Is the church necessary for salvation?

[Marymog]

That's a stupid question, you can only be part of the Church if you are saved first. One must be saved before recognizing to which Body that they belong. In other words, what you believe defines where you belong. For, once you start denying the Gospel, that you are, by definition, outside or eliminated from being part of the Church. Where you abide has no bearing on your status in the Church, it's what you confess with your heart, mind and soul that dictates to which family that you belong.

If we are saved once we become part of the church then what else is there to do?

Or why do anything else since we are already saved?

 

[Marymog]

Is the church necessary for salvation?

The Church is necessary because it is the pillar and foundation of truth and decides who is to be treated as a pagan or tax collector

 

[Renniks]

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

Again, show me where it says it's the Roman Catholic church in view. It doesn't.

 

[Enoch111]

Is the church necessary for salvation?

Short answer: NO. But first one needs to be clear as to what he or she means by "the church". Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states:
816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268

So according to this statement, the Catholic Church is the only true church. But if this were true then no scandals would be associated with it.

According to Scripture the Church consists of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles, regardless of whether they are within the Catholic Church. And the existence of the Greek Orthodox Church alongside the RCC confirms that the RCC is not "the sole Church of Christ".

The Greek Orthodox Church defines the Church in a somewhat more biblical way:
"The Church of Jesus Christ is a unique entity comprising the Revealed Truths of the Christian religion. The Church, or rather the Church of the faithful, embodies the Christian faith, projects Christian hope, and gives life to Christian love. The Church was founded by the Lord Jesus Christ, Who remains in it forever as its Head. Christ entrusts His own Being to the Church, handing down divine Revelation, in oral form, and later recorded in written form, to constitute Tradition at large. The faithful, saints and sinners, assemble together under the Church's shelter to achieve repentance and forgiveness and to fortify the steadfastness of their will for the accomplishment of the Will of God. In this Church, the truth is preserved, proclaimed, and shared sacredly among the faithful. This Church is the divine Workshop for the teaching and sanctification of the faithful. It is the depository of truths for their redemption. There is nothing that contributes to the salvation of the faithful which is not contained in the Church's ministry, its diakonia. The Church is the whole strength of faithful and pious Christians. These people constitute the "royal priesthood" by their sanctification and dedication."

But what if a Christian is not a member of either of these churches? Does that exclude him or her from the Body of Christ? The answer is "No" since there were many churches since the first century which were not a part of either of these two major groups. And that is is true even today.

 

[DNB]

you are baptized into Christ thru his church

You have the cart before the horse.

 

[DNB]

If we are saved once we become part of the church then what else is there to do?

Or why do anything else since we are already saved?

Ok, so you said it yourself, once we are saved, we become part of the Church. The Church does not define who is saved, but rather, who is saved defines the Church.
You do get the concept, right?

 

[JunChosen]

(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

FALSE! The so-called church you speak of can never (have power) to save, for salvation belongs to God alone.

Consider the thief on the cross. was he a member of a church?

Yet, in front of our eyes, Scripture declares, as Jesus said: "today you shall be me in Paradise."

What about the publican? We read:
"And the publican standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes into heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner." Luke 18:13

AND THAT IS HOW WE COME TO GOD!

Not through a church!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Marymog]

Ok, so you said it yourself, once we are saved, we become part of the Church. The Church does not define who is saved, but rather, who is saved defines the Church.
You do get the concept, right?

I get the concept. I don’t see a answer:

If we are saved once we become part of the church then what else is there to do?

Or why do anything else since we are already saved?

 

[DNB]

I get the concept. I don’t see a answer:

If we are saved once we become part of the church then what else is there to do?

Or why do anything else since we are already saved?

Because one can lose their faith.

 

[Marymog]

Because one can lose their faith.

I agree. So that means one isn’t saved once they start believing. They have to continue to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. If they finish the race, they are saved.

So if they lose their faith they are no longer part of The Church.

 

[DNB]

I agree. So that means one isn’t saved once they start believing. They have to continue to work out their salvation with fear and trembling. If they finish the race, they are saved.

So if they lose their faith they are no longer part of The Church.

Yes, we agree. But, the question is, what does the Church have to do with any of this, ...absolutely nothing. If one is saved at a certain point in time, and you say, 'there's the Church', I would say that that depends on the individual, or individuals.
The church is simply wherever two are gathered in his name. Once one or both lose their faith, that Church is no more.
Marymog, for the hundredth time, there is no entity or body that has perpetually been defined as Christ's Church. All men must stand before God on their own, where you once belonged will have absolutely no merit on the Day of Judgement.

 

[marksman]

you negate scripture

How?

 

[theefaith]

Again, show me where it says it's the Roman Catholic church in view. It doesn't.

