SO on that note , LET no man , woman or child enter into the RCC
enter into the mormon camp , the jw , Or nar realm . YES the nar realm is highly full of death and deceptoin .
And my all out dire reminder is , DO NOT in any way support , or support any
WHO has ANYTHING to DO WITH INTERFAITH , coexist , all inclusive , social gospel
LOvey do fake unity . cause thier unity AINT UNDER GOD . AND how do i know it aint .
HOW do i know their love , their unity , their etc is NOT CHRIST centered .
I SEEN firsthand what its interreligious dilagoue common ground finding leaders
SAID . AND IT DARN SURE WAS NOT the GOSPEL to them lost religoins .
IT WAS A FAT ANTI CHRIST LIE . And friend , I DONT make my bed with that which is of anti christ
NO matter how much it hollers OH THIS IS FOR PEACE N SAFETY , THIS IS HOW WE GONNA GET WORLD peace
IN fact may i remind us all again , JESUS never came to bring peace on earth but rather divisoins .
BUT anti christ co workers say , WE have come to bring world peace and lets cast ASIDE this DIVISION
and find common ground . AS they even kicked the gospel OUT . FRIEND , GOD DOES NOT SUCH THING .
But HE who desires to be as GOD sure would and sure does . Cause HE desires the death of all .

@amigo de christo

 

[GodsGrace]

I assume you have a print Bible. Yes? Perhaps even a digital one on your p.c.? There's Bible Gateway online, or Blue Letter Bible. Can you not access them?

What I asked you is to please use scripture.
THIS is how scripture is used:
Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

I thank you for the consideration and for properly quoting scripture.

I find your confusion here very odd. Perhaps you're expecting that I hold to antinomianism, or I'm a "free grace" person who thinks salvation is a license to sin. I'm not. When I say a Christian may still choose to live in sin I am NOT indicating that any Christian SHOULD do so, or that God is okay with the Christian who lives according to the dictates of their old, unregenerate Self. Of course not. I mean only that the born-again person has a sin-nature as well as a new nature in Christ and that these war against each other within the Christian (Ga. 5:17), as Paul described in Romans 7:14-22. Neither nature has an overwhelming, compelling power over the Christian person, which is why they choose one or the other to follow every day.

Not confused at all.
I believe Christians are to FOLLOW Jesus.
Those that follow Jesus are not confused as to whether or not they are to obey Jesus.
You state the following above:
"Neither nature has an overwhelming, compelling power over the Christian person, which is why they choose one or the other to follow every day."

You see Kokyu, Christianity teaches that we DO have power over our sin nature.
YOU say a person chooses one nature over the other every day.
No.. I do not agree.
Christianity teaches that we are to choose the spirit nature that has been gifted to us by God...
NOT our sinful nature which is supposed to be under submission.
Galatians 5.16
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.


Paul teaches that we are to walk BY THE SPIRIT so that we WILL NOT carry out the desire of the flesh.
He states what the desires of the flesh are.
Galatians 5:19-21a
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you,


Then Paul tells us that the above will not see heaven.
Galatians 5:21b
just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


As you can see, those that practice the fleshly things WILL NOT be seeing heaven.

So it's incorrect for you to state that we have a choice.
The choice for the Christian person is to follow Jesus and the advice of Paul in all of his letters.

The better question, I think, is: How can they not? Anyway, no Christian should be directed by the old Self as Romans 6:1-11 explains, but many, if not most, are directed by it because they understand next-to-nothing of Romans 6, Galatians 2:20; 5:16, 25, Philippians 2:13 or Romans 8:9-14.

Well, you haven't posted scripture so I won't reply to it specifically.

But you use the word SHOULD....
In Christianity, one is either living the Christian life or he is not.
If he is not, he is not abiding in Christ.
If we're not abiding in Christ, we will not see heaven because JESUS IS LIFE...
without the life, we will be dead. (spiritually).

1 John 2:6
Whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

1 John 3:24
Whoever keeps his commandments abides in God, and God in him. And by this we know that he abides in us, by the Spirit whom he has given us.

John 15:10
If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

What you've written above is a glaring non sequitur. Why would I "like" the terrible struggle Paul described in Romans 7? Why would my reference to it necessarily mean I "like it"? I've referenced murder, adultery, homosexuality, lying, even human sacrifice in various forum posts I've made over the last twenty years but never in approval of these things. Does the oncologist who speaks of his patient's tumor do so because he likes the tumor? Is the police officer who speaks in court of the details of a murder expressing, therefore, that he likes murder? I'm sure you'd say not.

