I think you missed the point I was trying to make in the first part of my reply. I was actually trying to say that man cannot deny what God has predestined by His sovereign will.
Which I got... and thought I enunciated that. I agreed with what you said, but that was beside the point.
Man can do nothing to stop anything that God has predestined to take place.
Right; previously agreed...
We know that God never predestined any infant or baby to be baptised...
Well, agreed, but that's really neither here nor there. Although... God did ordain every day of our lives before there was yet any one of them, as David says of himself in Psalm 139... But let's bypass this, as it's not relevant to what we're talking about here, or at least shouldn't be...
...because baptism is only for those who are mature enough to understand what it is and they must apply for it...
Right... Disagree, and disagree. <smile> Neither is the case. The water baptism we administer is the
outward sign of God's covenant to be the God of us and our children ~ like circumcision was in Old Testament times from the time of Abraham forward, which was performed on eight-day-old infants ~ so a sacrament in that way. And I'll say again that it is the outward sign of God's covenant, not the covenant itself, of course, and should not be... you know the better word to use here rather than 'denied' is 'withheld'... so should not be withheld from anyone in the covenant community for any reason.
, then the Minister must be convinced that the applicant meets all the requirements set out by God Himself.
Ah, so the minister thinks he is divinely inspired in the same manner as, say, Isaiah, and Amos, and Paul and Peter were in writing the parts of the Bible they wrote? <
smile> Sorry, that's rhetorical; no answer needed... <
smile>
The following are the primary requirement for baptism; According to the Bible (Gods Word), not mine.
That's very debatable... <
smile>
The applicant must make a credible, public profession of personal faith in Jesus Christ, demonstrating a genuine change of heart (repentance and regeneration) and a union with Christ, making the candidate a "believer's baptism" subject, not an infant.
Disagree. <
smile> Easy to say, but not so easy to back up with Scripture, which, of course, is God's Word. You might point to what Paul says in Romans 6:4 and Colossians 2:12 to back this up, but... Well, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so you can speak to this if you want.
It's an ordinance (not a sacrament) symbolizing the believer's death to sin and resurrection in new life...
Ah, no, it
is a sacrament ~ it is a visible reminder of God's promise to be the God of those whom He calls. And in the case of infants, the parents are calling in faith on God's promise to do just that and at the time of His choosing that He will work in that child's heart ~ maybe even before the child has the ability to make a credible profession of faith. It is an outward sign, not only to the parents but even for all who witness it, of God's promise to save. And the prayer for the infant is that he or she would never know a day when he or she doesn't know Jesus as his or her Savior and Brother and Friend.
making it a prerequisite for church membership and the Lord's Supper, with immersion being the preferred mode to depict Christ's death and resurrection.
Key Requirements for Baptism:
- Regeneration & Faith: The person must have experienced regeneration by the Holy Spirit, leading to a genuine, conscious faith in Christ as Savior and Lord.
- Repentance: A turning away from sin and toward God is essential, demonstrated by a confession and a transformed life.
- Public Profession: A verifiable, public declaration of this faith and repentance is required, often in a church setting.
- Union with Christ: Baptism signifies the believer's spiritual identification with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection (Romans 6:3-
- Believers Baptism: Only those who have consciously professed faith are to be baptized (credobaptism), rejecting infant baptism (paedobaptism).
Yeah, again, disagree. Points 1, 3, and 5 in particular. Again, it's all due to a misunderstanding, really, of what baptism is.
Ah, yes, on point number 4 there, maybe you didn't finish the citation... verses 3 through something in Romans 6, which would include verse 4... You might notice that, while Paul does say,
"we were buried with Jesus by baptism into death," but he says nothing there (or anywhere) about having been believers when they were, and of course says nothing about believing being a prerequisite to being buried with Jesus by baptism into death.
And if you look at Colossians 2:11-12 ~ where, in verse 12, he says the same thing, that we were
"buried with Him in baptism" ~ you should be able to see there that baptism, in the times of the early church, has replaced the old sign and seal of the covenant, circumcision, which was administered by God's ordinance ~ which is an authoritative order; a decree ~ given to Abraham in Genesis 17:9-10, where God says, "As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your offspring after you throughout their generations. This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised... He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised."
So we can... and should... have our children even as early as possible buried with Jesus in baptism. And in doing so, we trust that God, in His time, at His appointment, by His Holy Spirit, baptize with the Holy Spirit and therein give that person, at whatever age that happens, because it might be decades later, new life in the Spirit, and he or she would then walk in that newness of life.
What it Signifies
- An Ordinance, Not a Sacrament: It's a command from Christ (Matthew 28:19) and a picture of grace, not a means of conferring grace itself.
It's a sacrament, just as was the former sacrament, circumcision, which was instituted as the sign and seal of God's covenant by ordinance, God's authoritative order, along with the sacrament of communion, or the Lord's supper.
- Covenantal: It's seen as the New Covenant sign for believers, contrasting with Old Covenant circumcision.
Agreed. Great! Except... well, it's a sign for all. But yes, baptism has replaced circumcision, but it's
institution and proper administration is unchanged. Now, how old were children who were circumcised? You will see in Genesis 17:12... <smile> If you compare what God says to Abraham in Genesis 17 to what Peter says in Acts 2, you will see that what they say about the sign/seal of the covenant is very, very similar.
- Immersion: The Greek word baptizo (dip/immerse) and the symbolism of dying/rising with Christ make immersion the appropriate method.
That's also debatable. Jesus was baptized in an area of the Jordan river by John where the water would have only come up to His ankles... <
smile> And there is much in the Bible about sprinkling... <
smile> Baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water upon the person. But the mode of baptism is not of great importance; I was baptized myself by full immersion, and there's nothing really wrong with that. But... you might agree that Ezekiel 36:25-27 is a picture of how we are saved by God, even of our new birth by the Spirit, and if so, I would agree, but notice verse 25 there, where God says of His baptism of us in our regeneration,
"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you." So again I say, baptism is rightly administered by pouring or sprinkling water.
- Prerequisite: It's a necessary step for formal church membership and participation in the Lord's Supper.
This I agree with; yes, we welcome someone as a communing member when the person makes a credible profession of faith. It's as much an admonition to the church as to the person, because unless the person actually comes to Christ first, the sacrament of communion will do that person no good, even bringing condemnation upon that person, and if we allow it then we ourselves bear a responsibility here.
Grace and peace to you.
