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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by Groundzero, Aug 7, 2011.

Is Jesus God?

  1. Yes

    90.5%
  2. No

    9.5%
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  1. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    I already addressed a few of the verses in this video. I find it unfruitful to load a person down with a bunch of proof texts. Let's try to understand one or two and then move on.

    Concerning John 10:30, we must ask what Yeshua meant. Did he mean the Father and the Son are the same person/being? If so, that contradicts the trinity doctrine which states the Father is NOT the Son and vice versa. I believe Yeshua gives us the true meaning in John 17:11 & John 17:22;

    And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

    And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    Yeshua says he and the Father are one. But he also prays that his followers will be one in the same sense that he and his Father are one. That is a oneness of mind, purpose, and will, not a oneness of person or deity.
     
  2. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    gadar perets:

    And John 14:9-11 compliments John 10:30 and John 17:11 and 22, and there are more verses
    (Joh 14:9) Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
    (Joh 14:10) Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.
    (Joh 14:11) Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

    Why cannot folks see that Jesus is not saying he is God, his Father. Is there some subliminal message hidden beneath these verses or do I to get a secret decoder ringer to see these verses with a reserved meaning...cannot understand it. If folks believe these verses mean Jesus = God then they CANNOT truly understand what happened to Christ at his baptism. It is pivot in understanding who Jesus Christ is, and in relationship with his Father.

    APAK
     
  3. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    I suspect many do see it, but they are too afraid to embrace the truth and study the issues further without trinitarian blinders on. They have been indoctrinated to believe that if you reject the deity of Christ or the Trinity doctrine, then you are not a Christian and will be lost forever. The majority are in bondage to fear. Only a small minority will truly search the Scriptures without bias and accept what it says.

    A simple example is Psalm 2:7 in which we are taught that YHWH is Yeshua's Father. Yet, many trinitarian Christians continue to believe that Yeshua is really YHWH. In others words, they choose to believe Yeshua is his own Father. The trinity states the Father is NOT the Son. Therefore, they should conclude by Psalm 2:7 that YHWH (the Father) is NOT Yeshua (the Son).
     
  4. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Hi guys. Nice to see that you are both here together. Just finished work. I was prompted by the Lord last night, not to continue on with this conversation because it only causes unnecessary arguments strife and conflict. Something that the Lord will not have me involved in. If you believe Jesus is not a God or a lesser God than Father God or if you believe that Jesus is nothing more than a prophet or you believe in the "Oneness" doctrine, or Jesus was an angel etc; so be it. He will reveal his truth into your hearts according to his perfect timing. Blessings and Peace! [​IMG]
     
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  5. gadar perets

    gadar perets Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear that. I did not notice any arguing, strife or conflict; just reasoning over Scripture. Perhaps it wasn't the Lord that prompted you, but fear and a lack of a Scriptural response. As for having the truth revealed to us in his perfect timing, that has already been done. I'll keep you in prayer that the seeds of truth that have been planted in your heart thus far by APAK and me will bear fruit some day. Shalom.
     
  6. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    See what I mean? See ya!!! :D
     
  7. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    Angelina:

    I do agree with what gadar prets has said. We most probably come from different paths in life and yet this we have in common. I do not think that it is a coincidence. I believe we are in the minority though of those that consider themselves true believers. Scripture has to be a place to reason and edify one another without putting up barriers by presenting preprogrammed scripture without seriously discussing it for full meaning or commentary.

    You know I grew up with RC and then left it for many good reasons. I became the guest of many denominations over time. I left them all. One common area that I did not believe in was their creeds and belief models, Trinity, Oneness, Hyper grace etc. Many had scripture all skewed because of these models.

    For example, if a tri-personality God model is believed, scripture will always be used with the lens of this model.

    The only model that exists for me in scripture is God our Father, Creator, of Love and any other roles he plays. Then there is our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ, the son of God and any other title such as teacher he happens to use. There are two...

    One clear problem in the Triune model of God beside that Jesus is equal to God, is that in it there is a separate 'Holy' spirit devoid or acting independent of God's spirit. There is only ONE spirit of God and it is his own. There is no other mysterious spirit roaming out there.

    Bless you,

    APAK
     
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