is the emphasis on teaching the word damming our souls?

[veteran]

Dear V,

You can proclaim this or that all day long but the fact remains that people who go about trying to figure out the scriptures just through their natural minds usually miss the mark and end up as legalists. Many pastors and teachers are exactly as I have discribed them.

More hot air claims with no basis in reality, that's all you're saying there.

Still, I'm going to let you know just why... it's important to not have that kind of view about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

It's because that tree in the midst of the Garden does NOT represent Christ Jesus. It instead represents Satan himself and his ways. That's why he tricked Adam and Eve into partaking of it, with the false deception that it would make one become a god. How many Bible examples did our Heavenly Father give in His Word about those who sought to be their own 'god', exalting themselves above Him? And how did those men who did that wind up?

Likewise for today, with occultists and Satan worshippers that seek to become their own little 'gods' by trying to do an end-around our Heavenly Father and His Son, what ancient concept are they actually following? the very same temptation to become gods that Satan used the tree of the knowledge of good and evil to tempt Adam and Eve in God's Garden. That's why that tree in the midst represents Satan himself, because God originally created Satan as a good cherub, but he became evil.

As a Christian, I really don't think you intend to partake of that kind of thing, and you've obviously thought that tree represented just knowledge in general. It doesn't. It represent rebellion directly against our Heavenly Father and His Son.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil means exactly what it says...good and evil. What part of knowledge do you feel excapes that definition?

My assesment of ministers is actually based upon a lot of experience dealing with them.

 

[veteran]

Dear V,

The tree of the knowledge of good and evil means exactly what it says...good and evil. What part of knowledge do you feel excapes that definition?

My assesment of ministers is actually based upon a lot of experience dealing with them.

You might want to study Ezekiel 31 deeper, for God uses the symbol of a tree to represent certain ones, even Satan himself.

You're not into that Sefer Yetzirah and symbolic mystic tree of life stuff are you?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

I tend to see the Bible as very literal unless there is a real reason to view it differently. I believe there were two literal trees and one granted life if you ate it's fruit and one brought death if you ate it's fruit. However, it was not the fruit itself that brought death but rather the separation from God that resulted in the gradual aging of Adam and Eve. Perhaps I am wrong but I can't see my way clear to think that God allowed a poisons tree to exist in a perfect place.

I understand the symbolism of the verse you are referencing. However, I don't think you can take those and apply them to Eden.

 

[veteran]

Dear V,

I tend to see the Bible as very literal unless there is a real reason to view it differently. I believe there were two literal trees and one granted life if you ate it's fruit and one brought death if you ate it's fruit. However, it was not the fruit itself that brought death but rather the separation from God that resulted in the gradual aging of Adam and Eve. Perhaps I am wrong but I can't see my way clear to think that God allowed a poisons tree to exist in a perfect place.

I understand the symbolism of the verse you are referencing. However, I don't think you can take those and apply them to Eden.

If you'll notice in Genesis 3, eating from the tree in the midst of the Garden brought 'death', not Life. That should be your first clue that it is not merely about the idea of knowledge in general, but a specific type of knowledge that will cause one to perish in final in the "lake of fire" with Satan and his host.

Our Heavenly Father is not against the idea of knowledge and understanding in general; He is against a specific type of knowledge that false tree in the midst of the Garden represent. What type am I talking about?

Knowledge like the Sepher Yetzirah and Kabbalistic Mysticism is an example of that type of knowledge from Satan's tree. That system of mysticism even nicknames the path of progressive spiritual enlightening it promotes as the 'tree of life'! But that kind of knowledge is not the tree of life in God's Garden which can only be awarded through Christ Jesus with eternal life.

