Is it possible to lose salvation?

[BreadOfLife]

It proves the priesthood is a crock.

Wanne bet??

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest (Lev. 16, Haggai 1:12-14 S).
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Lev. 16).
- The rest of the people were a General priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The General priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

In Rom 15:15-16, Paul uses the word “Hierurgeo”, which is the verb form of the Greek “Hierus” (priests) – the SAME word used for “priest” throughout the NT.

Rom 15:15-16:
But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

 

[MonoBiblical]

That’s either a LIE - or just another ignorant statement. . .

It was the Catholic Church that gave us the Canon of Scripture.

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

Alot copy and pasting which proves nothing.

Paul didn’t pigeonhole the entire Word of God into ONLY what is written.

In 2 Thess., he goes on to say that Sacred Oral Tradition is ON PAR with Scripture:

2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a LETTER from us."

The Word of God is passed on thtough His Church – by what ius written and spoken.

This's because he lived with the eye-witnesses of Jesus' life. You lamely claim only Rome is the Church. Pathetic.

The Greek word used here for “office” is ep-is-kop-ay', which means Bishopric.

It means overseer or overwatch. A leader. And elder is just an old person. Thus wrong again.

What Church does that sound like??

It sounds like you are proving nothing with thy mouth.

Are you really this ignorant – or are you just pulling my leg?

Oral tradition always gets written. Stop believing in Darwinism!

 

[MonoBiblical]

Wanne bet??

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest (Lev. 16, Haggai 1:12-14 S).
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Lev. 16).
- The rest of the people were a General priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The General priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

In Rom 15:15-16, Paul uses the word “Hierurgeo”, which is the verb form of the Greek “Hierus” (priests) – the SAME word used for “priest” throughout the NT.

Rom 15:15-16:
But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

A Bishop or an Elder is not the equivalent of Priest. If anything, an Elder is an elected official on the Sanhedrin as it is now called. Unelected clergy are unaccountable.

 

[pandaflower]

We’ll address that – as soon as YOU show me where Sola Scriptura is taught in the Bible . . .

I have. Repeatedly.

I accept you cannot show evidence in scripture of Sola Scriptura Romanus.
That's because it doesn't exist.

Thanks.

 

[MonoBiblical]

I have. Repeatedly.

I accept you cannot show evidence in scripture of Sola Scriptura Romanus.
That's because it doesn't exist.

Thanks.

When Moses' name is mentioned in the Pentateuch, that is the essence of Sola Scriptura.

 

[pandaflower]

When Moses' name is mentioned in the Pentateuch, that is the essence of Sola Scriptura.

Understanding Sola Scriptura​

Definition of Sola Scriptura​

Sola Scriptura, meaning "by Scripture alone," is a doctrine primarily associated with Protestant Christianity. It asserts that the Bible is the sole infallible authority for Christian faith and practice. This principle emerged during the Protestant Reformation, emphasizing that all teachings and traditions must align with Scripture.

Moses in the Pentateuch​

Moses is a central figure in the Pentateuch, which comprises the first five books of the Bible: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. His name appears frequently, highlighting his role as a prophet and lawgiver. The teachings and laws attributed to Moses are foundational to both Jewish and Christian traditions.

Relation to Sola Scriptura​

The mention of Moses in the Pentateuch underscores the importance of Scripture in the Sola Scriptura doctrine. It emphasizes that the teachings and laws given through Moses are authoritative and should guide the faith and practices of believers. However, Sola Scriptura also posits that while Scripture is the ultimate authority, it does not exclude the role of tradition and interpretation in understanding the text.

Conclusion​

In summary, while Moses' name in the Pentateuch is significant, Sola Scriptura encompasses a broader principle that prioritizes the Bible as the ultimate source of authority in Christian faith, asserting that all teachings must be evaluated against Scripture.

• Wikipedia
• adamncrawford.com

 

[Ronald Nolette]

but by the will of God

John 3, Whoeever believes
John 4, Whoever asks
John 5, Whoever sees and believes
John 6 Whoever eats, whoever sees and believes, whoever gnaws and chews..

John made it clear.. I do not use John 1: 12 as a standalone, it is the message not only of John but of Christ

And once again your predisposition to think an unsaved person canof their own human senses choose god.

but your error is that you are looking at these statements wrong!

Yes whosoever will receive.
Jesus knows all the whosoevers, but instead of listing them all by name down through the millennia He merely gives a generic statement.

Yes whosoever will receive. but not one hint or implication on how, when, wwhere, why they will receive.

Once again you must surmount these biblical obstacled to support the unsaved having free will.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
If the unsaved in his unsaved state thinks the things of God are foolish- how and why would He choose them.

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
How can teh unsaved man please god by accepting christ when the bible says he cannot please god.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The natural man is against God. How will he choose what he is against?

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Scrip[ture plainly tells us we did not choose god, but He chose us!

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many
He knew ua in advance because He chose us, then He predestinated us!

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Another clear statement- we did not choose HIm, but He chose us!

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
We cannot come to Jesus, unless compelled to do so by the Father!

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
We cannot come to Jesus, uless we were given to Him by the Father.

Now, in light of these biblical truths, show me scripture that clearly says an unsaved person can freely choose god in their unsaved state

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Thats when it was formalized by the church. Ignatius was preaching it long before then and not just him.

I cor 11:29

For a person who eats and drinks without discerning the body of the Lord is eating and drinking judgment oh himself.

I won't call you a liar.

The sedar where they actually ate the flesh of the unblemished land.

