Is Jesus the Saviour of the whole World?

[JustMe]

That will be fine. I didn't really see anything that answered my question to you, though I see where you may not have been speaking of Jesus in terms of being God, rather, that you see Jesus as someone other than the OT "Angel of the LORD". Is that correct?

Though I still do wonder, do you believe Jesus to be God? A created being? Who do you say He is?

Much love!

So as new questions of your interest, no, Yeshua is not God, and yes, he's a created being by deliberate design as the 2nd Adam and agent purposed by his God and for our very salvation. There is no other basis or method to provide salvation for corrupted human kind by God, being as he is, using his qualities of mercy, justice and love.

 

[JLB]

Yes I do. Do you?

Much love!

Yes I do.

 

[marks]

So as new questions of your interest, no, Yeshua is not God, and yes, he's a created being by deliberate design as the 2nd Adam and agent purposed by his God and for our very salvation. There is no other basis or method to provide salvation for corrupted human kind by God, being as he is, using his qualities of mercy, justice and love.

Thank you for clarifying!

Much love!

 

[JLB]

Do you ever notice the words are always something short of "Person A is almighty God incarnate - while also 3 persons make up the person of almighty God, the F, S & HS, who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you don't believe it, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever?" The words suggest a mirror: Reflects. Manifests. The image of. Oher words suggest a container: Almighty God is IN Person A. Almighty God dwells in Person A. One plausible explanation for this use of language is because Person A is NOT almighty God incarnate.

• Do I believe George Washington is manifest in US quarters? Yes.
• Do I believe US quarters ARE George Washington. No.

See the difference?

Arguably more importantly, is the metaphysical importance of this conclusion. As a result of me concluding US quarter are NOT George Washington there is no loss of the honor due him, no diminishing his pre-eminence in America's founding, etc. There is no law stating one must take an oath that US quarters ARE George Washington in order to be a US citizen. The absence of such wording is telling.

This is not the case for Christ being a man - and only a man. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22 is most compelling, the guarantee of our own resurrection; "first fruits" mean like to follow. If Jesus is not a man - and only a man - then who is the first like us to guarantee our own resurrection?

My question comes directly from scripture.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

• God was manifested in the flesh

Do you believe God was manifested in the flesh?

 

[JLB]

I believe Christ was the first being God the Father created.

‘Please share the scripture that says God the Father created His Son.


God beget His only begotten Son.

 

[Wrangler]

Do you think it is an arbitrary choice by translators to sometimes use capital-LORD and other times use lowercase-Lord? Or do you suppose there is good reason for the translation decision?

@marks, did you answer these questions?

 

[Wrangler]

My question comes directly from scripture.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

• God was manifested in the flesh

Do you believe God was manifested in the flesh?

I just answered this in the post you replied to. I believe US quarters manifest George Washington. Do you believe US quarters ARE George Washington?

 

[Wrangler]

‘Please share the scripture that says God the Father created His Son.


God beget His only begotten Son.

Beget means create, specifically pro-create.

 

[marks]

Do you think it is an arbitrary choice by translators to sometimes use capital-LORD and other times use lowercase-Lord? Or do you suppose there is good reason for the translation decision?

Everybody has reasons for what they do.

Including you in not answering my question, and instead deflecting into this.

I’m willing to dabble but will soon be headed for the door, leave the thread.

You might as well then.

Much love!

 

[Beebster]

No Beebser....what I stated is what you posted.
Let's try again....

Good grief, why is it so hard to have an honest conversation on this board?

You did NOT state what I posted. You posted what I said, made an assumption, then made a statement based on YOUR assumption.
Nowhere in my posts will you find where I:

-stated that there are two Gods?

Those are your words not mine.

You're going to have to begin to understand and/or accept the Trinity.
UNLESS you want to create two Gods.

No, not two Gods just one.

By your logic though, can I assume you believe there are three Gods?

 

[Beebster]

‘Please share the scripture that says God the Father created His Son.


God beget His only begotten Son.

I will not because it would just get trampled on.
I'm not saying that to be mean or demeaning, it's just the truth.

I can guide you to it, but only Christ can open your eyes to see it.