When Eve was deceived by the serpent to eat from the false tree in the midst of the Garden, it involved disobeying God's commandment to Not eat from it, as per His direct warning it would cause death. So what is it you don't understand of why... He said it would cause death? Those symbols like eating fruit from that tree are symbols for this deeper matter of just what kind of knowledge that "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" represents. It represents Satan's ways in contrast to God's Ways.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

There needs to be a balance of Spirit and Truth(John 4:24). We need the Truth which is the seed and through the seed will we in Christ grow into a tree bearing fruit. Yet if you only have the seed (Word of Truth) and do not have the water to help nourish the seed which is the Holy Spirit then the seed(word of truth) will die and the water(Holy Spirit) will be useless. We need to teach the word which is the seed and allow the Holy Spirit to water and nourish that seed of the word. For the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and leads into all truth.(John 16:13). For the letter alone kills but the Holy Spirit gives life (2 Corinthians 3:6). They work together. So many churches have only the letter and many of them are dead and dying. While on the other hand many churches are full of the Holy Spirit yet are drowning themselves and lack the word of truth. We need a proper balance of the two! God is His Word and His Spirit!

Perfect truth! We must have both the fire( Holy Spirit) and the sWord of the Spirit (the Word) all working together in us to burn away that old flesh man to get to the marrow which is where our DNA is to transform us into the children of God.
Heb 4:12
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV
Heb 1:7
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
KJV

We are to allow the Spirit to wash us with the water of the Word to cleanse our corruptible bodies by clothing us in Christ the Light of the world.... The living Word of Life.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

There is an over reliance on teaching in the church today. What needs to happen is that we must first experience God and then teach about that experience in the light of scripture (not doctrine.) Right now, most of the church puts the cart before the horse.

 

[teamventure]

on the contrary. there needs to be more teaching of the word of God. and many of these experiences people say is the holy spirit is actually another spirit.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

Teaching from whom? Those who have or have not experienced these types of things?

If teaching was all that and a bag of chips why is the church generally in such dismal shape? Rather than being drawn to the church the world mocks us as hypocrites. Do you really believe we should do even more of what is obviously not working very well? I have heard it said that if you find yourself in a hole you should stop digging.

Was the first century church started by teaching or through experience?

Blessings,

Justin

 

[KingJ]

Dear All,

There is an over reliance on teaching in the church today. What needs to happen is that we must first experience God and then teach about that experience in the light of scripture (not doctrine.) Right now, most of the church puts the cart before the horse.

No Justin, you have the cart before the horse.

Romans 10:17 ''So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God''.

John 14:26 ''But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you''.

The problem is people who, like the devil, run down, construe and add to scripture! Opting rather for theories, opinions and assumptions. How can preaching from scripture to someone be bad when scripture POINTS to Jesus!? John 5:39.

I would re-phrase your statement to say 'preach correctly from scripture and encourage people to open up their hearts to the author''. Many today are like the pharisees, sure, but what you are proposing is an extreme case of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Jk,

We have had supposedly correct preaching from the scripture for many centuries. My point is that we are being taught to death and there is little benefit we are receiving from the explosion of biblical knowledge that we are gagging on. First we must meet God and experience Him and only then is it proper to teach about Him.

There are two ways to preach from the scripture. One is as you are spirit led to do so and that brings life. The other is through you intellect and that brings about death. The problem with most people is that a great deal of the preaching we hear from church pulpits is of the latter persuasion. Here is a truth,

"People cannot be taught into the fullness and stature of Christ because that is not how He, Himself, obtained it." ​

Christ became the Messiah through yielding to His Fathers Spirit and not through the teachings of the Pharisees.

Teaching has failed because, much of the time, it engages the mind rather than our spirits Help people to come into the presence of God and then they will naturally do the things contained in the word that He wrote. You will not have to teach them then...the will seek His face daily themselves.

 

[marksman]

what exactly do you prophecy?

Whatever God tells me to and the word is prophesy, not prophecy.

and yes, I know God not just about him.

Did I say you didn't?

prayer is a way to experience God am i right?

