Is it possible to lose salvation?

[Berean]

"do any of the other Bible writers count?"
ABSOLUTELY, to their respective audiences/age
Was Job saved by the teachings of the 12 ?
Why not, if all the writers count ? :)

You make no sense.

 

[rvmb]

You make no sense.

Maybe this makes sense ?
Was Job saved by the teachings of John, Matt, Peter etc ?

 

[rvmb]

The devil tries to claim parts of God's Word are not inspired.




All things are possible with God.




Job was in Abraham's bosom and Jesus taught the Gospel to the OT saints when He went in to hell and they all got born again.




Actually it's the teachings of Jesus Christ that saves and Paul even spoke about that...

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

We are to withdraw ourselves from those that do not accept the teachings of Jesus Christ who don't know it was Jesus Who led the NT writes on what to write thru the leading and revelation of the Holy Spirit.

Glad we got this all cleared up!

""Was Job saved by the teachings of the 12 ?
Why not""
Apparently you know, so help the ignorant ones like myself to learn
How did the teachings of the 12 save Job ?

 

[Christian Soldier]

Don't you feel that we should include all the scriptures we can find that are relevant, to determine our understanding?

The first five scriptures explain one thing, and the rest of the scriptures explain another. Wouldn't all the scriptures be considered the truth?

Could it be that the first five scriptures are explaining the difficulty of understanding things, and the remaining scriptures are explaining that if we knock the door will be opened, if we are diligent, and exert ourselves, we will find the truth?

Never mind human feelings and emotions, they always lead to confusion and delusion. The first five scriptures didn't reveal anything about "the difficulty of understanding things". More like Gods Word is impossible to understand, by those to whom understanding was not given to by God.

Gods Word is foolishness to those who God didn't elect onto salvation, they remain spiritually dead forever and God Word will never ever make any sense to them. So it's impossible for them to understand it.

You claim that the remaining scriptures explain that " if we knock the door will be opened, if we are diligent, and exert ourselves, we will find the truth?".
This then sounds like you are preaching the "saved by works" version of the gospel, where the "We" refers to people like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mau, Judas Iscariot and other Devils.

But I have never found a single verse in the bible to support your theory that the Lord Jesus promised to save devils, if they exert themselves to do good works, as you are suggesting here.

So, I'd like to remind you again that your "saved by works" version of the gospel is a perversion of the true gospel.

 

[rvmb]

Never mind human feelings and emotions, they always lead to confusion and delusion. The first five scriptures didn't reveal anything about "the difficulty of understanding things". More like Gods Word is impossible to understand, by those to whom understanding was not given to by God.

Gods Word is foolishness to those who God didn't elect onto salvation, they remain spiritually dead forever and God Word will never ever make any sense to them. So it's impossible for them to understand it.

You claim that the remaining scriptures explain that " if we knock the door will be opened, if we are diligent, and exert ourselves, we will find the truth?".
This then sounds like you are preaching the "saved by works" version of the gospel, where the "We" refers to people like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mau, Judas Iscariot and other Devils.

But I have never found a single verse in the bible to support your theory that the Lord Jesus promised to save devils, if they exert themselves to do good works, as you are suggesting here.

So, I'd like to remind you again that your "saved by works" version of the gospel is a perversion of the true gospel.

""So, I'd like to remind you again that your "saved by works" version of the gospel is a perversion of the true gospel. ""
Hit me hard CS, we finally agree on something

 

[Christian Soldier]

Where's my house?
Where are my cars?

Looks like YOU are the liar.

The house and the cars and one motorcycle are all yours, if you find that elusive bible verse which says that the Lord Jesus came to save every single person in the world.

I can't believe anyone would even consider this abominable perversion, to be even possible. I'm sure you are aware of the fact that the Lord Jesus will cast the vast majority of mankind into hell. You know they will beg for mercy but the Lord Jesus will show them no mercy and cast them into hell, while they kick and scream.

I really don't get why you struggle to accept the truth of the matter. If you are a Christian, then you believe that God is almighty, and if Her is almighty, then it means that He can't fail to achieve His goals.
If God set out to save every single person, then He would save every single person, otherwise He is not all mighty and all powerful.

It's very simple, and the only reason I can see why anyone would reject the simple truth of the matter is they must have been blinded by God Himself, so they can't understand and thus they can't be saved because God has not chosen to save them before He created the world.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Still on the obfuscation road. None of the above even applies to me. They are simply your means to omit any rational reply.

