is the emphasis on teaching the word damming our souls?

[williemac]

Yes, we all agree that if one teaches falsehood that it is unprofitable. How then does one teach truth? This is the question. I say we arrive at truth through the spirit teaching it to us others say that they arrive at truth through sound hermuntical pricples. I think both can be correct but the Spirit must always be in the lead and be able to correct us. Again, it all comes down to knowing the voice of God for yourself and being in submission to His will.

You have got to be kidding! Paul told Timothy that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness. (2Tim.3:16) Furthermore, he told the Ephesians (4:11) that God gave SOME to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors, and some teachers, for the equipping of the saints (everyone else) for the work of the ministry. You will note they were all given for a common goal; to equip others for ministry.

On this note, I suggest you check out Timothy, whom Paul called an evangelist (2Tim.4:5). It happens that the word "doctrine" is found more times in the two letters to Timothy than all the rest of the bible put together. I conclude that an evangelist is not a soul winner as most believe, but rather, one who is called to understand and teach doctrine to the church, as Paul exorted Timothy to do.
Here is the point; not all saints are gifted the same. A real dilema in today's churches is that many are out of their calling.
There are consequently many problems in coming to universal agreement conerning God's word and Truth. Websites such as this rests my case. But I sincerely suggest that God is not calling His children to forsake their assembling together.

This is more a matter of prayer and intercession on behalf of the body, than a matter of everyone being left to their own devices and limitations. There are plenty of Spirit filled believers in the world and yet we do not all have equal understanding or opinion on all points of truth. I feel you over simplify the solution by your conclusion, which was as follows: (Again, it all comes down to knowing the voice of God for yourself and being in submission to His will.)

FYI, it is the wolf who scatters the sheep. Be careful.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

The gift ministries were given "until." Just when do you expect that to take place and how?

And no, I am not kidding, I am very serious.

 

[Alanforchrist]

The gift ministries were given "until." Just when do you expect that to take place and how?

And no, I am not kidding, I am very serious.

The Ministry gifts were given until we are all edified, perfected, all in unity, knowledge of Jesus, And just like Jesus.
Eph 4: 11--13.
And the Church isn't there yet, So WE Jesus given, God set Bible Ministers still have to do what we are Anointed to do.
And a God given Teacher will be a blessing to the body of Christ, Not legalism which kills the spirit.

 

[teamventure]

so the OP believes that teaching the word of God leads to legalism.. sigh, the war wages on.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

The gift ministries were given until the perfecting of the saints. When the body of Christ comes into the fullness and stature of Jesus the leadership of God's church will diminish just as John did.

Legalism kills. It destroyed the nation of Israel. Why, because it is man eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Let me give you an example.

The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. What does that mean? It means that the day of rest was meant to be a blessing to those who kept it. It was not meant to be a day when men go hungry. Yet the legalists, who did not know the heart of their Father, criticized hungry men from taking a bit of corn, rolling it, and eating. That is what Legalism does to people. It makes them hungry because it does not allow them to fill their souls. Legalism only cares about doctrine. It only cares about making men submit to their doctrine. Better to kill the body so that the eternal soul might be saved (or so the inquisitors used to say.) People so infected because heartless and judge others who are free.

I feel badly for legalists. I used to be one. I know what it does to your soul and how you beat yourself up and never feel good enough. You don’t want to be that way but you are trapped in a doctrinal prison of your own making and do not believe that God can love you if you are not perfect. It is a miserable life and it takes experiencing God's love to break out of it.

 

[teamventure]

so how do we deal with legalism Justin? do we throw the baby out with the bathwater and no longer look to the word of God in scripture?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

The only way to deal with Legalism is through direct experience with God. Only after we have experienced God should we venture to say "this is that."

 

[Rex]

There he goes again with that wide paint brush
That could mean 10,000 different things
or 10,000 different gods take your pick

 

[teamventure]

where in scripture does it say that experience is more important than scripture?
as a side note, i don't even know why i am discussing with you since you
stated that Jesus isn't God.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Petere 1:21

Jesus was not born God and is not the second person of the trinity. However, when he was filled with all the fulness of God at His baptism you could not distinquish between Him and God. I was quite clear about that.

 

[teamventure]

if you don't believe that Jesus was God at his birth then why are you posting in a christian message board that holds his deity as a central doctrine?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

I think Jesus is God. Just not at His birth. Why are you posting here? Do agree with everything they believe?

 

[aspen]

I think this is a much needed thread. I understand BAs concerns about anti-intellectualism, but I see the majority of churches swinging in the other direction. I attend a Protestant church every Sunday, and I enjoy the teaching, but I also see many in the congregation either getting fixated on the minor details of the sermon or getting lost in the scholarship. The great thing about the church is that they balance the service with a vibrant 45 minute worship portion, without tying it to second baptism doctrine.

 

[teamventure]

I think Jesus is God. Just not at His birth. Why are you posting here? Do agree with everything they believe?

no i just believe the word. and i'm not trying to attack you so i hope you don't see it that way.
much peace.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Team,

I can see that your heart is in the right place and I don't feel attacked. You are very honest and I pray that god continue to bless you.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[teamventure]

thanks Justin.

God Bless

 

[Spirit Covenant]

Hi All,

I believe that it is a deception that Christian ministers have that teaching is the answer. I think most of the time intensive teaching leads to legalism which kills the spirit. There is no need to steer the ship if it is not moving. First, find the wind of the Holy Spirit and only after that...teach about what is currently happening. Most everything else is just mans programs.

Knowledge of God is not holiness.

1 Corinthians 2
4And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Amen

 

[marksman]

Define "church". Many many believers live and die according to the Words in that Book. Whether or not someone does or does not ignore truth and knowledge does not determine the nature of that truth and knowledge. To think otherwise is a logical fallacy.

You will have to forgive me but I cannot see where that was the question I was asking.

So . . . which is more useful towards knowing God? What He says about Himself? Or your own opinions?

I am not sure what the point of your question is in relation to my question.

Your vaguely worded question doesn't really specify much here, so there's not much of an answer that can be given.

To explain. Some denominations have a set reading programme that is used in every Sunday morning meeting in every church all over the country. Is it relevant to everyone? Probably not. Is it relevant to most? Probably not. Is it given to advance the church, the denomination or the kingdom of God? Does it perpetuate the idea that if I fulfil my obligations on Sunday morning I will be all right.

Then there is the teaching that comes from a person who has their position and authority from the denomination, but not from God. Is what he gives teaching or his own personal views about the bible?

Then there is the person with a calling from God to teach the word with signs following. If he doesn't get a rheema word, he has nothing to say.

There is an idea that if get up into the pulpit I have done my job and if I have the authority to get into the pulpit, then what I say must be right.

I have seen all these scenarios in operation, so which one is teaching?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

I like this one,

"Then there is the person with a calling from God to teach the word with signs following. If he doesn't get a rheema word, he has nothing to say."