Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

[Episkopos]

As humans, we seem to find a proper balance to be something that escapes us, so often, preferring a more radical and simplistic view to one that requires nuance and a deeper understanding of the matter. Is salvation inclusive or exclusive? What if it's both!

 

[Episkopos]

Here is an AI take on my latest podcast episode listed below with timestamps...

The video explores the question of whether Jesus is the savior of the whole world, arguing against both extreme fundamentalist and universalist views by proposing that God's ways incorporate both exclusive and inclusive aspects of salvation (1:48).

The speaker explains that there are two main levels or standards of salvation:
Holiness: This is a higher, more exclusive call for those who are born again and are challenged to love God with all their heart, mind, and soul (2:42). It is a gift of grace that places a higher expectation on individuals (7:52, 24:09). Those in this category are judged by their actions and obedience (8:55, 9:50).
Righteousness: This is a foundational salvation based on loving one's neighbor as oneself (3:39, 4:22). God shows mercy to the humble and meek, and this salvation extends beyond the scope of the church (4:06, 5:40).

He emphasizes that while holiness is a gift of grace, those on the holy walk must also learn and practice righteousness (7:32-7:44, 7:56-8:11). Both extremes (fundamentalism and universalism) fail to account for the necessity of personal righteousness and judgment by works, not just beliefs or experiences (9:32-10:06). God's judgment operates on a sliding scale, where more is required from those to whom much is given (11:09-11:20).

The video uses Ezra 9:8 as a "hub verse" (13:36) to explain why some are given a new spiritual birth. This new birth is not just for salvation, but for a purpose: to escape judgment, to be judged separately as God's people, and to be kickstarted into a life of righteousness and holiness (17:34, 18:07). This is a call to rebuild the house of God and stand against desolation (27:29).

The speaker warns against the dangers of pride, self-love, and judging others, stating that those who fail in the "holy walk" by not learning righteousness and loving their neighbor risk losing their "nail" (their place in God's sure house) and suffering loss, even being cast into outer darkness (21:14, 21:50, 35:00). He criticizes both fundamentalists for denying the righteousness of the righteous (41:31) and universalists for not accounting for the need for righteousness based on works (9:32) as well as a seeming disregard for holiness.

Ultimately, the video emphasizes that God is righteous and judges based on what people do with what they have been given (38:13, 39:16). It encourages humility, repentance, and a diligent effort to work out one's salvation with fear and trembling (38:40, 40:03).

 

[Jack]

Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?​

HIGHLY conditional upon believing and serving Him!

 

[Episkopos]

Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?​

HIGHLY conditional upon believing and serving Him!

Do you think one can obey the Lord without knowing they are doing so? As in...When did we see you and serve you? Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these My brethren... (Matt 25 sheep and goats judgment)

 

[Jack]

Do you think one can obey the Lord without knowing they are doing so? As in...When did we see you and serve you? Inasmuch as you did it to the least of these My brethren... (Matt 25 sheep and goats judgment)

I don't doubt that many very kind people reject Jesus and are heading for Hell. There are many very kind gays heading for Hell.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't doubt that many very kind people reject Jesus and are heading for Hell. There are many very kind gays heading for Hell.

I don't think you are looking at this in a balanced way. Who says that people who are not Christians are rejecting Jesus?

I listened recently to Rob Reiner and his take on Christian nationalism. His take is that the political movement in the name of Jesus goes against the teachings of Jesus. I think he is showing more wisdom than many Christians....among those who are dogmatically motivated, but have no love for others...thereby disobeying the commandment and ignoring the clear teachings of Jesus.

 

[Jack]

I don't think you are looking at this in a balanced way. Who says that people who are not Christians are rejecting Jesus?

I think your question is outrageous!

I listened recently to Rob Reiner and his take on Christian nationalism. His take is that the political movement in the name of Jesus goes against the teachings of Jesus. I think he is showing more wisdom than many Christians....among those who are dogmatically motivated, but have no love for others...thereby disobeying the commandment and ignoring the clear teachings of Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

I think your question is outrageous!

Since when is not knowing someone mean you are rejecting them? Do you know who plays for the Montreal Canadiens? If not, is it because you reject them?

You need to read the bible narrative without the indoctrination and see that God judges by OUR BEHAVIOUR not our religious beliefs.

The bible is a scandal to the religiously puffed up ones.

Is that outrageous?

 

[Jack]

Since when is not knowing someone mean you are rejecting them? Do you know who plays for the Montreal Canadiens? If not, is it because you reject them?

You need to read the bible narrative without the indoctrination and see that God judges by OUR BEHAVIOUR not our religious beliefs.

The bible is a scandal to the religiously puffed up ones.

Is that outrageous?