You posted a verse...Romans 7:14-22
I asked you why you posted it, or what you believe it means.
If you posted it, you must like it.

Since you didn't explain WHAT you think it means,,,or WHY you posted it,
it's impossible for me to reply to your above questions.

I already pointed out what he actually wrote. And he wrote nothing about a Christian losing their salvation. He wrote that if they did not remain steadfast in their faith they would not be presented holy, blameless and unreproveable at the Final Judgment but this isn't to say they would be unsaved.

Interesting.
So a person could be presented, at the final judgment, NOT steadfast in their fatih (which means they have no faith), NOT holy,
NOT blameless and reprovable....but they would still end up in heaven.

Yes. The OSAS crowd does seem to come up with these odd statements that reject everything taught by Jesus, Paul and every other writer that taught that we must obey God in order to be saved...be blameless before Him, and have faith in Him.

Whosoever BELIEVES will be saved.
Notice how BELIEVE is in the present tense.
§We must be believing at our death....
NOT at some time many years before after which we walked away from God
or stopped obeying Him.


John said:
John 20:30-31
30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book;
31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.


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[GodsGrace]

@Kokyu


page 2 of 2

If Paul had wanted to say such a thing, he could - and would - have done so explicitly and plainly, which he never does. Instead, folks like yourself misconstrue or stretch his words to mean salvation-lost. But your willingness to impose this meaning on his words in no way obliges me to go along with you in doing so.

Of course you don't have to go along with what I believe...
but let's see what Paul taught...please notice that there will be no statement by me:


1 Timothy 4:1
1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,


Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6 and then have fallen away,,,,


Hebrews 3:12
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.


1 Timothy 4:16
16 Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.


1 Corinthians 9:27
27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.


There are more but the above should suffice.
And as to your belief that a CHRISTIAN person can decide to either follow the spirit or not, Paul warns:


Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment ...


Paul warns that salvation can be lost.
§For those reading along, I think it would be best to follow the teachings of Paul instead of trying to change what the above verses mean.

What is there to explain, exactly? Paul could not have been more plain in his language in the verse. Shall I just repeat what he said in my own words? Is this what you're wanting?

Apparently, you and Paul do not agree.

I repeat:
Paul warns that salvation can be lost.
§For those reading along, I think it would be best to follow the teachings of Paul instead of trying to change what the above verses mean.

Yes, Paul wrote what you say he did in the first sentence above. But he most certainly did NOT write - or mean - what you've asserted in the second sentence. If Paul had meant to say that not remaining steadfast dissolved one's salvation, he was more than capable of stating that clearly and plainly. But he did NOT write this. He wrote only of a bad showing at the Final Judgment, not the loss of one's salvation (See 1 Co. 3:11-15). There is NOTHING in the text of the verse that requires the "in other words" that you're asserting. Nothing. You're simply forcing your saved-and-lost presupposition onto Paul's words, as far as I can see.

The above verses speak for themselves.



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[GodsGrace]

See above. They only "say this" once you've forced a saved-and-lost construction upon their words.



No, you post Scripture and then add your own saved-and-lost spin to it; you don't "just post Scripture." See above.

I wish Scripture was, for you, as you think it is. But the eisegetical warping that you're doing to Scripture suggests it's understood by you - in respect to this question of eternal security, at least - very poorly.



Where is the "must" in this verse? As in other instances with the proof-texts you've offered, you're adding words to, you're imposing meaning upon, what is written. Paul did NOT say we must be blameless and holy when we stand before God at the Final Judgment.



Well, your merely saying it doesn't mean what I think it means doesn't make it so. I have "looked it up" many times and, because I understand what John wrote, I referred to 1 John 1:19 as I did in a perfectly appropriate way.

1 John 2:18-19
18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

Who's in view in this passage? Antichrists. John says that they are exposed as such when they leave the Body of Believers. Were these antichrists themselves born-again believers? John wrote that "...they were not really of us..." for if they had been, they'd have remained within the Church. These are the "false brethren" of whom Paul spoke (2 Co. 11:26; Ga. 2:4), the "tares" Jesus said would be in the kingdom of God (Matt. 13:36-43), the "false prophets/teachers" in the Church of whom Peter warned so stridently (2 Pe. 2). And one of the ways they reveal what they really are is by their going out from the Church at some point.

So, John lays out a general principle in verse 19: If a person departs the Church/the faith, they reveal they were never really of God's family and kingdom. I come to this conclusion without having to add anything to what John wrote; I just take his words exactly as they're written.