I certainly experience God in prayer but I know a lot don't as it is just a ritual to be performed because that is what the denomination requires.

listening to the holy spirit sounds like the way to experience God as apposed to chasing signs and wonders marksman. but you're welcome to try and change my mind.

I have no interest in changing your mind because it looks to me as it would be a waste of time, judging by this rather "superior" comment.

marksman, your silence speaks volumes on the issue.

I think the scripture says In quietness and confidence will be your strength or something similar. You might like to try it sometime.

In my study of the church worldwide, I notice that those who experience the word seem to be producing the goods.

Very noticeable is Africa and India. Some young evangelist were visiting a village to preach the gospel. A family has just seem their youngest die. The witch doctor had not been able to do anything for the baby. The parents said to the evangelists "if your god can bring my baby back to life, we will believe in your god."

They in fear and trepidation started to pray for the baby to be raised from the dead. This was the first time they had ever done this sort of thing. In a short space of time, the baby started breathing again to the total joy of the parents. They honoured their word and gave up their spiritualist beliefs and embraced the one true God. So did most of the village, much to the witch doctor's dismay.

Faith without works is dead. This example shows that faith with works...well, is alive.

 

[veteran]

Dear All,

There is an over reliance on teaching in the church today. What needs to happen is that we must first experience God and then teach about that experience in the light of scripture (not doctrine.) Right now, most of the church puts the cart before the horse.

Things are just the opposite of what you say. There is an UNDER-RELIANCE on real Bible teaching straight from God's Word line upon line. And because of that many don't really know HOW to properly relate to our Heavenly Father and His Son.

What you appear to be preaching is the 'manifestation' stuff, writhing in the floor, shaking uncontrollably, repetitious leadings to produce mystical experiences that are NOT of The Holy Spirit.

The true manifestations of The Holy Spirit are what those like Apostle Paul showed they are ACCORDING TO BIBLE SCRIPTURE. And in all cases it was about SELF-CONTROL.

 

[marksman]

What you appear to be preaching is the 'manifestation' stuff, writhing in the floor, shaking uncontrollably, repetitious leadings to produce mystical experiences that are NOT of The Holy Spirit.

How do you know? Were you there?

 

[teamventure]

if it smells like a fish it's a fish.
and marksman, the manifestations veteran was describing sounds like Satan.
open your eyes.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

We do not need ""better sameness" because that has not produced what it promised. Teachers have failed to deliver and they have the audacity to say let's do more of it? When someone fails at the job they were hired for you let them go. What really needs to be done is to simply fire the church leadership and concentrate on restoring direct communication between God and His people as individuals. Frankly, I think a lot of people are tired of having "leaders" stand in-between them and God telling them what they can and cannot believe. I say away with them and let God give us leaders after His own heart that do not hinder but actually lead the sheep beside still waters and into green pastures where they can feed on the Spirit.

You do not have to be taught how to "properly relate" to God you simply need to experience God and it will be abundantly clear what He wants. What is properly relate anyway? Sounds like some text book term used by a theologian that knows his books better than he knows God.

The only way to properly relate to God is to listen to what He says (in whatever way He says it) and then do His will to the best of your ability. This can be done by anyone, anywhere, anytime.

 

[veteran]

Dear V,

We do not need ""better sameness" because that has not produced what it promised. Teachers have failed to deliver and they have the audacity to say let's do more of it? When someone fails at the job they were hired for you let them go. What really needs to be done is to simply fire the church leadership and concentrate on restoring direct communication between God and His people as individuals. Frankly, I think a lot of people are tired of having "leaders" stand in-between them and God telling them what they can and cannot believe. I say away with them and let God give us leaders after His own heart that do not hinder but actually lead the sheep beside still waters and into green pastures where they can feed on the Spirit.

You do not have to be taught how to "properly relate" to God you simply need to experience God and it will be abundantly clear what He wants. What is properly relate anyway? Sounds like some text book term used by a theologian that knows his books better than he knows God.