Romans 1:18-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

 

[Episkopos]

Romans 1:18-20
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

This is about behaviour...ungodly and unrighteous behaviour. It is about attributes ...not beliefs or opinions of men. Many believers will be rejected so they are not in the exclusive salvation of the saints.

In posting scriptures that repeat what I say...are you sure you understand your own position? What is your position? That one must be Christian to be saved? That is not in the bible. In fact many believers will be rejected and are not part of the elect.

Check out the bible for more details...

 

[Jack]

This is about behaviour...ungodly and unrighteous behaviour. It is about attributes ...not beliefs or opinions of men. Many believers will be rejected so they are not in the exclusive salvation of the saints.

In posting scriptures that repeat what I say...are you sure you understand your own position? What is your position? That one must be Christian to be saved? That is not in the bible. In fact many believers will be rejected and are not part of the elect.

Check out the bible for more details...

Those who don't believe in Jesus are DAMNED! Jesus said so.

 

[Episkopos]

Those who don't believe in Jesus are DAMNED! Jesus said so.

You are not seeing the context of who Jesus is addressing. Among God's people all who don't believe in Jesus are condemned...and that was directed at the Jews...and to Nicodemus specifically. Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel.

Likewise there is a LOT of unbelief among Christians...which can condemn them. Very few believed that the Israelites could conquer the Promised Land. Just like most modern believers don't believe they can walk in victory over sin...even by the resurrection power of Christ!!! Such unbelief. Will God reward this?

 

[Jack]

You are not seeing the context of who Jesus is addressing.

You're playing JW word games!

Among God's people all who don't believe in Jesus are condemned

Do you even read your own posts??? Those who don't believe in Jesus are not God's people!

...and that was directed at the Jews...and to Nicodemus specifically. Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel.

Likewise there is a LOT of unbelief among Christians...which can condemn them. Very few believed that the Israelites could conquer the Promised Land. Just like most modern believers don't believe they can walk in victory over sin...even by the resurrection power of Christ!!! Such unbelief. Will God reward this?

Yes God will reward this. MILLIONS sit in churches listen to Satan's ministers, swallowing Satan's poison. And never STUDY the Bible at home to obtain Christian salvation!

 

[Episkopos]

You're playing JW word games!

Do you even read your own posts??? Those who don't believe in Jesus are not God's people!

Yes God will reward this. MILLIONS sit in churches listen to Satan's ministers, swallowing Satan's poison. And never STUDY the Bible at home to obtain Christian salvation!

When you are ready to listen to the video, or look at the summary in post #2...and comment intelligently and sincerely on that...using the bible... let me know. :)

 

[Jack]

When you are ready to listen to the video, or look at the summary in post #2...and comment intelligently and sincerely on that...using the bible... let me know. :)

I'm too busy reading the Bible to watch your biased videos.

 

[JustMe]

@Episkopos .....an elitist, false or true, who conceals their clear intentions until the 'end' like playing in a game of strategy...hmmm.. I wonder.

Hello...

You have essentially presented two arguments for two distinct groups of people, or three if you include your exclusive group of believers who live by true grace and victory in Christ as their way of life.

One group consists of individuals who lack knowledge of the gospel and Christ but are obedient and have faith in following a Christlike spiritual path by knowing only God, Christ’s Father (not the Trinity or Binitarian concept I adhere to). The other group knows the gospel, Christ, and his God but does not live in true grace or in the Spirit. This latter group lacks the fruits of the Spirit and does not claim victory in Christ; they may not be genuinely converted or saved, yet they are still considered Christians.

Indeed, one can be a follower of Christ without knowing the gospel or Christ himself, though they must know, have faith in, and obey the one God, our LORD or YHWH. I do not regard the Son of God as God.

If someone has faith in the one God (LORD) as Abraham did—before God revealed the gospel through His Son, the future Messiah—then that person can also attain true righteousness today. Whether this faith and obedience are genuine depends on God.

Simply being a good and civic person whose obedience aligns with Christ’s teachings, without knowledge and faith in His God, is insufficient and will never be considered “the least of my brethren.”

Therefore, the so-called Christian who follows false grace or “false hope theology” is in a worse position than the one with the righteousness of Abraham or David—one will live, the other will die.

From your discussion, two groups will enter the Kingdom, while the misguided group will not.

Interesting subject that latches into other important areas of scripture. Sounds like you love Paul's writings. Paul lived a life of Christ under dire and perilous conditions, which significantly shaped his writings and perspective, that to some are considered extreme and over-the-top.

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos .....an elitist, false or true, who conceals their clear intentions until the 'end' like playing in a game of strategy...hmmm.. I wonder.

Hello...

You have essentially presented two arguments for two distinct groups of people, or three if you include your exclusive group of believers who live by true grace and victory in Christ as their way of life.

