Is the Logos meaningful, or meaningless? - Depends on your view of Logos.

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Lambano

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What was the Logos before the Logos became flesh?

22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
(Proverbs 8:22-31)

And the λόγος became flesh and dwelt among us.
 
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St. SteVen

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Jesus was not the logos (of God) as you describe it.
Sorry I wasn't clear.
The rest of your post indicates that we are in agreement.
Unless I am overlooking something. (send help)

Quite impossible in practical terms and via its grammar and meaning. Unless one wants to be creative or ignorant and bend reality and throw God, Jesus and logos all together, into the sci-fi realm.

The logos (of God) became human or flesh, indeed. Meaning, the logos of God became (took on) a human face. And therefore it (logos -- thoughts, ideas etc.,) was/were expressed as, and through a human being we call Jesus. He was the perfect imagine/epitomy of God and we we saw his glory....

He became the logos of God after his Father's logos was embedded within him....since his birth then much more with power, after his baptism....and today, the image of the logos of God indeed.
Agree.

/
 

Lambano

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We were required to take a certain number of Humanities credits in college, so I thought I'd take a course in Western Philosophy. Western Philosophy pretty much started with the Greeks, so the first reading assignment was Plato. Our prof told us, "Some of you will read this and say, 'Oh, wow, this is really deep stuff'. And some of you will read this and say, 'This is the biggest pile of bulls*** I've ever read in my life'. Buy me a beer when the semester is over, and I'll tell you what I really think." I tried to read the assignment and found myself in the latter camp and dropped the course. My only regret is that I didn't have a chance to buy that professor a beer.

I also never did get a chance to study Heraclitus or Philo, but my understanding is that the λόγος is that חָכְמָה (Wisdom) that provides order to Creation.

Does "order" imply "meaning"? I'll have to think about that one.
 
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Behold

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Does "order" imply "meaning"? I'll have to think about that one.

Divine Order, that is found in Nature, proves the existence of God.

Also, the fact of creation, proves creation, which proves : A Creator.

Why?

Because you can't have creation, without a creator.

A book can't write itself.
A painting can't paint itself.
The universe and all of creation, didn't create itself.
 

St. SteVen

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22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
(Proverbs 8:22-31)

And the λόγος became flesh and dwelt among us.
Amazing. Thanks.
What do you make of this?
Solomon speaking prophetically, it seems. ???

/
 
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St. SteVen

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Does "order" imply "meaning"? I'll have to think about that one.
What would creation be without order? Chaos?
Does chaos imply meaning?

When I asked my child to clean their bedroom, I checked in later to see if there was any progress.
What I found was chaos. I guess I knew what that meant. - LOL

/
 
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Lambano

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What do you make of this?
Solomon speaking prophetically, it seems. ???
Could be. (Translation: "I think so".)

But Solomon himself also struggled to find Meaning in his life; see Ecclesiastes (but don't read it if you're feeling depressed):

“Meaningless! Meaningless!”
says the Teacher.
“Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.”
 
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APAK

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Agree. The body/flesh/sarx of Jesus came from the logos of God. But not the spirit of Jesus. It did not come from the logos.

"God is spirit". The father, the word/logos and the Holy Spirit were spirit.

The logos gave up equality with God, as spirit, and became the incarnate Word which had been spirit.

PHI 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form (pre-incarnate spirit) of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form (carnal flesh) of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death (bodily, his spirit went to Father),



COL 1:15 Who is the image (bodily) of the invisible God (spirit), the firstborn of every creature:
Was not expecting this type of response. I thought my cover was already blown....;)

I don't believe your understanding of kenosis in Phi 2:6-7 is what scripture had in mind. He was a humble servant and yielded his will over to his Father, emptied himself of his own desires. He learned this as he grew and matured to become truly the Son of God.

Thanks for your post.
 
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Hillsage

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KJV JOH 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth/"gives life"; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words/rhema that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

So just exactly what "the spirit" above, are we looking at?

It is not capitalized in the KJV, RSV, YLT
But it is capitalized in the NKJ,NAS, NIV

So, does anyone want to defend their particular 'infallible bible translation'.....to speak from "the spirit", and give 'quickening' "life" to us? And not just speak from "flesh" minded words amounting to "nothing"?

I know I'm curious to know 'the answer'....for myself.
 
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Behold

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So, does anyone want to defend their particular 'infallible bible translation'.....to speak from "the spirit",


""""For I know that through your prayers and the help of the Spirit of Jesus Christ this will turn out for my deliverance""

""""And after they came to Mysia, they were trying to go into Bithynia, and the Spirit of Jesus did not permit them"""

""""And because you Gentiles have become his children, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, and now you can call God your dear Father""

""""Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ (The Holy Spirit) does not belong to him.""

"""""Now the Lord is that = Spirit, (The Holy Spirit) and where the Spirit of the Lord is, (The Holy Spirit).... there is freedom."""""
 
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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
What do you make of this?
Solomon speaking prophetically, it seems. ???
Could be. (Translation: "I think so".)
Amazing how it appears in the middle of chapter eight.
It tracks with John chapter one and Genesis chapter one and the life and mission of Christ.
And then returns to the regularly scheduled proverbs. - LOL
Say what?

Thanks again for pointing this out for us.

/
 
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