You have given none. Your verses don't show that salvation cannot be lost. You have not even shown that a person even has salvation in this life, I'm referencing the subjective aspect of one's salvation. Furthermore, they are simply your personal interpretation of scripture. Everyone of those 49,00 figure you used earlier make the same claim. All you have is one person's opinion against another. If there are a thousand denominations there are a thousand truths being established no different than yours.
This is why you can so glibly state that any other opinion is false, which it is, based on the theory that everyone's version is the truth, for himself.
Are you even able to discuss rationally about your views? Or just post your opinion and deny all other comments, carte blanche

I have tried to explain what the problem with private interpretation of the bible is. There are 49,000 Christian denominations, doing exactly what you're doing. They're all pushing their "private interpretation" as the only correct interpretation in town, while they rubbish all of the opposing interpretations.

You haven't revealed which one of the 49,000 denominations you are sold out to, but regardless of which one it is, I can confirm that they have brainwashed you. Because your theology doesn't line up with the bible, it's inconsistent with scripture and it's also incoherent. It's a patchwork of compartmentalized views based on your feelings and emotions, with no scriptural basis.

It's one thing to claim that I have misinterpreted the scriptures I presented, but it's another to show where my errors are and to provide biblical support for your views, and you have not doe either of these, so all you have done is made false allegations without any evidence to support your charges.

 

[Christian Soldier]

""So, I'd like to remind you again that your "saved by works" version of the gospel is a perversion of the true gospel. ""
Hit me hard CS, we finally agree on something

 

[rvmb]

The house and the cars and one motorcycle are all yours, if you find that elusive bible verse which says that the Lord Jesus came to save every single person in the world.

I can't believe anyone would even consider this abominable perversion, to be even possible. I'm sure you are aware of the fact that the Lord Jesus will cast the vast majority of mankind into hell. You know they will beg for mercy but the Lord Jesus will show them no mercy and cast them into hell, while they kick and scream.

I really don't get why you struggle to accept the truth of the matter. If you are a Christian, then you believe that God is almighty, and if Her is almighty, then it means that He can't fail to achieve His goals.
If God set out to save every single person, then He would save every single person, otherwise He is not all mighty and all powerful.

It's very simple, and the only reason I can see why anyone would reject the simple truth of the matter is they must have been blinded by God Himself, so they can't understand and thus they can't be saved because God has not chosen to save them before He created the world.

"""Lord Jesus came to save every single person in the world.""
so that every person has the chance to be saved :)

 

[walter]

Never mind human feelings and emotions, they always lead to confusion and delusion. The first five scriptures didn't reveal anything about "the difficulty of understanding things". More like Gods Word is impossible to understand, by those to whom understanding was not given to by God.

Gods Word is foolishness to those who God didn't elect onto salvation, they remain spiritually dead forever and God Word will never ever make any sense to them. So it's impossible for them to understand it.

You claim that the remaining scriptures explain that " if we knock the door will be opened, if we are diligent, and exert ourselves, we will find the truth?".
This then sounds like you are preaching the "saved by works" version of the gospel, where the "We" refers to people like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mau, Judas Iscariot and other Devils.

But I have never found a single verse in the bible to support your theory that the Lord Jesus promised to save devils, if they exert themselves to do good works, as you are suggesting here.

So, I'd like to remind you again that your "saved by works" version of the gospel is a perversion of the true gospel.

I wish we could communicate in some kind of useful way.

What if we consider the words in each scripture, one scripture at a time?

And I ask you a question about the one scripture, and you tell me what it means, does that sound okay?

 

[GodsGrace]

""Was Job saved by the teachings of the 12 ?
Why not""
Apparently you know, so help the ignorant ones like myself to learn
How did the teachings of the 12 save Job ?

Hey rvmb
I'm waiting for your answer!

 

[GodsGrace]

The house and the cars and one motorcycle are all yours, if you find that elusive bible verse which says that the Lord Jesus came to save every single person in the world.

I can't believe anyone would even consider this abominable perversion, to be even possible. I'm sure you are aware of the fact that the Lord Jesus will cast the vast majority of mankind into hell. You know they will beg for mercy but the Lord Jesus will show them no mercy and cast them into hell, while they kick and scream.

I really don't get why you struggle to accept the truth of the matter. If you are a Christian, then you believe that God is almighty, and if Her is almighty, then it means that He can't fail to achieve His goals.
If God set out to save every single person, then He would save every single person, otherwise He is not all mighty and all powerful.

It's very simple, and the only reason I can see why anyone would reject the simple truth of the matter is they must have been blinded by God Himself, so they can't understand and thus they can't be saved because God has not chosen to save them before He created the world.

Can't speak to persons that are not serious about what the bible teaches.
Sorry.

I'll just say this:
Your theology is not biblical.
Everything you state can be debunked with many verses.

But you won't be serious about it.
So....