One group consists of individuals who lack knowledge of the gospel and Christ but are obedient and have faith in following a Christlike spiritual path by knowing only God, Christ’s Father (not the Trinity or Binitarian concept I adhere to). The other group knows the gospel, Christ, and his God but does not live in true grace or in the Spirit. This latter group lacks the fruits of the Spirit and does not claim victory in Christ; they may not be genuinely converted or saved, yet they are still considered Christians.

Indeed, one can be a follower of Christ without knowing the gospel or Christ himself, though they must know, have faith in, and obey the one God, our LORD or YHWH. I do not regard the Son of God as God.

If someone has faith in the one God (LORD) as Abraham did—before God revealed the gospel through His Son, the future Messiah—then that person can also attain true righteousness today. Whether this faith and obedience are genuine depends on God.

Simply being a good and civic person whose obedience aligns with Christ’s teachings, without knowledge and faith in His God, is insufficient and will never be considered “the least of my brethren.”

Therefore, the so-called Christian who follows false grace or “false hope theology” is in a worse position than the one with the righteousness of Abraham or David—one will live, the other will die.

From your discussion, two groups will enter the Kingdom, while the misguided group will not.

This thread is about the ways (plural) of God and his two standards of judgment. God goes easy on the humble and hard on the proud. As Paul says...notice the goodness and severity of God. Of course, many will see themselves under God's goodness and relegate all others to God's severity. But judgment is still pending and the jury has not come back with a verdict yet..

The ways of the Lord are always good...but just not for everyone involved.

Here is a verse that attests to that distinction. “The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.” Prov. 10:29

Interesting subject that latches into other important areas of scripture. Sounds like you love Paul's writings. Paul lived a life of Christ under dire and perilous conditions, which significantly shaped his writings and perspective, that to some are considered extreme and over-the-top.

People look for balance in Paul's writings in vain. Paul is ONLY speaking of the holiness walk by the Spirit...which most who follow Paul will never experience. No, one must look to Jesus and the WHOLE counsel of God to find a true and eternal balance...based on the ways of God.

The gospel is about a new and living way by the Spirit. You may see that as elitist....but it is God who is looking for a suitable Bride for His Son...and He can choose whom He wills.

My approach is to see the big picture..putting things into a balanced perspective that takes in the whole counsel of God. How i am viewed by a religious posturing in this depends on where a person is looking from. From whatever extreme they judge by, I seem to be on the other extreme....not realizing that there is such a thing as a proper balance. I am called both an inclusivist AND an exclusivist...whereas I am merely presenting both sides of the coin that the bible is presenting....a DOUBLE-edged sword.

If people can't see the two standards of God, how can they expect to understand how one is to grow in favour with God?

 

[JustMe]

This thread is about the ways (plural) of God and his two standards of judgment. God goes easy on the humble and hard on the proud. As Paul says...notice the goodness and severity of God. Of course, many will see themselves under God's goodness and relegate all others to God's severity. But judgment is still pending and the jury has not come back with a verdict yet..

The ways of the Lord are always good...but just not for everyone involved.

Here is a verse that attests to that distinction. “The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but destruction shall be to the workers of iniquity.” Prov. 10:29

People look for balance in Paul's writings in vain. Paul is ONLY speaking of the holiness walk by the Spirit...which most who follow Paul will never experience. No, one must look to Jesus and the WHOLE counsel of God to find a true and eternal balance...based on the ways of God.

The gospel is about a new and living way by the Spirit. You may see that as elitist....but it is God who is looking for a suitable Bride for His Son...and He can choose whom He wills.

My approach is to see the big picture..putting things into a balanced perspective that takes in the whole counsel of God. How i am viewed by a religious posturing in this depends on where a person is looking from. From whatever extreme they judge by, I seem to be on the other extreme....not realizing that there is such a thing as a proper balance. I am called both an inclusivist AND an exclusivist...whereas I am merely presenting both sides of the coin that the bible is presenting....a DOUBLE-edged sword.

If people can't see the two standards of God, how can they expect to understand how one is to grow in favour with God?

The Son will certainly judge those who have denied the truth and its virtue, using rationality and morality as fundamental criteria. During this judgment, by examining the hearts and minds of people, it will also uncover the elements of both humility and pride; and both will be presence, that is assured in varying degrees.

 

[Taken]

Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

Gods POWER is the Savior.
Gods POWER is the Destroyer.

Belief or Rejection…With or Without…
An individuals Destiny is NOT a mystery.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Episkopos]

Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

Gods POWER is the Savior.
Gods POWER is the Destroyer.

Belief or Rejection…With or Without…
An individuals Destiny is NOT a mystery.

Glory to God,
Taken

What about little things like God's mercy triumphing over judgment?