Well Jesus did not hold up a lamb chop and said this is my body.
He held up a particular piece of bread found in teh seder.
He also held up a specific cup of wine and said this is my blood. All the elements of the seder had deep symbolic significance and Jesus was pointing out that specific piece opf unleavened bread and that particular cup of wine and told them what they signified!

 

[nedsk]

your not just reading, because your accusing people of being wrong. so your interpreting.

I believe jesus meant what he said. everything (not just the few words you keep posting) why don't you?

Oh right that osas nonsense.

Well Jesus did not hold up a lamb chop and said this is my body.
He held up a particular piece of bread found in teh seder.
He also held up a specific cup of wine and said this is my blood. All the elements of the seder had deep symbolic significance and Jesus was pointing out that specific piece opf unleavened bread and that particular cup of wine and told them what they signified!

Ok so? He declared that the bread was his flesh and that unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood you have no life within you.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And once again your predisposition to think an unsaved person canof their own human senses choose god.

I never said they could.

but your error is that you are looking at these statements wrong!

Your error is you think you understand what I said

Yes whosoever will receive.
Jesus knows all the whosoevers, but instead of listing them all by name down through the millennia He merely gives a generic statement.

Yes, by his foreknowledge

Yes whosoever will receive. but not one hint or implication on how, when, wwhere, why they will receive.

does not need to say how when or where only that they will believe

Once again you must surmount these biblical obstacled to support the unsaved having free will.

lol

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
If the unsaved in his unsaved state thinks the things of God are foolish- how and why would He choose them.

Your right they can not. thats why God has to act on them to help them understand

God does not force. But he will not hold back either.

Romans 8:8
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
How can teh unsaved man please god by accepting christ when the bible says he cannot please god.

If you are saved, and you are in the flesh. you can not please God..

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
The natural man is against God. How will he choose what he is against?

Same as above

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Scrip[ture plainly tells us we did not choose god, but He chose us!

Amen. Nothing against free will here

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many
He knew ua in advance because He chose us, then He predestinated us!

Yes he knew..

knew what?

Those who would believe

or as Jesus said, whoever sees and believes

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
Another clear statement- we did not choose HIm, but He chose us!

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
We cannot come to Jesus, unless compelled to do so by the Father!

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
We cannot come to Jesus, uless we were given to Him by the Father.

Now, in light of these biblical truths, show me scripture that clearly says an unsaved person can freely choose god in their unsaved state

You have not proven me wrong..

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Oh right that osas nonsense.

Well that is the bible teaching you are calling nonsense!

Funny how He said that phrase nearly 2 years before the Last supper. No one even is quoted as questioning Him what He meant.

 

[pandaflower]

all it takes is one sin

For what?

 

[nedsk]

Well that is the bible teaching you are calling nonsense!

Funny how He said that phrase nearly 2 years before the Last supper. No one even is quoted as questioning Him what He meant.

Where does the Bible teach osas?

What does that matter? You've decided there's a deadline on when Jesus speaks? Hilarious. Did he have to get permission from you to do miracles too?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes, by his foreknowledge

now go look up foreknowledge in teh Koine Greek and learn it means knowledge through preplanning.

It is the word "pro-ginosko" where we get our word prognosis from. A doctor knows the outcome because He knows what he will do and the results of His actions, not the patients.

does not need to say how when or where only that they will believe

but in the argument fo free will/predestination, it is necessary to know how one believes.

If you are saved, and you are in the flesh. you can not please God..

Yes, but we are saved and already crossed from death to life. Anbd as Jesus said, He gives us eternal life and we shall never perish.

Amen. Nothing against free will here

Everything against free will. He chose us, we did not choose Him, as it is written.

Yes he knew..

knew what?

Those who would believe

or as Jesus said, whoever sees and believes

And you have followed those who have made a massive free will doctrine out of this. It doesn't say how they come to believe, it only says If A happens(believe) then B happens (receive) Nothing about how A happens Why you cannot see that is a mystery.

You have not proven me wrong..

I don't have to. god's Word already did!

Show me five clear verses about Men choose God instead of God choosing us,

 

[MonoBiblical]

The problem with predestination is that it is related to God's omniscience. God knows when someone will get "salvation" or "lose salvation".

 

[nedsk]

now go look up foreknowledge in teh Koine Greek and learn it means knowledge through preplanning.

It is the word "pro-ginosko" where we get our word prognosis from. A doctor knows the outcome because He knows what he will do and the results of His actions, not the patients.

but in the argument fo free will/predestination, it is necessary to know how one believes.

Yes, but we are saved and already crossed from death to life. Anbd as Jesus said, He gives us eternal life and we shall never perish.

Everything against free will. He chose us, we did not choose Him, as it is written.

And you have followed those who have made a massive free will doctrine out of this. It doesn't say how they come to believe, it only says If A happens(believe) then B happens (receive) Nothing about how A happens Why you cannot see that is a mystery.

I don't have to. god's Word already did!

Show me five clear verses about Men choose God instead of God choosing us,

Are you saved?

 

[MonoBiblical]

Are you saved?

No, are you safe?

 

[nedsk]

No, are you safe?

I didn't think you were. Believe me Im very safe but thank you for worrying about me.

 

[pandaflower]

The problem with predestination is that it is related to God's omniscience. God knows when someone will get "salvation" or "lose salvation".

Omniscience, sovereignty,dominion,predestination, are all synonymous with God's power,presence,and authority within and over his creation.

 

[MonoBiblical]

I didn't think you were. Believe me Im very safe but thank you for worrying about me.

I don't believe people are saved usually, and the word doesn't always include the afterlife.