The only way to properly relate to God is to listen to what He says (in whatever way He says it) and then do His will to the best of your ability. This can be done by anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Where did you get your 'mystical' training, since you apparently believe unduliating uncontrollable shaking of the body, writhing in the floor, laughing uncontrollably, are from The Holy Spirit?

The idea you're pushing is New World Order stuff, not something from our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.

It's the NWO's aim to JOIN all the world's religions TOGETHER under a ONE-WORLD RELIGION. And very soon in our near future I suspect... that this FALSE KUNDALINI movement springing up among some Churches is going to be heralded as proof that The One GOD is the SAME for ALL... the world's religions. I mean He must be... since that Kundalini spirit can be verified happening to the PAGANS also! Afterall, it's The Holy Spirit by any other name and "in whatever way He says it"!

In the past decade quite a few Christian Churches and Christian organizational systems have invited representatives from PAGAN religions into their Church service to teach CHRISTIANS how to do oriental transcendental meditation, pray using oriental MANTRAS (incantations), etc. In one Christian Church in Chicago three Buddhist monks were doing mantra incantations in FRONT of the Communion Table of Christ!


http://www.uuchicago.org/
"Singing Meditation is an interfaith spiritual practice that combines singing—of many types—with group observation of silence. Combining the two practices results in a synergy that enhances each component. The songs in Singing Meditation are deliberately chosen to be easy to learn. Not all of the songs used in Singing Meditation are slow and contemplative. Many are high-energy and joyful. The singing part of “Singing Meditation” includes a variety of vocalizations: toning, chanting, singing in rounds, singing in harmony and mantras. The repertoire is interfaith: Jewish, Christian, Sufi, earth-based, Hindu, Buddhist, and others.

The goal of Singing Meditation is to help the participants reach a place inside themselves where they can connect with the Divine, their Inner Core, the Spirit of Life."

That working is nothing more than oriental transcendental meditation and chanting.

 

[Rex]

You do not have to be taught how to "properly relate" to God you simply need to experience God and it will be abundantly clear what He wants. What is properly relate anyway? Sounds like some text book term used by a theologian that knows his books better than he knows God.

The only way to properly relate to God is to listen to what He says (in whatever way He says it) and then do His will to the best of your ability. This can be done by anyone, anywhere, anytime.

More than that, this stinks so much like the garden temptation it is one in the same.

Has God really said? First the separation of man from the word of God.

God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God.

Forsake the word of God and venture out "You will not surly die" Gen 3:4 or Matthew 4:4

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear V,

I have not even heard of the things you are talking about.

What I speak is just plain scripture. You know...when you seek God and He starts to show you things from His perspective scriptures come alive and questions you have had start to clear up. You cannot see, not because you cannot understand, but because your eyes are closed to His Spirit. .

 

[veteran]

Dear V,

I have not even heard of the things you are talking about.

What I speak is just plain scripture. You know...when you seek God and He starts to show you things from His perspective scriptures come alive and questions you have had start to clear up. You cannot see, not because you cannot understand, but because your eyes are closed to His Spirit. .

You truly may not intend the message you're pushing to come across like I've said, but nevertheless, what I said is where it's coming from.

When we look at the tongues matter per God's Word He shows us one thing, and the unrecognizable unknown tongue manifestation shows another, the two not agreeing. Then simply, there are those who choose to disregard what God's Word shows about it, and then there are those of us who do not.

Those other manifestations are of the same situation. Just because they are novel and miraculous does NOT mean to automatically start claiming they are of The Holy Spirit.

These kind of things, especially for the last days, serve as tests upon us that God allows. It is one of the ways... He is going to do some pruning within His Church of those who refuse to listen to Him within His Word. This is why Apostle Paul admonished us to study to show ourselves approved of God, a workman that need NOT be ashamed, rightly dividing The Word of Truth (2 Tim.2:15).