First though, would you believe that Christ is still being created?

 

[JustMe]

My question comes directly from scripture.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16

• God was manifested in the flesh

Do you believe God was manifested in the flesh?

JLB, if I haven't warned you before, I will now. Have you truly examined every word of 1 Timothy 3:16 for its genuine meaning and within its context? For instance, the key to 1 Timothy 3:16 lies in part a. In your translation, you have "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:..."

So let's consider that.

There has been a significant mystery surrounding 'godliness.' Godliness here does not refer to a specific person but rather to a behavioral quality or characteristic of a person in relation to God, the Father.

This term comes from the Greek transliterated word "eusebeia." The English word 'godliness' doesn't fully capture its meaning, which is why some translations use terms like genuine pity, true reverence, or even holiness to describe 'eusebeia.'

The context of 1 Timothy 3:16 emphasizes that true eusebeia is based on a living, experiential relationship with or towards God, not just ritualistic or superficial behavior. Therefore, while "godliness" is a common translation, it may not fully reflect the original Greek focus on reverent awe and proper worship, especially when contrasted with empty religious practices.

As I mentioned earlier, the writing style here is poetic, moving line by line to describe the person of God. It clearly portrays a person who was seen and revealed as a human being possessing this true mysterious form of godliness, piety, and a genuine experiential relationship WITH GOD, rather than being God himself.

Besides being a man revealed on earth as a true human being, this man was also seen by angels. Since God constantly sees his angels, this would not be newsworthy, and it would not make sense to claim that this man was also God.

Furthermore, it says he was received up in glory—not God, as imagining that would be quite strange.

I will pause at "justified by the spirit." If this were truly God, why would God need to be justified by his own spirit? That would be illogical. The SON of God was surely justified by his Father's spirit.

Do you see why those who forged your beliefs tried unsuccessfully to portray God as a non-scriptural incarnate man and, in doing so, ended up undermining and nullifying the entire verse with nonsense?

Now, if you asked me whether God was manifested in the flesh outside the context of 1 Timothy 3:16, my answer would definitely be yes.

And why? Because God's Spirit, the Father's spirit, dwelled in the man Yeshua, the Son of God, at his anointing. This also addresses an important aspect of the mystery of godliness. God was literally present in his Son. But that does not make his Son God either. Like those unsuccessful forgers, you also do not believe that Yeshua's divine anointing by his Father was more than a sign and a blessing of pleasure and gladness. It meant there was an actual transformation within Yeshua—Emmanuel, literally God with us—in his Son!

I believe this is what 1 Timothy 3:16 intended, highlighting the mystery surrounding piety and true reverence. It was very difficult for people to understand and believe, as you and many others today do, that the Son of God possessed these godlike qualities as a real human man walking the earth, performing miracles, forgiving sins, and so forth. His Father was actively orchestrating and accomplishing all of this in real time with and through his Son.

So now, when you post the same query again, of "Do you believe God was manifested in the flesh?," in view of my explanation here, do you understand you cannot get a true genuine response without knowing the context it's framed in and its true meaning, and also your honest intent?

Hope this helps...

 

[JustMe]

‘Please share the scripture that says God the Father created His Son.


God beget His only begotten Son.

Pick me JLB, I can point you to the right place in scripture where the Father created his Son, if in fact you are truly interested. Fortunately for me and unfortunately for you, there is no scripture that points to the creation of an incarnate (double-existent being(s)-is that even possible in reality) Son, though.

 

[GodsGrace]

Good grief, why is it so hard to have an honest conversation on this board?

You did NOT state what I posted. You posted what I said, made an assumption, then made a statement based on YOUR assumption.
Nowhere in my posts will you find where I:

-stated that there are two Gods?

Those are your words not mine.



No, not two Gods just one.

By your logic though, can I assume you believe there are three Gods?

Your words Beebster.....create the CONCLUSION that there are two Gods.
If you don't want to accept this...it's OK with me.

Here's what the New Testament teaches:

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

Within that One God exists two other Persons.

Thus making:
ONE BEING
THREE PERSONS in that ONE BEING.

This is known as the Trinity and is what Christianity has accepted from the beginning of the Christian faith.