Hebrews 3:12 doesn't say "REMAIN IN THE FAITH." The writer of Hebrews warns against "an evil, unbelieving heart" that leads to "falling away from the living God," but the writer nowhere in the verse wrote "REMAIN IN THE FAITH." Anyway, what does the writer mean by "falling away"? I think he indicates very clearly exactly what he means: taking up an unbelieving heart and being hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

The writer of Hebrews was actually referring to what the Israelites did when they finally arrived at the border of Canaan. They took up an "evil heart of unbelief" and refused to go in and take the Promised Land to which God had led them (See Numbers 13-14). Having "fallen away" from God in this manner, refusing to believe His promise and enter Canaan, did God abandon Israel or cast them away as a nation that was no longer His? Not at all. Instead, for the next forty years, He supplied for, and preserved His Chosen People while they wandered in the wilderness.

What does "falling away" mean, then, in this context? Lost salvation? No. It means the loss, not of one's relationship to God, but of all the benefits of the spiritual Promised Land in Christ, obtained in faith-filled fellowship with God. I think of it this way: If I own a lawnmower but come to believe I can do a better job trimming my grass with a pair of nail-clippers, do I cease to own the lawnmower? No, I cannot enjoy the benefits of the lawnmower if I don't believe it can cut my grass better than a pair of nail-clippers, but I still possess my lawnmower.

So, too, the Christian who "falls away" from God in unbelief. Like the disbelieving Israelites, the Christian doesn't cease to be in relationship with God, but s/he does cease to enjoy the spiritual benefits of their "Promised Land" in Jesus Christ. And, of course, God is very displeased by this state-of-affairs, too.



But Hebrews 3:12 doesn't say anything about falling away from the faith. This is another of your additions to the text of Scripture. You're assuming that "fall away from the living God" means "fall away from the faith" but, as I explained above, this isn't the case.

Who is twisting words K??

If a person is falling away from the faith, WHAT does it mean to YOU?

If you fall away from something,
it means you had something...
and then you fell away from it.

If faith is needed to be saved...
and a person FALLS AWAY from the faith....
is he still saved?

No.

Why warn persons in the NT about something that cannot happen.

Let's not forget:

Romans 11:20-22
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited *, but fear;

21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, you don't "just post Scripture." I've already demonstrated that this isn't so in my last couple of posts to you.

The instance of the withering of the fig tree, described only in Matthew's and Mark's Gospels, was not about losing one's salvation but about the power of faith.

Matthew 21:18-22
18 Now in the morning, when He was returning to the city, He became hungry.
19 Seeing a lone fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it except leaves only; and He *said to it, "No longer shall there ever be any fruit from you." And at once the fig tree withered.
20 Seeing this, the disciples were amazed and asked, "How did the fig tree wither all at once?"
21 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.
22 "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."

Mark 11:20-24
20 As they were passing by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered from the roots up.
21 Being reminded, Peter *said to Him, "Rabbi, look, the fig tree which You cursed has withered."
22 And Jesus *answered saying to them, "Have faith in God.
23 "Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.
24 "Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.

I don't see, then, why you've added this occasion to your repertoire of proof-texts concerning losing salvation. In neither account is there any fig tree cut down and thus suggesting a connection to John 15:6. There is, though, this parable Jesus told:

Luke 13:6-9
6 And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
7 "And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'
8 "And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;
9 and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

This casts quite a different light upon John 15:1-6, it seems to me. The unfruitful branch had been so for three years before the owner of the vineyard complained about it. Even, then, the owner agrees to the branch being carefully nurtured and nourished for a further year before it is discarded as useless. At the very least, if the owner represents God, we see in the parable that God is not at all quick to cut down useless "branches." He is willing, instead, to give them much time and nurturing in order that they might "bear fruit."

In context, this parable has to do with Israel, not Christians. Some Jews had told Jesus about Pilate killing Galileans and he responded to their news by reminding them of the tower of Siloam falling on, and killing, eighteen men, saying to the Jews that they were no more righteous as men of Jerusalem (i.e. Jews) than the killed men were and would die in their sins if they did not repent. Immediately upon saying this, Jesus offers the above parable. Why?

Well, was Jesus speaking to born-again Christians? No, he's speaking to a crowd mostly of Jews. Was Jesus explaining salvation and how to be born-again and stay born-again? No. Did Jesus say anything about his salvific work on the cross, or the indwelling Holy Spirit? No. Why, then, should anyone think Jesus was teaching about salvation and living as a born-again child of God? He was addressing "his own" (Jn. 1:11) - the Jews - warning them that God would not forever tolerate their spiritual unfruitfulness. Jesus the vine-keeper would dig around and fertilize the unfruitful branches of Israel with his own life and blood, but if this did not cause them to bear "fruit," they would be "cut down."