 

[LoveYeshua]

Never mind human feelings and emotions, they always lead to confusion and delusion.

You mean feelings and emotions Like Love?

The first five scriptures didn't reveal anything about "the difficulty of understanding things". More like Gods Word is impossible to understand, by those to whom understanding was not given to by God.

do you think you have understanding?

Gods Word is foolishness to those who God didn't elect onto salvation, they remain spiritually dead forever and God Word will never ever make any sense to them. So it's impossible for them to understand it.

You think you are an elect of God, really?

You claim that the remaining scriptures explain that " if we knock the door will be opened, if we are diligent, and exert ourselves, we will find the truth?".

What truth did you find?

This then sounds like you are preaching the "saved by works" version of the gospel, where the "We" refers to people like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Chairman Mau, Judas Iscariot and other Devils.

you go too far here, no one is preaching salvation by works here

But I have never found a single verse in the bible to support your theory that the Lord Jesus promised to save devils, if they exert themselves to do good works, as you are suggesting here.

I agree devils and those who reject Jesus are toast.

So, I'd like to remind you again that your "saved by works" version of the gospel is a perversion of the true gospel.

No one is saying saved by works, you use it as an excuse.

How you define works, and how did Christ define works do you know the difference? can you tell me?

 

[Rightglory]

I have tried to explain what the problem with private interpretation of the bible is. There are 49,000 Christian denominations, doing exactly what you're doing. They're all pushing their "private interpretation" as the only correct interpretation in town, while they rubbish all of the opposing interpretations.

This is exactly what you are doing. You are very good at it.

You haven't revealed which one of the 49,000 denominations you are sold out to, but regardless of which one it is, I can confirm that they have brainwashed you. Because your theology doesn't line up with the bible, it's inconsistent with scripture and it's also incoherent. It's a patchwork of compartmentalized views based on your feelings and emotions, with no scriptural basis.

Again describing yourself to a tee. I don't belong to any denomination. I gave you the historical meaning of those verses. Meanings that have existed for 2000 years.

It's one thing to claim that I have misinterpreted the scriptures I presented, but it's another to show where my errors are and to provide biblical support for your views, and you have not doe either of these, so all you have done is made false allegations without any evidence to support your charges.

I showed you the errors of your interpretation in my first post to you. You dismissed them without ever attempting to show why they are false. If you cannot show they are false your interpretation would be false.
What you are good at is changing the language so it fits your theory, thus denies what someone actually stated, as you did in the previous post #4874. The term "saved by good works" never appears in the other posts I have read of the other posters.

Because you don't believe in the effective Incarnation of Christ, you have stated several times that many humans have not been saved by not being elected. Then you say that they will go to hell. I explained to you earlier that there are two aspects to our salvation. Objective and subjective. Objectively, hell would not and could not exist unless Christ became man and raised our human natures to life. To say the least, your understanding of scripture and theology is very limited.

You don't really discourse with other posters. You just shut them off with some innocuous blather that is totally irrelevant to what someone posts.

 

[JohnDB]

Jesus had a lot to say about and this taught that the path to eternal life is narrow and that few find it. In Matthew 7:13-14, He said;

"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."​

This shows that salvation is not guaranteed for everyone, and only those who stay faithful and follow His teachings will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


Jesus also warned that some would hear the word and believe for a while, but eventually fall away. In the Parable of the Sower, He explained;

"But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles." (Matthew 13:20-21).​

This illustrates that some will start their walk with God but will not persevere when faced with trials or temptations.

In John 15:6, Jesus made it even clearer, saying;

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned."​

Here, Jesus compares Himself to a vine and believers as branches. A branch must remain connected to the vine to stay alive and bear fruit. If a person disconnects from Christ through disobedience or unbelief, they wither spiritually and face eternal judgment.


The original apostles also confirmed this truth. Peter warned in 2 Peter 2:20-21;

"For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them."​

This shows that a person who was once saved and returns to sin is in a worse condition than before they knew the truth.​

James also affirmed this truth when he said;

"Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."​

(James 5:19-20).​

This verse reveals that a believer can wander away from the truth and face spiritual death unless they repent and return to God.

The Bible does provide examples of those who lost their salvation. Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve apostles chosen by Jesus, yet he betrayed the Lord for thirty pieces of silver. Jesus Himself said about Judas;

"It would have been good for that man if he had not been born." (Matthew 26:24).​

This shows that Judas was once in the faith but fell away and was lost.