There are religions that do not believe in the Trinity...
for instance: The Jewish Religion and the Islamic Religion.

You could belong to one of those two if you do not believe in the Trinity.

However, Christians believe in the Trinity.

 

[JustMe]

Your words Beebster.....create the CONCLUSION that there are two Gods.
If you don't want to accept this...it's OK with me.

Here's what the New Testament teaches:

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

Within that One God exists two other Persons.

Thus making:
ONE BEING
THREE PERSONS in that ONE BEING.

This is known as the Trinity and is what Christianity has accepted from the beginning of the Christian faith.

There are religions that do not believe in the Trinity...
for instance: The Jewish Religion and the Islamic Religion.

You could belong to one of those two if you do not believe in the Trinity.

However, Christians believe in the Trinity.

Why do you waste virtual ink on the screen with petty accusations and wild imaginations?

'Beebster' can be urban slang for a person who makes animated facial expressions owning a pleasant personality.

And to the point, a Trinitarian Christian practices Trinitarianism. And the Bible does not teach this Theology. It is a mixture of philosophical thought grounded in mythological idol models dating back to Nimrod, and portions of the NT Bible

 

[Lambano]

Here's what the New Testament teaches:

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

Within that One God exists two other Persons.

Thus making:
ONE BEING
THREE PERSONS in that ONE BEING.

There is only one God.

There are three distinct Persons to whom Humanity shall relate to as "God".

Agreed?

 

[Episkopos]

Your words Beebster.....create the CONCLUSION that there are two Gods.
If you don't want to accept this...it's OK with me.

Here's what the New Testament teaches:

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD.

Within that One God exists two other Persons.

Thus making:
ONE BEING
THREE PERSONS in that ONE BEING.

Actually the bible teaches Two Persons in ONE Spirit...Father and Son. There are not 5 separate persons....or 3... just 2 (Elohim)
There is only ONE Holy Spirit....not a separate Spirit person apart from God who is God. God IS Spirit. And the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Christ are not separate .

The reason why man-made ecclesiastical authority requires a Spirit in name only is because men can't control the POWER of the Spirit. So the churches opted for a Spirit in name only....not in power or presence. So they could establish their own control while claiming to be doing it FOR God and in His name.

This is known as the Trinity and is what Christianity has accepted from the beginning of the Christian faith.

Not so. You are referring to the Roman government controlled council that established Christianity as a state religion.

Acceptance of a trinity is based on a cultural version of a religion...not a living faith. It's about having God in name only....not in power or in Presence.

There are religions that do not believe in the Trinity...
for instance: The Jewish Religion and the Islamic Religion.

You could belong to one of those two if you do not believe in the Trinity.

However, Christians believe in the Trinity.

Only cultural believers....those who listen to men above God...will parrot a doctrine that was invented due to a lack of power and presence of God's Spirit in the church. People want control....and religious control MUST deny the power of the Spirit to keep that control. Otherwise the power is out of the hands of ecclesiastical authorities... And people would rather follow other people than God...as proof to the popularity of Babylonian dogmatic religion.

The proof is the religious certainty that people exhibit without any basis in the scriptures.

 

[JLB]

First though, would you believe that Christ is still being created?

‘No.

The Son is not created. He is the Creator.

He creates and is creating everything according to the will of God the Father, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[JLB]

JLB, if I haven't warned you before, I will now. Have you truly examined every word of 1 Timothy 3:16 for its genuine meaning and within its context?

‘Yes.

And now it’s time for you to answer.


And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.
1 Timothy 3:16


Do you believe God was manifested in the flesh?


Yes or No?

 

[amigo de christo]

Beget means create, specifically pro-create.

So who pro created adam
Adam had no earthly father or mother .
Now its true the first adam failed .
BUT the creator of all that is DOES NOT FAIL .
HE would have to get the job done , FOR MAN , HIMSELF .
not by sending an angel , n ot by sending a mere man or mere prophet .
But by sending the WORD who was in the beginning and created all things
WHO was GOD . GOD did not clap his hands to create . HE SPOKE . JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD
and by HIM were all things created BY GOD . I h ope this helps my friend .