John 15:2 mistranslates airo - Gk. "lifts, or bears up" - as "takes away." Not only does "takes away" not comport with what Jesus described of the actions of the vinedresser in the parable of the unfruitful fig tree above, but "takes away" doesn't fit with the viticultural practices of the time (See: Pliny the Younger). Commonly, a vine branch that was not bearing fruit was lifted up onto a supporting structure, where it could get more sunlight, avoid the rotting damp of the ground and various pests that would damage it. In addition to this, airo is translated as "lift" or "bear up" in a number of places in the NT.


Greek Word: αἴρω
Transliteration: airō
Phonetic Pronunciation: ah'-ee-roh
Root: a primary root
Part of Speech: v

Vine's Words: Bear, Doubt (be in; make to), Doubtful, Doubting, Hoise up, Hoist up, Lift, Put, Take

Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:

take up 32
lift up 4
bear 3

a primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figurative to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); Hebrew [compare <H5375> (nasa')] to expiate sin :- away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up).

(Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.)

I've run out of time to write more, Perhaps later.

Yes, I've heard of the "mistranslation" of John 15:2 to mean LIFT UP instead of TAKE AWAY.
The actual word is SEVER....TO CUT OFF.

I don't need to use Strong's because the verses,,,,ALL of the verses I post, speak for themselves....
no twisting required.

Go back to Strong's and LIST ALL of the words that airo can mean....
you'll find that TAKE AWAY is one of them...you just have neglected to list it above.

As to Jesus waiting for the fig tree to produce fruit...

Are you now stating that we CAN SIN because God will be merciful and have patience with us?

Is it so difficult for you, a non-antonian, to state that WE MUST OBEY GOD?

Why is it so easy for me to state that we must obey God....
but YOU must try to get by every verse that states this??

WHAT is the reason?
Are you fearful of obedience to God?
Do you think we can live a life of sin and still get to heaven?
Are you here to misdirect new Christians into believing no transformation in necessary?


Romans 6:15-18
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

18 and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.




Romans 12:1-2
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Kokyu

Hi K,,,
you don't have to reply to this..
There's plenty up above.

But I just found it when closing down...I thought I had lost it.
Since I took the time to write it, I just thought I'd send it along.

'night.

Jesus never said in verse 6 "If the saved person no longer abides in Me," or "If you no longer abide in me," or "If you cease to abide in me." No, he spoke of "anyone," not his disciples specifically, and said, "Does not abide in me" rather than "no longer abides," or "ceases to abide." Verse 6, then, doesn't describe a single person moving from one condition to another - from abiding to not abiding. Verse 6 stands in contrasting parallel to the person who abides in Christ (i.e. is saved). This is the yet-to-be-saved person, the lost person, who, if s/her remains so, is "cast into the fire and burned."

Perhaps you neglected to read John 15 from the beginning.

Here it is again in Jesus own words .


John 15:1-5

1 "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.​

2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.


3 "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.


4 "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot * bear fruit of itself unless * it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless * you abide in Me.


5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing *.


6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.



Verse 2 states that any branch that does not bear fruit will be taken away.


Verse 4 states that we cannot bear fruit unless we abide in Christ. Abide means to live with. Jesus says we cannot bear fruit UNLESS WE ABIDE IN HIM. And, in verse 2 He states that every branch IN JESUS that does NOT bear fruit will be taken away.


Verse 5 states that the person that abides in Christ will bear much fruit. Apart from Christ we can do nothing.

APART FROM CHRIST we can do nothing. We must ABIDE IN CHRIST in order to be able to bear fruit and NOT BE TAKEN AWAY.




Verse 6 Jesus WARNS that IF we DO NOT abide in Him,,,we will be thrown away as a branch and cast into the fire and burned.




You may attempt to twist the words to suit your needs...

but JESUS is clear in what He means.



IF we do not abide in Him,,,,we are incapable of producing fruit and will be taken away and burned like a branch that does not produce fruit. (verse 2, 6)

2 John 1:7-11

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;

11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Who's in view in John's remarks here? Deceivers, who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus Christ came in the flesh (vs. 7). What's at stake if John's readers are taken in by these deceivers? Their heavenly reward. Is this reward the same thing as their salvation? No. See 1 Corinthians 3:11-15. One can lose all of one's reward and still be saved. And, as well, salvation is a gift, not a reward.

Jesus didn't not teach the Kingdom of Heaven for rewards, although we will be receiving them.