Another example is Balaam, a prophet who once heard from God but later led Israel into sin for personal gain. Peter referred to him, saying,

"They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor." (2 Peter 2:15). King Saul is yet another example; he was chosen and anointed by God but later disobeyed and rebelled, and the Spirit of God departed from him (1 Samuel 16:14)​

Jesus' words make it clear that salvation is not a one-time event but requires endurance and faithfulness until the end. As He said in Matthew 24:13, "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." Therefore, those who abide in Christ, obey His commandments, and remain faithful will receive eternal life. However, those who turn away from Him and return to sin risk losing their salvation and facing eternal separation from God: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."Rev 14:12

Blessings.

Sooooo
After all of this....

Let's state things more plainly.

You can't lose or have someone take/steal salvation by Jesus away from you.

You have to willingly surrender it up.
You give your soul to Satan/corruption/evil and you don't have salvation anymore.

Why would someone do that?

Kinda like selling your inheritance for a bowl of beans.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Sooooo
After all of this....

Let's state things more plainly.

You can't lose or have someone take/steal salvation by Jesus away from you.

You have to willingly surrender it up.
You give your soul to Satan/corruption/evil and you don't have salvation anymore.

Why would someone do that?

Kinda like selling your inheritance for a bowl of beans.

ask Judas!

Judas lived with Jesus 3 1/2 years knew him well, preached the gospel, was given power over demons, could heal the sick...

But, his heart was rotten to the core he was a thief, preferred darkness to the light. Judas SOLD Jesus the son of God, to the pharisees for 30 pieces of silver, that was the price of a slave! did he love Jesus? No. did he obey jesus? No! How could he do this?

Do you think he lost salvation?

 

[walter]

Sooooo
After all of this....

Let's state things more plainly.

You can't lose or have someone take/steal salvation by Jesus away from you.

You have to willingly surrender it up.
You give your soul to Satan/corruption/evil and you don't have salvation anymore.

Why would someone do that?

Kinda like selling your inheritance for a bowl of beans.

Hebrew 5:9
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And in this way he was perfected and became the cause of eternal life to all those who obey him.

Ephesians 2:8-10
Contemporary English Version
You were saved by faith in God, who treats us much better than we deserve. This is God's gift to you, and not anything you have done on your own. 9 It isn't something you have earned, so there is nothing you can brag about. 10 God planned for us to do good things and to live as he has always wanted us to live. This is why he sent Christ to make us what we are.

 

[Christian Soldier]

"""Lord Jesus came to save every single person in the world.""
so that every person has the chance to be saved :)

That would be true if the Lord Jesus lied, when He said this in >>> John 6:37 ("All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out")

The "all that the Father gives" refers to those chosen (elect) by God for salvation before time began. The Father "gives" people to the Son within the eternal plan of redemption, where the Son agrees to save them.

While the general call to all people can be resisted, the Father's specific work on the elect's heart through the Holy Spirit (regeneration) makes them come to Christ, willingly.

The second part, "whoever comes to me I will never cast out," guarantees that those given by the Father will be eternally kept and saved, as He loses none of them (John 6:39).

Jesus speaks this after many followed Him for bread, not understanding Him as the true Bread of Life, highlighting that not all who physically followed Him were truly "given" by the Father.

John 6:37 confirms that God's electing love ensures the salvation of those He gives to Jesus, who then promises to secure them eternally.

These are just a couple of verses that confirm that "universalism", is a heresy. There are hundreds more

 

[Christian Soldier]

I wish we could communicate in some kind of useful way.

What if we consider the words in each scripture, one scripture at a time?

And I ask you a question about the one scripture, and you tell me what it means, does that sound okay?

No, I won't be hoodwinked into joining you in plucking verses out of their intended context and interpreting them in isolation.

I appreciate your theory can only float when you rip words out of a verse and apply your theory, which is based on your private opinions and emotions. But doing that is tantamount to blasphemy, because God said in >>>

Proverbs 30:6 "Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar".
A warning against adding your private opinion to what God has said. Revelation 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;

 

[Christian Soldier]

Can't speak to persons that are not serious about what the bible teaches.
Sorry.

I'll just say this:
Your theology is not biblical.
Everything you state can be debunked with many verses.

But you won't be serious about it.
So....

You are mistaken, about my not being serious about what the bible teaches. To the contrary, Gods Word is the highest authority in all matters in my life.
I have placed all of my trust in Gods Word, to guide me and instruct me on how to live. If someone points out an error in my theology, I take it seriously.

My theology may not be biblical, according to your private opinion. But let me remind you that private opinions are worth nothing, as everybody has their own conflicting opinions about everything. The only thing that matters is the truth, and as you know the Lord Jesus is the truth.

I'd be glad to receive correction, if it is biblically based. But you have never ever found a single fault in my theology, based on any scripture. I would love to be corrected, so please do so if you can show me anything, based on scripture

Have a blessed Christmas