Universal (Catholic)
World universal

Lk 2:10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. ( catholic universal)

Lk 2:31 prepared before the face of all (catholic) people

Jn 1:29 lamb of God who takes way the sins of the world

Jn 3:16 for God so loved the world

1 Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:5 one mediator for all people

Jn 10:16 One new covenant church for all people

 

[theefaith]

Short answer: NO. But first one needs to be clear as to what he or she means by "the church". Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) states:
816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268

So according to this statement, the Catholic Church is the only true church. But if this were true then no scandals would be associated with it.

According to Scripture the Church consists of all redeemed Jews and Gentiles, regardless of whether they are within the Catholic Church. And the existence of the Greek Orthodox Church alongside the RCC confirms that the RCC is not "the sole Church of Christ".

The Greek Orthodox Church defines the Church in a somewhat more biblical way:
"The Church of Jesus Christ is a unique entity comprising the Revealed Truths of the Christian religion. The Church, or rather the Church of the faithful, embodies the Christian faith, projects Christian hope, and gives life to Christian love. The Church was founded by the Lord Jesus Christ, Who remains in it forever as its Head. Christ entrusts His own Being to the Church, handing down divine Revelation, in oral form, and later recorded in written form, to constitute Tradition at large. The faithful, saints and sinners, assemble together under the Church's shelter to achieve repentance and forgiveness and to fortify the steadfastness of their will for the accomplishment of the Will of God. In this Church, the truth is preserved, proclaimed, and shared sacredly among the faithful. This Church is the divine Workshop for the teaching and sanctification of the faithful. It is the depository of truths for their redemption. There is nothing that contributes to the salvation of the faithful which is not contained in the Church's ministry, its diakonia. The Church is the whole strength of faithful and pious Christians. These people constitute the "royal priesthood" by their sanctification and dedication."

But what if a Christian is not a member of either of these churches? Does that exclude him or her from the Body of Christ? The answer is "No" since there were many churches since the first century which were not a part of either of these two major groups. And that is is true even today.

sorry but I don’t accept the CCC

try scripture
The ark was a type of the church!
Was the ark necessary to keep from drowning?

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

 

[theefaith]

You have the cart before the horse.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[tsr]

Many Christians today have the wrong idea of what being saved and then going to church means. Many think that in order to be saved, they have to have perfect attendance at a church and be very active in it. Some even think that if they don't go to church, they have backslidden or even abandoned the faith.
The Bible clearly says that salvation is by grace through faith (see Ephesians 2:8-9). Our actions or any denominational affiliation doesn't save us – only the finished atoning work of Christ does (see Acts 4:12)
So where does church come in now? Friends, we have fellowship with other believers because we are fellow believers who are one with Christ and therefore one with each other (see Hebrews 10:25). We don't see each other to be saved; rather we remind each other of the salvation that only Christ can give and did give to us - we build each other up and in doing so, build up Christ's body. We don't worship to be saved; we worship our Savior in gratitude to His saving work.

 

[theefaith]

FALSE! The so-called church you speak of can never (have power) to save, for salvation belongs to God alone.

Consider the thief on the cross. was he a member of a church?

Yet, in front of our eyes, Scripture declares, as Jesus said: "today you shall be me in Paradise."

What about the publican? We read:
"And the publican standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes into heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner." Luke 18:13

AND THAT IS HOW WE COME TO GOD!

Not through a church!

To God Be The Glory

the church was not official until Pentecost, baptism not a requirement until the death of the savior
Show me ”faith alone” in scripture

Christ and his church are one act 22:9

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20

 

[theefaith]

FALSE! The so-called church you speak of can never (have power) to save, for salvation belongs to God alone.

Consider the thief on the cross. was he a member of a church?

Yet, in front of our eyes, Scripture declares, as Jesus said: "today you shall be me in Paradise."

What about the publican? We read:
"And the publican standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes into heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner." Luke 18:13

AND THAT IS HOW WE COME TO GOD!

Not through a church!

To God Be The Glory

the ark is a type of the church

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

 

[Marymog]

Yes, we agree. But, the question is, what does the Church have to do with any of this, ...absolutely nothing.....

Ummmmm.....Scripture disagrees with you. Scripture says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth and that we are to go to The Church to settle our differnces and if we refuse to listen to The Church we are to be treated as a pagan or tax collector (kicked out of the Church). Sooooo that is what The Church has to do with this. You deny The Church and its authority clearly spoken of in Scripture.....I accept it's authority!

Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor,

tend the flock of God that is in your charge, exercising the oversight,

 

[Marymog]

The church is simply wherever two are gathered in his name. ....

I can't find that in Scripture. Can you quote it for me please?