Jesus taught that if we go too far and do NOT ABIDE in the teachings of Christ...

we do NOT HAVE GOD. Verse 9.

If we DO NOT HAVE GOD...

we are not saved.





1 Corinthians 3:11-15


Please read these verses again.


They are referring to the works of the Apostles, in this case Paul and Apollos.

Romans 5:15

15 But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many.

The gift of salvation is certainly free.


But YOU have made the claim that a CHRISTIAN person can choose to obey Jesus or not due to his sinful nature and his spiritual nature. THIS is NOT what Jesus taught. Explained above.


Because the gift is free,


does not give a person the right to abuse it and still claim to be a follower of Jesus.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Agreed. The gift of eternal life is THROUGH JESUS.


This is why we must continue to abide in Him till the end.



Matthew 24:11-13

11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.​

12 "Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold.


13 "But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Ephesians 2:8

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

A reward is earned but a gift is not. God gives to us His Son and salvation in him to us freely, as a gift, when we were yet sinners, weak, "dead in trespasses and sins," "foolish, disobedient and deceived" (Ro. 5:6; Eph. 2:1; Tit. 3:3). When John wrote of "a full reward," then, he could not have meant salvation which no one deserves, no one can earn and which God offers to us purely as an expression of His love, grace and mercy.

Again, you don't post verses.


No one deserves salvation.


But we have it.


So we should respect the gift God has given to us and not teach that it could be misused,


as some do by stating that we can be saved NO MATTER WHAT,,,,,which YOU have done with your statements.





If you don't wish to be known as a follower of Antonine why not make that clear and state that we are to obey God?

In any case, the "anyone" who "goes too far" and "does not abide in the teaching of Christ" does not lose God, s/he does not become lost again. Instead, what John wrote was that such a person - a deceiver, not a believer - "does not have God," not "no longer has God," or "ceases to have God." John, then, is not writing about how one could lose one's salvation but about the never-saved deceiver who must be refused entrance into a Christian's home.

Twisting words will get you nowhere.
The message of the bible is clear.





1. We must believe in God.


John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.




2. We must obey God.
John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."



John 15:14
14 "You are My friends if you do what I command you.




We must believe in God
We must obey God.



(sorry - it got messed up!)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What if i told you that many within christendom now follow another jesus .
IN fact they would call the TRUE JESUS a hater . holler he knows neither GOD or love and needs , their version o jesus .
Because this is a solid fact .
SO the question now is
WHAT JESUS or jesus have we been following .
TO check to see , I SUGGEST BIBLES GET OPENED and we see HOW HE did things
and then later how the apostels did things .
BE SURE and ask yourself , as we read their warnings against sin
WHY COME my pastors always tell anyone who even tries to warn against sin
HEY DUDE stop hating , judge not
Come on man GOD is love . OH I KNOW GOD IS LOVE but i also know MANY know NEITHER GOD OR HIS LOVE .
This dire urgent reminder is not to condemn anyone , BUT TO alert us all
and get this people back into the bible to learn for themselves . GONNA SEE A WHOLE
different approach to SIN and UNBELIEF from BOTH CHRIST and the apostels .
I TELL US ALL we gonna be SHOCKED BIG TIME to see JUST HOW DIFFERENT THEIR APPROACH was
TO THIS JUDGE NOT CORRECT NOT sold out pack is today . And we wonder why its got so bad
and KEEPS on getting worse .

Well as I was not appointed to determine who is and is not following another Jesus as you seem to have been, I can only say that has been true since shortly after Pentecost! those that are were never saved to start with, they are the tares, the goats and wolves in sheep clothing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Heres a well known fact .
DO you wanna know who it bothers to have sin exposed .......
ANYONE IN SIN . THAT IS WHY they hate any kind of reminder of sin or anyone elses sin too .
They DONT want theirs exposed . MANY want to beleive all is well as is
BUT IT DARN sure aint .
This probably sounds like hate speech of a monster to many . But its true .
THE VICTIM CARD is a sinners love card
and in the church it came under the guise of judge not correct not , tolerance , . BOY do sinners who love sin
LOVE THAT CARD Very well and hate anything and anyone that would dare to actually speak against sins
to correct sins in the church . Gotta say , NO WONDER THE churches are falling .
LEAVEN LEAVENS . and if sin and error is not corrected , IT BECOMES accepted .
AND LEAVEN brings ONLY more leaven and they go only deeper into darkness , saying OH ITS LIGHT , WE FINALLY SEE .
You get the point .

And your point here is? It is true but so why are you bringing it up again?